Rocky

Indeed. Good for you too, JayDee, that you left 31 years ago. Shortly after I left.

I don't share that wish with you. Though I regret some of my choices and some of what I did after leaving twi, I am who I am now because of those mistakes. That sentiment does not negate the notion that cults make merchandise of their followers/members. I am tremendously thankful that I figured out that I needed to leave and actually did. And that the ensuing years have represented growth and development of insight I wouldn't have had otherwise.

Stephen Covey also cites Frankl's magnum opus in the Seven Habits of Highly Successful People, making the very point that you have highlighted in bold.

Have any of you ever read Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor E. Frankl? I'm friends with a guy that was a young teacher in the high school I graduated from (46 years ago)... he's not so young anymore and neither am I. He assigned students in his English classes to read that book and write an essay about it. Yesterday, he posted on FB about that practice. It was a timely reminder of a classic. So, I got it from my local library today and started reading it. It occurs to me that the book may be a good filter/lens through which to evaluate our experience in twi and each our own lives in the ensuing decades. To me, it fits well with the subject of this thread.

BAM! That's it. He apparently wasn't counting on that. He wasn't the only one. I remember JALvis saying something a couple of years ago either to me or someone roughly the same age. He was addressing the situation as if we (those at whom he was speaking) were still twentysomethings. It definitely got my attention.

He did indeed.

I appreciate your reflection on and analysis of that scripture. Pretty straightforward, eh?

Worth more than $.02 to me. Thanks.

From the NIV So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12 to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. 14 Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves,and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming. 15 Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ. Now, we have documented in tremendous depth and detail in this forum how Wierwille did not walk in or speak the truth in love. He was largely in it for his own pecuniary gain. But he also taught this particular passage, clearly emphasizing that HE was the one who could teach people how to not be tossed about with every wind of doctrine... YET... it appears he was likely the biggest stumbling block to keep people from maturing spiritually. Uncanny, really. Did Wierwille's teaching promote unity in the Body of Christ? Or did he revel in his divisiveness? You tell me.... please.

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Do you have any way to distinguish your personal experience/opinion from what we understand to be "private interpretation?"

Reminds me of the time... a couple of years ago, an old 9th corpse bro came to Phoenix for a work convention. Another local 9th corpse bro (used to post at GSC as simonzelotes) and I met him for dinner once. The out of towner seemed incredulous when we responded to his question of whether we ever went to fellowship anymore. Of course, the answer was NO. And the reason is as you described in the text I quoted.

Different perspective. Definitely legitimate, not necessary contradictory to what Skyrider described.

Priceless! Thanks for the link.

Intriguing that Plato wrote that more than 300 years BC!

I agree, narcissistic pathologies don't require methodical planning to be carried out "successfully."

Surgically accurate insight. "Though wierwille turned the reins of this program over to others..." He had to in order for his legacy to have live forever. Bravo, Skyrider!

Life experience.

LOL... I'm confident that doesn't bother you and it certainly doesn't bother me. Peace. :)

You got that right. My grandchildren (and their parents) moved to N Cali a few months ago. Housing costs are outrageous.

May I ask, you have a rather WHAT perspective? At the risk of starting something I may not be able to finish, may I pose that ALL of the first several chapters of Genesis compose what historians (and others) properly categorize as a creation myth. It seems that every ancient culture/religion has one. Myths are not necessarily untrue, they are simply STORIES. Have any of you ever heard or read about cultural literacy? a traditional or legendary story, usually concerning some being or hero or event, with or without a determinable basis of fact or a natural explanation, especially one that is concerned with deities or demigods and explains some practice, rite, or phenomenon of nature. (quote ends here... not sure how to fix the formatting whackyness that follows) ----------- As such, in Genesis, it may be simply and fairly characterized, when people haggle over the meanings of words or the timelines (like in the first seven days spelled out in Gen 1) that they are overthinking, overanalyzing and just plain spinning their wheels. Further, what does it have to do with Thus Saith Paul?

And it might also be in your local public library.

Amen brother!

For the first few years of GSC, some people wondered whether Vic was a good man gone wrong... THIS analysis (presented by Skyrider) is legitimate and cuts through the bull$hit to demonstrate the motivation and intent from the very beginning. When Vic demonized church leaders, was he employing psychological projection? Sure seems like it. The CULT BLOB! I love that expression. It's so apt. "Everyone is selling soap..." i.e. the Amway pyramid scheme. Also quite apt. Was Wierwille a malignant narcissist? Thanks Skyrider for continuing to ponder, reflect and share you comments the situation.

This was written more than 300 years before Christ: Surely, I said, knowledge is the food of the soul; and we must take care, my friend, that the Sophist does not deceive us when he praises what he sells, like the dealers wholesale or retail who sell the food of the body; for they praise indiscriminately all their goods, without knowing what are really beneficial or hurtful: neither do their customers know, with the exception of any trainer or physician who may happen to buy of them. In like manner those who carry about the wares of knowledge, and make the round of the cities, and sell or retail them to any customer who is in want of them, praise them all alike; though I should not wonder, O my friend, if many of them were really ignorant of their effect upon the soul; and their customers equally ignorant, unless he who buys of them happens to be a physician of the soul. If, therefore, you have understanding of what is good and evil you may safely buy knowledge of Protagoras or any one; but if not, then, O my friend, pause, and do not hazard your dearest interests at a game of chance. For there is far greater peril in buying knowledge than in buying meat and drink. … Plato Protagoras Fromm, Erich. Man for Himself: An Inquiry Into the Psychology of Ethics (p. 3). Open Road Media. Kindle Edition. Wise words from one of the Ancients... very few of us knew that when we were young people.