Rocky

I can't speak to how frequently he was publicly drunk, but I am aware that whenever he visited believers on the field, they gave him bottles of Drambuie and served it to him during times he was sitting with followers seated on floors (events called "night owls") at his feet listening to his BS. He did lose an eye, years after filming PFLAP. Likely there were multiple factors contributing to the eye problems.

Received my copy today (didn't check the mail on Saturday). I read it last winter/spring. I'm hoping I can get my daughter to read it (a busy mom with a full time job) to understand more of my personal history. Btw, this is my hope for Rosie, JYDL and company.

You shall know them by their fruit. TWI was nothing more than a cult of personality (VeePee). Was there ever any spiritual substance to it? Were they nucking futs? The question answers itself.

Happy Thanksgiving, Greasespotters!

Btw, even the Mormon church invests in their communities.

For emphasis... yes, we're talking about YOU, Rosie and JYDL.

BTW, you might also want to get yourself a copy of Penworks' book, to be released on Tuesday this week. Undertow: My escape from the fundamentalism and cult control of The Way International. You'll see how GSC is not about trying to convince people that TWI is trying to get their kids to wear sheets and go around selling flowers.

As chockfull noted, your statement is entirely a rationalization. Does TWI provide advance notice that "there are legitimate hurts people have from their experiences?" That's not what it said on the Green Card when I first learned about the cult 42 years ago. You might find this book provides insight. Mistakes were made (but not by me): Why we justify foolish beliefs, bad decisions and hurtful acts. I would also kindly direct your attention to Proverbs 2. The key underlying concept in Proverbs chapter two is CURIOSITY. Has TWI programmed you to put up blocks and limitations to your curiosity?

So, next Tuesday, the webpage with the paypal link will be posted?

I can't wait!

I can't wait until Penworks' memoir, "Undertow" is published. Lot's of insight to VeePee's awkward "research" skills, I suspect.

Or might it have been your presentation of the "parody" that's responsible for readers not picking up on it? Nah, that can't be it. You'd never blame someone else for something you're responsible for, right? ;)

Did you try it out on a test audience before you posted it? ;)

The writer of the research paper apparently didn't grasp the purpose of the debt policy, thinking that the organization held to biblical scholarship above all else. Silly, naive youngster. Reminds me of Romans 5:3-4. "Not only so, but we[c] also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4 perseverance, character; and character, hope." My PI: we aren't discouraged by the lessons from the school of hard knocks because we know that's how we learn life's lessons and build character and patience. From the perspective of the CULT (and the insight in chockfull's post essentially defines the concept of CULT), it's all about enforcing social norms that serve the organization at the expense of the member (or follower if you still prefer). And yes, stubborn, stupid and abusive.

The article on the Neuroscience of Rationalization is exquisitely brilliant. Thanks for that Bolshevik.

I'm incredibly thankful that I'm not the same as I was in 1986 (30 years ago) when I left twi. I graduated from college in 1986. Since then, I married, divorced, had a daughter, who now has two children of her own. It took a lot of tears and emotional pain for me to shed the waybrain way of life since. I'd have no use for meeting him in person. But I could relish a written confrontation with the tone of Nathan when he confronted David.

and WWJYDLD!

Thank you.

Vic was well past the age where he could reasonably be considered a "young person" when he more than occasionally exploited young women. Further, I doubt Vic even thought about having "authority over" those women. He generally framed it as giving them the opportunity to "bless" MOG, again, according to first hand accounts and the many records of how the traveling MOG was reverenced in every city he visited. Are you self-aware enough to realize that your arguments on this subject are notably discordant?

Yeah, I know what dimwit means. The shoe doesn't fit. That's why I chose not to wear it when you first called me that name.

Dimwit? How nice of you to start with name calling at the first indication of your frustration. "Being there?" You still did nothing other than make a vague statement and admit you had no clue. That's still not evidence to back up your claim that it wasn't as bad as the first hand accounts set forth as evidence of the rape culture describe. Nobody suggested that it was open knowledge that everybody had figured out. That doesn't mean it was less bad, just because you hadn't realized the problem.

Direct the question to yourself. Without ANY tangible anything, you made a comment that has one purpose: to say it wasn't as bad as the first hand testimony and accounts on GSC have described it. You stated a claim but provided ZERO evidence or even description of conditions on which you based that claim. So, the question applies to you, not me. I'm not the expert. Those with first hand experiences that they dared to set forth at GSC ARE the experts on that experience and culture. If you intend to refute those experts, you have to do more than just make a statement that it wasn't as bad as they led you to believe.

The answer to your first question is: selective amnesia aka denial. It's a very powerful human emotional defense mechanism. We all do it.

"What's the profit" that you get from attempting to play down or minimize the sociopathic behavior that pervaded twi? Do YOU have anything more than just what your mind imagines it was or could be? To far too big a degree, it was a rape culture at Way HQ. First hand accounts of survivors are included in this forum. How feasible is it to attempt to prove a negative? Just stop it.