Rocky

Poor Mike. Woe is Mike. Honest question, Mike. Do you, or did you ever, really think GSC was a place your "thesis [dogma]"* would be taken as legitimate? Has anyone here ever articulated that they are trying to "break you?" *Dogmatist: noun. "One who asserts positively doctrines or opinions unsupported by argument or evidence."

I'm confident you're not kidding. That's sorta what I was getting at when I recognized and commented that Mike is a dogmatist. [one who asserts positively doctrines or opinions unsupported by argument or evidence.] Great insight T-Bone.

You missed the point. You "voted" "genuine." Interesting that you would invoke the "US military." How does the US military relate to the way your hero conducted his ministry and established his subculture?

Really? You KNOW you weren't projecting? That would be a reasonable premise if you actually followed with an explanation of how you so "knew." But you didn't. I asked you to answer for the two points regarding pride in Proverbs because I wanted you to answer them. I really don't understand where you're coming from suggesting that I ever tried to predict your answer to any question. That's just subterfuge on your part, misdirection... unless you can point to anywhere that I claimed to predict your answers. Further, the fact that you're the ONLY one saying anything about an alleged "pure evil model" provides evidence that said model is solely a construct of your imagination (imagined summary interpretation of what you've read on GSC about your hero).

How is that at all related to your need to recognize that you were doing nothing other than projecting your insecurities onto me in that previous post?

This is Mike. I hope he doesn't take offense. If he's honest, he'd embrace it. Of course, Mike is still welcome here.

Even you should be able to recognize that as nothing more and nothing less than you projecting onto me. Here's the formula you set forth: "When YOU _____ it was because you thought _____." Dude, you've projected so far and so emphatically that you --- having NO basis in fact or in my words (which you didn't quote to even try to show where you came up with the notion) for claiming I was trying to predict anything that you would say. That's beyond bizarre.

good night sleep tight. Don't let the bed bugs bite.

Mike, how much alcohol must you consume to come up with this malarky?

Get it out incoherently, you might mean. When others pose questions for clarification (what about this; what about that; etc) if you had a coherent message, you'd be able to process the feedback and use it to build. By your own admission, you practiced dodging. How artful is subject to debate. And because you didn't and don't participate in a socratic process to make your message more meaningful, it collapses on the weight of its own hallowness because the support beams can't handle the weight. That you think I was trying to predict your answers gives rise to your confabulation. I was not trying to predict, I was asking you to answer. Your second paragragh makes no sense. I wasn't trying to put myself into any such thing. Carry on. Hope against hope that one day you will make sense.

Facts? Where did you present any facts at all about Wierwille's notions?

Right... it's NOT a democracy, but you vote "genuine." Should you not at least answer the questions raised from scripture? (Proverbs 11:14 and 16:18)

IDK... George mainly doesn't care who he offends.

I understand, Mel. It's the same thing Mike's been saying since the start of GSC.

Good one, Mel. I know George. I'll let him know you cited him.

Mike, you're rambling... very nearly incoherently. The ONE thing that is obvious from (and I did actually READ the entire comment) is that, beside rambling, you fawningly rationalized the irrational acts of a guy you can't defend any other way.

Seriously? It was his friggin' ministry. So what that some didn't want him to move to NK? It was STILL about him and only him.

King Solomon apparently disagreed with your (il)logic. What do you do with Proverbs 11:14? "Where there is no guidance, a people falls, but in an abundance of counselors there is safety." ESV And what about Proverbs 16:18? "Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall." NIV Mike, I think the scriptures are calling BULL$hit on you. VeePee was as arrogant as they come and clearly, he eschewed wise counsel when he needed it most.

Struggled with whom? It was his friggin' ministry, for crying out loud. I think YOU left out some important information. In your world (with allegedly "genuine spiritual leaders"), how does one determine "what's right with God," other than simply declining to question or challenge VeePee? How do you measure the standard? The way most of us saw it play out is that a malignant narcissist with a gift for conning young people demanded loyalty and if someone didn't like it, then to hell with them. IOW, people didn't stay in Wierwille's notion of the household of God based on anything other than that they bought into a confidence game and continued along because they found a place to belong.

You can start here (thread with links to archives).

First and foremost -- you are not alone! As far as going to therapy, the good thing is that all you have to do is respond to the questions posed by the therapist. I realize you probably already know that, so I hope you don't mind that I said it. Also, here's the video Twinky mentioned (that I posted the other day in another forum on this website). The labels are different for other cults, but the template is essentially the same as what we were subjected to in twi. You are also far from alone in dealing with depression and anxiety. It can get better for you. We're on your side.

Indeed. One thing that strikes me is that the labels are different but the template is virtually identical to the cult we escaped from. And this young lady does a great job of showing how not to be trapped for a lifetime.

We who were young in the 1970s and 1980s in TWI know what love bombing is, don't we? We know/knew it as a sales technique for a religious multi-level marketing enterprise. But with the advent of the #MeToo movement, observant scholars and essayists started recognizing it as an insidious scheme to win the loyalty and affection of the object of one's sexual attraction. “Love bombing, unlike real love, is a self-centered, anxious pursuit, with the singular goal of acquiring someone because it boosts the bomber’s ego,” Craig Malkin, clinical psychologist and author of Rethinking Narcissism, told HuffPost. “It’s not about care or compassion or tenderness..."