Rocky

Well then. That may just wrap up this topic. Did anyone comment in support of the wierwille nonsense? I don't think so. But DWBH nicely summarized and put a couple of salient exclamation points on the subject. Thanks, DWBH.

Well... I'd suggest that many of us have suffered from waybrain, but questioning prior beliefs from said waybrain is a major factor in moving past the malady (the waybrain). Isn't that what DogLover was doing, questioning and challenging the BS we were fed by the cult?

About Princeton Theological Seminary: PC(USA) is the Presbyterian Church of the USA. My cousin is an ordained PC(USA) pastor in northern Virginia.

I vote for the whole thing having been a bunch of nonsense. And I agree that shortfuse nailed several points.

If you don't think it applies to you, why even respond to it? This thread is NOT about you.

... and hilarity!

You could always start your own thread...

No need to apologize. Perception is intrinsically tied into magical thinking. Frankly, I think you make an excellent point about believing equals perceiving. :) I've thought (many times) back to when I first sat through the advanced class on PFLAP. Trying my darnedest to figure out if I was receiving revelation, I perceived that I was doing so when now I believe differently -- that I was learning how to intuitively add 2 + 2 and come up with a reasonable answer without necessarily having to think it through. That skill has served me well even though I no longer believe it to be revelation from God.

Indeed. So elaborating could help us understand your perspective better. That is, unless you're satisfied that you've effectively made your case despite the fact that nobody seems to see it the way you (TLC) do.

Did you say something that suggests you were looking for feedback (in your prior comment)?

1) What experience gives you legitimate perspective to make declarations about "their grandiose out to lunch effort?" And have anyone take you seriously, that is? 2) "... it is not really all that unique, uncommon or unheard of for a prominently positioned individual (be it a "boss" at work, a team leader, a university professor, or any number of other "responsible" parties) to "assume command" and take over a project once it reaches a certain stage of development or success and "put their name on it." Or so you have been led to believe. Care to document and put parameters or constraints on that particular declaration? Intellectual property is an intriguing topic in the legal literature. Are you a specialist in that field?

Were you intending to push emotional buttons with that accusation, or was it just incidental?

Now that wasn't so difficult, was it. :) Oh puhleeze! as if what VPee taught was any such thing? Just more irrational rationalization... and critical lack of critical thinking skills.

Is that a request for clarification? ;) Thanks for refocusing the discussion. :)

In other words, you assumed. You declared what you interpreted from johniam's post/comment and now say that if you were wrong, it was up to him to say so. Maybe that's true... maybe it was up to him to correct you. But is it really intellectually honest to concoct a scenario based on your assumption of his meaning... rather than asking him for clarification?

What DO you mean by "these men really seem like 'your kind of people?'" Hey TLC... your comment seems more like an assumption than a request for clarification. Is that what you meant to do?

Watch for release this fall of Penworks' memoir, "Undertow." That will provide a great deal of insight. Of course, I think it would be great if Skyrider and others wrote a memoir of their time in TWI.

I'd like to see the discourse take place without general accusations which characterize posters' comments as supportive of TWI and offshoot dogma positions if the poster hasn't specifically indicated affinity or support for those groups.

Indeed... fear is in the DNA of the subculture that VPW built. And fear is a powerful motivator. But you've done some of the most important work already -- learning by experience that the expectations they gave you are simply unfounded.

:offtopic:/> Sorry... meanwhile back to our regularly scheduled discussion of Wierwille's plagiarism.

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Depends on whether we eventually figured out that it was all bunk.

Had to have been someone in his inner circle... as if he could have figured it out on his own?

The bottom line to all of that makes the answer to the question posed in the thread topic: yes, most obviously, perhaps even to the most casual observer.

The TPP completely undermines the sovereignty of the US, it's constitution and its citizens. It IS the fruition of the concept of One World Government. It does so by making the trade agreement supercede the lawful rights of US citizens and makes us SUBJECT TO corporate rule by mega-corporations. An example of how trade agreements make US citizens into subjects is in the recent news that Canadian tar sands/oil interests are suing the US government for $15B for refusal to authorize the Keystone XL pipeline. My comment is only to explain what it is.