Rocky

Here's link to one of those articles. Excerpt: In November 1994, my wife and I participated in a four-day training experience called Momentus. We were persuaded to take Momentus by John A. Lynn, head of a group called Christian Educational Services (CES). He said that Momentus was a Christian training that would help us "get closer to the Lord and to His people." It didn't. In the following testimony, I describe the training as accurately as I can and describe its nonChristian roots. We can never cease to be vigilant in these last days, since the scriptures warn us that some will preach false teachings which would turn some of the flock away from the greatest revelation of all- God's Word. So we must test what that message against both the spirit within us and the Word of God and look for the fruits that result from the teaching. It is both the message and its vehicle that I see that is wrong about Momentus. And I believe that the Word instructs us to take a stand against those, so that others are not harmed, as were many of us. I personally suffered as a result of my participation in the Momentus training, as did others I know who are close to me. That is why I struggled for more than a year with it, looking to God's Word for my answers, before I could be certain that I was not just judging the training carnally because of my own sufferings. A pattern that I'm seeing very strongly is that most people who hear of or become involved with Momentus realize right off in some way that it is wrong, that it's not of God. Some pay heed and are spared the damage of Momentus. Others let themselves be talked into taking the training by men they respect- and suffering the consequences. Too many Christians have let other men talk them out of what the scripture can tell them regarding Momentus and have succumbed to its promotion. One of the biggest problems I have with Momentus (other than its teachings and practices being derived from nonChristian sources) is the conspiracy of silence surrounding what it's really like.

As your comment, James 3:17 occurred to me. But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. 18And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

And has empowered me to view life's challenges more confidently.

Honest living by LGBTQ people certainly is nothing to scorn such people about. But if this guy had been working in a non-profit organization that refrained from judgment about his personal life, and if the organization paid a reasonable wage, Mr. McLoone could have had his life without having to embezzle/steal. Is it at all parallel to enjoy worshiping at Catholic masses with full knowledge that the constraints on the clergy foster deception and perverse conduct (theft of church funds is quite perverse, IMO) as opposed to TWI cultists still loyal to that corporation/cult when they know full well how dishonest the top leadership has been over the decades?

Speaking of incontinent Catholic priests, apparently one of them just got pinched for misappropriation of collections money. A Pennsylvania Catholic priest stole nearly $100,000 from his parish and spent the money on a beach house and relationships with adult men, prosecutors say. Monsignor Joseph McLoone, formerly a priest at St. Joseph’s Catholic Church in Downingtown, has been charged with felony theft and related crimes, the Chester County District Attorney’s Office announced Wednesday. Over the next six years, prosecutors say McLoone funneled church money into this private account. He allegedly stole all of the donations collected yearly on All Souls Day, and took money from other special collections throughout the year, as well. Prosecutors allege he also doubled the standard parish fees for weddings, funerals and special masses, pocketing the difference. The priest used the money to pay for a beach house in Ocean City, New Jersey, as well as traveling, dining and “spending on adult men with whom he maintained sexual relationships.” He allegedly made thousands of dollars in payments directly to men he met on the dating app Grindr through online money transfer services, according to a police complaint obtained by PhillyMag. The priest ultimately stole $98,405 from St. Joseph’s Parish, prosecutors allege. In early 2018, the Archdiocese of Philadelphia learned that McLoone had created a bank account in his parish’s name that wasn’t showing up in the church’s official records. In a press release about the matter, the archdiocese said its officials confronted McLoone, who acknowledged that some expenditures from the account were for personal expenses of an “inappropriate nature.” Those expenses were related to “relationships with adults” that violated the archdiocese’s standards for ministers, the archdiocese said. McLoone has been on administrative leave since spring 2018. He was arrested on Wednesday and has reportedly posted bail. Prior to McLoone’s appointment, St. Joseph’s Catholic Church was led by Monsignor William J. Lynn, who in 2012 became the first American Catholic official convicted for covering up child sexual abuse.

Twinky, thanks for the suggestion but I think I'll save my reading time for other subjects. Frankly, the intellectualizing (by Catholicism related sources) seems to lend itself to self-justifying rationalization. Kinda like how VeePee (and Loy) built an entire subculture on self-justifying rationalization, notably (but not limited to) matters of sexuality.

Continence? I thought being incontinent had to do with urinating. Are they talking about celibacy?

Alcohol, especially chronic alcohol abuse like veepee did, is also known to cause cancer.

What about the Charismatic Catholics?

Meh. I did watch a couple of minutes of each of those videos. OM, glad there's something for you to find worthy and fulfilling in catholicism. But it's definitely not for me.

Of course he won't tell people unless they ask. His ministry is about him, not about wierwille.

[Actually, it wasn't TLC that said it, it was "Duke Baxter." I just quoted from TLC's post.] Really? Not one iota of that post smacks of real anything to me... except something that would be impolite to articulate. It's not often I agree with TLC, but on this point I certainly do. Further, I don't see where either JAL or Osteen are humble. But maybe I'm just not looking in the right place.

That's all well and good... but that wasn't the question.

Carry on.

I don't agree with John Lynn's take on the bible or religion, but who are we to tell him he can't live according to what he sees as his life's calling? That's his call, not yours or mine.

It would intrigue me if we could also get TWI to answer the question (the official line) and then further parse it out (even beyond the gracious answers from T-Bone, Waysider, and Skyrider) with the experience of current and more of the former followers of the sect.

Does this AMA (reddit's version of this thread) allow people who are not logged into GSC to post a question?

Ooooh! Count me in... (j/k)

I love the idea for this subforum. It can provide a space for alternate views of how people develop a walk/life of satisfaction and fulfillment regardless of which view they take regarding God. Thanks Socks for bringing this up. My initial thoughts go to James 1. 2 Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters,[a] whenever you face trials of many kinds, 3 because you know that the testing of your faithproduces perseverance. 4 Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. 5 If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you. 9 Believers in humble circumstances ought to take pride in their high position. 10 But the rich should take pride in their humiliation—since they will pass away like a wild flower. 11 For the sun rises with scorching heatand withers the plant; its blossom falls and its beauty is destroyed. In the same way, the rich will fade away even while they go about their business. 12 Blessed is the one who perseveres under trial because, having stood the test, that person will receive the crown of life that the Lord has promised to those who love him. 13 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 19 My dear brothers and sisters, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, 20 because human anger does not produce the righteousness that God desires. 22 Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. 23 Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like someone who looks at his face in a mirror 24 and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like. 25 But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it—not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it—they will be blessed in what they do. 26 Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless. -------- I'm NOT of the mind that any of this suggests that when a person gets "saved" that can be reversed or lost. But "faith without works" is worthless in this life, as far as I'm concerned. Not that it's MY place to judge that for anyone but my own life. Selah!

Or Facebook or Twitter for that matter.

Just curious there, DWBH, how recent was your last training session in the legal field, and did any of that training refer to reading into other people's motives when you have no in person contact with the people? And are you engaged in delivering necessary and proper PROFESSIONAL healthcare to anyone by way of GSC? thank you.

Touché. Well, I didn't have or claim preeminence. But I still think your questioning of Skyrider's claim was outrageous.

Seriously? Who are you to call anyone posting on GSC a liar? That comment seems extraordinarily arrogant. Did anyone encourage you to go to God in prayer?

Kewl mahn! Btw, I dig "The Obstacle is the way." I never gave any thought to Stoic philosophy until this summer... then I read a book that made a lot of sense... titled, The Obstacle is the way (by Ryan Holiday). Cool book.