Rocky

Snowball fight in Phoenix in August....?

How does one liquidate the (millions of dollars worth of) assets of a non-profit corporation?

No doubt a lot of that is or will be in play. As I understand it, from about the time Lindsay was on Dr Phil's show, she was pretty angry with her parents even though her father was at least somewhat remorseful.

Note that our friend Penworks is mentioned in this update. "Charlene L. Edge was invited to give a presentation on April 21, 2016, to a freshman class of religion students taught by Dr. Todd French at Rollins College in Winter Park, Florida. “This was the second time he invited me to share my story with his class; it was the fourth presentation at Rollins. The theme I chose was Cult Control: Let’s Try To Understand. I used my personal story of 17 years in The Way International as a case study to show how high-control groups work, why I was drawn into it, why I stayed so long, the so-called biblical research I did with The Way, and how I escaped. Students asked very good questions."(continued at the link above) Yea Charlene!

Dateline May 18, 2016, (Pine County, MN) Accused cult leader's extradition to Minnesota stopped at last minute "Accused Minnesota cult leader Victor Barnard was all set to be extradited Thursday back to Minnesota from Brazil. Federal Marshals were preparing for the transfer to a jail in Pine County, Minn. And then, suddenly, the deal was off, for now. "Multiples sources tell the FOX 9 Investigators the diplomatic snafu comes down to the precise wording of the extradition agreement. As FOX 9 previously reported, Brazil's Supreme Court said they would only release Barnard to U.S. custody if it is agreed that his sentence, if convicted of the charges in Minnesota, would not exceed 30 years in prison...." continued

Very true.

That's an interesting question, Roy. But it also raises other questions. First, are you suggesting that the rules (keys) to biblical interpretation we learned from Wierwille are the bottom line for determining what is actually God's will (and God's Word)? I'm of the opinion that there's much more to understanding the forces that formed the cosmos, the universe as we know it, and life in all of its forms than what we can glean from the bible. Second, what may look to us -- because of what we've learned thus far in life -- to be idolatry, setting King James up as a god, or an equal with God, may or may not actually be that. Might it just be a cultural deference paid to the guy that commissioned their translation work? I don't know. To answer that question, we might need to understand customs and language from James' era. Nevertheless, I commend you for reflecting on what you read and wondering about the substance and significance of it.

Yeah, he had slaves for anything that took effort.

Yeah, well... since twi is and was then a cult, it took many years for people to recognize the issue, let alone take action on it. I'm confident you know that. I just wanted to articulate it.

Holy CRAP!

Very human, for a person or a group/subculture to define observable phenomena (i.e. behavior) in ways that justify and rationalize them. I have found tremendous insight in Mistakes were made (but not by me). "Social psychologists Tavris and Aronson, each of whom has published other works, here tackle "the inner workings of self-justification," the mental gymnastics that allow us to bemoan the mote in our brother's eye while remaining blissfully unaware of the beam in our own. Their prose is lively, their research is admirable and their examples of our arrogant follies are entertaining and instructive."

Good links. What's even more important is that wikipedia generally is very well footnoted/sourced. And when it's not, it usually says so. Anyway, I've found Ross Rosenberg's videos and writings (online, I haven't read any of his books) to poignantly hit the nail on the head regarding Wierwille and twi.

Schizoaffective disorder -- a condition in which a person experiences a combination of schizophrenia symptoms — such as hallucinations or delusions — and mood disorder symptoms, such as mania or depression. ------ Did he really believe God spoke audibly to him and showed him snow on the gas pumps? If he didn't make that up, then it seems to fit the definition. And there's no question, from observations made by people who spent time with him in the way corpse, that he had mood disorders, likely bipolar.

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/x54z2pRAvtg?rel=0" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe> DWBH, you mean kinda like what this guy describes? A malignant narcissist?

In prior posts on GSC, Charlene has mentioned her essay, Affinity for Windows, which is a memoir. It at least begins to address that question. Affinity for Windows is also posted on the main page of the GSC website (not the forums).

Or several books.

