Rocky

No further need to discuss it, since you don't seem to care whether or not what people here have clearly shown to be the case with the R&R group. However, you have been uniquely situated to explore the issue.

Glad you asked for clarification. I answered it in several prior posts on this thread. Btw, I'm (three plus) decades removed from involvement with twi so I have no anger. But in that three plus decades, I have lived a life. I've had careers in accounting and journalism. I've tried to be well read on issues of life. I also have a few (12 or so) years experience in the cult. You might say I've been around the block a few times. If you really want to know why I would think that, reread a few key posts I've made (like defining humanity, recognizing patterns and habits, etc.) and if you still want further insight on the question, certainly ask away. I don't read most of the comments on this thread as being angry. But correctly recognizing emotion in interaction between people is also very important in the process of understanding group dynamics. As I've said before, you don't seem to demonstrate much curiosity or inquisitiveness regarding the group. You very likely could learn a lot more about them, beneath the surface so to speak, if you did.

I have to wonder about your level of curiosity... and/or resourcefulness. Dude, if you want to know something... "seek and ye shall find." Ever heard of that before?

Like... this IS on the internet. Can people not be found if they have any footprint on the internet?????

You appear to be too close to the subject to be capable of objective analysis. In journalism, that's strictly forbidden. On forums, not so much. The key point is that you rationalize and try to justify what you see. You SAY you're just giving your observations, but you're just too close to your subject. Case in point: you clearly have stated that you have not observed evidence of the R&R group wanting followers' money. Do you have any idea what an investigative journalist would do to actually find out? It goes well beyond seeing whether they have a "donate" button on their website. I've asked you questions that could lead you to exploring the issue if you had a genuine inquisitiveness. Beyond claiming "they have been very specific they don't want money," how deep has been the public discussion about how the organization will fund its activities?

Take the blinders off... you'll see it.

One of the key determinants of humanity is the ability to recognize patterns. Another is that unless adult humans undergo a significant emotional event, they don't change their values. Another is that we act from habit most of the time. It's not that we are 100 percent certain... but unless they demonstrate something out of the ordinary, we've pretty much got them pegged.

Contact page to contact whom, then?

You believe? Or you have it on their word? Or some other authority?

Do they have jobs? Are they all independently wealthy? If not, then they want (need) money from their followers.

Then it's not a contact list, is it?

With phone numbers and email addresses? Not that I need any of them.

Well... I can agree with part of what you said. "You cannot move forward until the old tainted individuals are removed..." must be followed by a complete re-examination of the writings upon which the organization was built and the social structure, mores and practices are overhauled. Only then can positive change occur.

Well, based on the insights in Charlene's book about "research," I'd have to say that Taxidev nailed it... literal translation according to what VPW believed it meant. Which was not necessarily what God intended.

I know it's frustrating. I hear that in your posts on this thread. Wikipedia apparently has a different interpretation of what "righting great wrongs" means than you do. Thankfully, you can (and have) expressed your frustration. Perhaps another time another opportunity will arise to set this straight on their (wikipedia's) own terms. Even more thankfully, TWI can't do anything to keep us from disclosing the truth here on Greasespot.

The answer would have to be yes. Perhaps the more salient question is where you can find them... whether they would be sealed or not, etc.

Citation please, Thomas.

Apologies to those who grew up in TWI (i.e. Bolshevik and others) who endured noxious fundamentalism and survived. In the spirit of putting perspective to our dysfunctional cult background, I present to you, Educated by Tara Westover. It may be important for me to reiterate that I'm not excusing the oppressiveness and abuse inherent in the social structure of twi, nor am I suggesting it wasn't so bad. I do suggest that there's always worse. More importantly, Ms. Westover shows remarkable determination to overcome her upbringing in an isolated family in Idaho. Most importantly, Tara's story is a memoir of hope. Amazon.com Review An Amazon Best Book of February 2018: Tara Westover wasn’t your garden variety college student. When the Holocaust was mentioned in a history class, she didn’t know what it was (no, really). That’s because she didn’t see the inside of a classroom until the age of seventeen. Public education was one of the many things her religious fanatic father was dubious of, believing it a means for the government to brainwash its gullible citizens, and her mother wasn’t diligent on the homeschooling front. If it wasn’t for a brother who managed to extricate himself from their isolated—and often dangerous--world, Westover might still be in rural Idaho, trying to survive her survivalist upbringing. It’s a miraculous story she tells in her memoir Educated. For those of us who took our educations for granted, who occasionally fell asleep in large lecture halls (and inconveniently small ones), it’s hard to grasp the level of grit—not to mention intellect—required to pull off what Westover did. But eventually earning a PhD from Cambridge University may have been the easy part, at least compared to what she had to sacrifice to attain it. The courage it took to make that sacrifice was the truest indicator of how far she’d come, and how much she’d learned. Educated is an inspiring reminder that knowledge is, indeed, power. --Erin Kodicek, Amazon Book Review

Congratulations, Ann!

I'm all for trying to present a new or different way to look at things, but if you think that's what you were doing, perhaps some self-awareness development might be helpful.

You can be so sweet and Christ-like sometimes.

Bam!

Right... and until we do, we should not suggest specifics about things we don't know. It's fair, of course, to say you believe he grew up in a dysfunctional family.

If we want to continue reaching people wanting to exit twi, my view is to not speculate about things like whether VP was molested as a child unless there's something concrete that points to it.

And no doubt to have the depth of insight you wouldn't otherwise have now. Very well stated, Krys! Btw, Happy Birthday!