Rocky

Apologies to those who grew up in TWI (i.e. Bolshevik and others) who endured noxious fundamentalism and survived. In the spirit of putting perspective to our dysfunctional cult background, I present to you, Educated by Tara Westover. It may be important for me to reiterate that I'm not excusing the oppressiveness and abuse inherent in the social structure of twi, nor am I suggesting it wasn't so bad. I do suggest that there's always worse. More importantly, Ms. Westover shows remarkable determination to overcome her upbringing in an isolated family in Idaho. Most importantly, Tara's story is a memoir of hope. Amazon.com Review An Amazon Best Book of February 2018: Tara Westover wasn’t your garden variety college student. When the Holocaust was mentioned in a history class, she didn’t know what it was (no, really). That’s because she didn’t see the inside of a classroom until the age of seventeen. Public education was one of the many things her religious fanatic father was dubious of, believing it a means for the government to brainwash its gullible citizens, and her mother wasn’t diligent on the homeschooling front. If it wasn’t for a brother who managed to extricate himself from their isolated—and often dangerous--world, Westover might still be in rural Idaho, trying to survive her survivalist upbringing. It’s a miraculous story she tells in her memoir Educated. For those of us who took our educations for granted, who occasionally fell asleep in large lecture halls (and inconveniently small ones), it’s hard to grasp the level of grit—not to mention intellect—required to pull off what Westover did. But eventually earning a PhD from Cambridge University may have been the easy part, at least compared to what she had to sacrifice to attain it. The courage it took to make that sacrifice was the truest indicator of how far she’d come, and how much she’d learned. Educated is an inspiring reminder that knowledge is, indeed, power. --Erin Kodicek, Amazon Book Review

Congratulations, Ann!

I'm all for trying to present a new or different way to look at things, but if you think that's what you were doing, perhaps some self-awareness development might be helpful.

You can be so sweet and Christ-like sometimes.

Bam!

Right... and until we do, we should not suggest specifics about things we don't know. It's fair, of course, to say you believe he grew up in a dysfunctional family.

If we want to continue reaching people wanting to exit twi, my view is to not speculate about things like whether VP was molested as a child unless there's something concrete that points to it.

And no doubt to have the depth of insight you wouldn't otherwise have now. Very well stated, Krys! Btw, Happy Birthday!

Indeed. Good for you too, JayDee, that you left 31 years ago. Shortly after I left.

I don't share that wish with you. Though I regret some of my choices and some of what I did after leaving twi, I am who I am now because of those mistakes. That sentiment does not negate the notion that cults make merchandise of their followers/members. I am tremendously thankful that I figured out that I needed to leave and actually did. And that the ensuing years have represented growth and development of insight I wouldn't have had otherwise.

Stephen Covey also cites Frankl's magnum opus in the Seven Habits of Highly Successful People, making the very point that you have highlighted in bold.

Have any of you ever read Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor E. Frankl? I'm friends with a guy that was a young teacher in the high school I graduated from (46 years ago)... he's not so young anymore and neither am I. He assigned students in his English classes to read that book and write an essay about it. Yesterday, he posted on FB about that practice. It was a timely reminder of a classic. So, I got it from my local library today and started reading it. It occurs to me that the book may be a good filter/lens through which to evaluate our experience in twi and each our own lives in the ensuing decades. To me, it fits well with the subject of this thread.

BAM! That's it. He apparently wasn't counting on that. He wasn't the only one. I remember JALvis saying something a couple of years ago either to me or someone roughly the same age. He was addressing the situation as if we (those at whom he was speaking) were still twentysomethings. It definitely got my attention.

He did indeed.

I appreciate your reflection on and analysis of that scripture. Pretty straightforward, eh?

Worth more than $.02 to me. Thanks.

From the NIV So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12 to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. 14 Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves,and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming. 15 Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ. Now, we have documented in tremendous depth and detail in this forum how Wierwille did not walk in or speak the truth in love. He was largely in it for his own pecuniary gain. But he also taught this particular passage, clearly emphasizing that HE was the one who could teach people how to not be tossed about with every wind of doctrine... YET... it appears he was likely the biggest stumbling block to keep people from maturing spiritually. Uncanny, really. Did Wierwille's teaching promote unity in the Body of Christ? Or did he revel in his divisiveness? You tell me.... please.

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Do you have any way to distinguish your personal experience/opinion from what we understand to be "private interpretation?"

Reminds me of the time... a couple of years ago, an old 9th corpse bro came to Phoenix for a work convention. Another local 9th corpse bro (used to post at GSC as simonzelotes) and I met him for dinner once. The out of towner seemed incredulous when we responded to his question of whether we ever went to fellowship anymore. Of course, the answer was NO. And the reason is as you described in the text I quoted.

Different perspective. Definitely legitimate, not necessary contradictory to what Skyrider described.

Priceless! Thanks for the link.

Intriguing that Plato wrote that more than 300 years BC!

I agree, narcissistic pathologies don't require methodical planning to be carried out "successfully."

Surgically accurate insight. "Though wierwille turned the reins of this program over to others..." He had to in order for his legacy to have live forever. Bravo, Skyrider!