Apparently, I forgot to include the link in the original post above... now I can't find it. sorry. :confused:/>

Of course, many of us know the answer to that question already. I saw a post this evening on Facebook that inspired me to think about the question. Were you ever subject to Wierwille's angry rants? Or Martindale's? If you're curious, here's an interesting resource that provides a list of 10 questions to reflect back on your relationships with those "Mogs." For our younger greasespotters, perhaps you might have some insight on whether the organization (TWI) currently demonstrates a narcissistic personality. A couple of days ago, I found that the Power for Abundant Living book is for sale (from third-party vendors) on amazon.com. I found some of the reviews and comments on those reviews quite revealing. This is what I saw on Facebook that reminded me of Wierwille. Narcissists hurt people, they carry shame, low self-esteem, endured neglect, or deprivation, as a child, they create a container to keep the shame in, and repress it, they aren't aware how damaged they are, when held accountable, they deny and blame, subconsciously they feel unworthy, they can't bear to think there is something wrong with them, so they project, make it your fault, so they won't feel, the pain of their own self-judgement... - Marg - inspired by Ross Rosenberg

NO. They are NOT. None of them are. Not even legitimate democracies. All government systems are nothing more than different ways to organize societies and the collective power that arises from the people therein. That said, there is wisdom in adhering to the rules and laws of society. But there can also be godly wisdom in rebelling against some in certain situations.

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/8qssWO8NSq0?rel=0" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="420"></iframe> Indeed... which is why the Hulu original series "The Path" invokes twi and scientology both. It may be also worth considering that being out of twi control (30 years for some of us) for so long and not dying of some awful attack from Satan really blows Loy's declaration about greasespots to smithereens.

1) Indeed, because they controlled the flow of information, a key component for controlling the people. They couldn't get away with demand for submission quite as easily if they couldn't control what the submissees could consider, especially about the cult itself. 2) Cute word, purulency. Yes, twi was full of pus. And the PoP may have lanced it. But it never healed. That's also why it was important to indoctrinate the followers on political beliefs.

I doubt they'll answer at all.

Given that ALL of the intent of VPee's "teaching" was to establish HIMSELF as MOGFOT, and that the plagiarism directly subverts that concept, YES, anyone with even half a brain would have been able to rethink their life decisions

If you don't remember Wierwille's demand (suggestion? encouragement? or however you want to characterize it) to stop reading anything but the Word according to Victor, I don't know what to tell you. The younger people who more recently rejected Wierwillism/fundamentalism have stated unequivocally that the current interpretation is that the only approved reading material are "the collaterals." As much as you seem to be saying that I or others (like skyrider) are suggesting everything was either/or aka black/white, I don't see it that way. Group cohesion was absolutely dependent on submission, as the premise for this thread suggests. But of course there were degrees of submission and rebellion. VPee tamped down rebellion whenever it reared its ugly (to him) head... which was any time anyone dared to openly challenge ANY of his ideas, any of his plans, any of his actions, any of his words. As a young adult, I didn't look at it that way either. But I can look back and see it in the rear view mirror with extreme clarity. I was in residence with the 9th corpse for the first year. The interim year was problematic for me. I ended up splitting from Ft. Dodge, IA at Christmas time and high tailed it back to Arizona, where I moped for several months, not attending any fellowships. Following a phone call out of the blue from a 7th corpse fellow I knew, I reconnected with way believers and attended fellowships. Eventually, I went out wow during the 11th corpse interim year. My family coordinator was 11th corpse. He was all about demanding submission. Yet, the little "success" we had in proselytizing that year was a result of my resistance to that demand. After that year, I returned to AZ started back to college, graduating from AZ State in 86. I've shared other aspects of my experience elsewhere on gsc, including that my college studies (accounting major) she light on my study of Acts. I realized how bass ackwards twi's accountability structure was. That prepared me for kissing the whole cult buh bye when the big exodus occurred. So, yes, I know that not everybody who fellowshipped with twi believers got caught up in the submission to the same degree. That doesn't change obvious intent of Wierwille's organizational structure.