Rocky

What a wonderful sentiment... the verse in Proverbs, that is. I've been listening to Brene Brown on youtube lately. She's a research professor who studies shame and vulnerability. Is it ever too late in a person's life to learn to be vulnerable? Can one actually minister powerfully if that person is not willing to be vulnerable?

Amen and AMEN! ... for all the reasons you mentioned.

Or maybe it's just a WAG... as someone used to say (was it Raf?) or maybe it's just egregious hyperbole used for self-aggrandizement.

Translated into English, "I wasn't interested in what you had to say, so I will condescendingly dismiss it out of hand rather than asking for clarification."

The more I think about it, the more I can't help but conclude that trying to get people to stop venting about spiritual abuse that the person has been subjected to -- by reciting either bible verses or a gentle preacher from two centuries ago -- completely glosses over the validation of the person. You know, the "believer" who has been expected to behave in a certain way by "leadership." That's simply a continuation of self-justifying rationalizations, the pattern for which was set in our minds by vpee. It was vpee who prolifically used bible verses to rationalize his lockbox theology, which empowered his lascivious lifestyle of alcoholism, sexual predation, conning money out of hardworking people who had to live with other people just to make ends meet, and oh, yes, expecting adulation whenever and wherever he went to teach da verd. Jon Touchstone, that entire scheme repulses me and has for a long time.

As has been stated/asked by others... what's your point? Other than telling DWBH to STFU? And what if those who aren't interested -- in any longer delegating our responsibility to critically analyze -- just continue to analyze and expound? Pedantic indeed. And devoid of anything meaningful... Bible verses don't make for valid arguments, generally. That's also not what I understood their purpose (of the bible verses) to be anyway.

That seems to be a dubious assumption.

Prove all things, hold fast that which is good... ? Come on, who is really suggesting we again, 40 years after some of us first delegated our right to critically analyze all things religion to a con man, that we continue on the path of deception based on the entertainment value of jalvis and his partners in crime? Perhaps there is wisdom we (or anyone so inclined) can glean from the writings of William Channing, but I'm not so sure it's a fitting admonition for addressing the tone of this thread. "In opposition to traditional American Calvinist orthodoxy, Channing preferred a gentle, loving relationship with God." The subject of this thread isn't, and please excuse me if I'm wrong, about a relationship with God.

Even if celebrants was used, it still would be in passive voice. News stories generally are not written that way... by anyone who has taken any journalism classes, anyway. Well, your comment is up right now, but I doubt it will be up there past 8:30 am Ohio time.

Byline = "Staff Report" That's because nobody wanted to put their own name on the "article" which was really just a posting of a press release. Real journalists don't say "Over 1.500 celebrators gathered..." They say, "more than x,xxx number of Way followers celebrated..."

All religions are equally sublime to the ignorant, useful to the politician, and ridiculous to the philosopher. Lucretius

Preach it, brother!

Sounds to me like brazen propaganda and indoctrination.

Are you suggesting vpee was a whited sepulchre? Well, let me do more than suggest it. Yeah, I think it's pretty obvious that he was. Boo-YAH! Nailed it.

Indeed...

And it is abominably fallacious magical thinking and complete bulls*it.

Well, I watched an intriguing (and perhaps a bit subversive) documentary this weekend, The Lottery of Birth. A quote put up in a graphic in the movie caught my attention and made me think of this thread. Passive acceptance of the teacher's wisdom is easy to most boys and girls. It involves no effort of independent thought, and seems rational because the teacher knows more than his pupils; it is moreover the way to win the favour of the teacher unless he is a very exceptional man. Yet the habit of passive acceptance is a disastrous one in later life. It causes man to seek and to accept a leader, and to accept as a leader whoever is established in that position. -- Bertrand Russell, British author, mathematician, & philosopher (1872 - 1970) I wonder to what extent that insight makes/made us susceptible to cults. I suspect the answer is -- to a great extent. The next question becomes, what would it take to counter that susceptibility?

I think so. But how many people thought of it like that, as opposed to just thinking about "my sweet Lord?"

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/srLcDhmHn5s?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> This video, according to YouTube is from a 1971 concert. I wonder how much influence Harrison's song had in seeding the Jesus Movement.

About the REV, yes. About JS/STF, not necessarily. Yeah, well, I never opined on JS or STF... because I don't know him and don't care. Since I offered no opinion, how can I prove that? It seems more impossible than trying to disprove a negative. I also didn't opine on the REV. Because I've never read it and have no interest in doing so. I'm also not sure what it matters whether or not you will accept my lack of opinion on the two items. Cheers.:doh:/>

Your view certainly doesn't offend me... but I still disagree with you on the need to read the "REV by JS/STF" in order to develop an informed opinion on JS/STF. For me, the criteria Steve L set forth for his view is legitimate and valid. However, from a strictly logical perspective, perhaps reading the REV might be necessary in order to critically analyze that translation (or whatever you'd want to call it) of the bible. Then again, I have no dog in this fight, so to speak.

Thankfully. We're all survivors.

But is it still an emotional defense mechanism? I'm not suggesting you're wrong, just expanding the question.

Indeed... and it took major emotional trauma for me to realize that crap was messed up. Trauma in the home and in the workplace.

Well, it was posted in April 2014, has about 2,500 views... had only two thumbs up and two thumbs down. Now it has three thumbs up.