Rocky

Stayed too long, This is a discussion of history. Only the context is politics. I figure if it stays civil, it might not get deleted.

Last spring I read Valarie Kaur's memoir and manifesto of revolutionary love, See No Stranger. It's life changing (in a good way), especially for people emerging from fundamentalist cults.

Thanks T-Bone.

You sure got that right.

That depends on what you mean when you say listening. In one sense they probably are, in the other sense, never in a million years.

Indeed. Thanks for reminding anyone who reads this thread that it certainly does no good to blame those who get infected, especially those who die from covid, for whatever transgression they may think caused those people to lose God's protection. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew 5:44-46&version=NIV 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that?

And a hopefully Merry New Year all through 2021.

Too early in the day for me.

Don't they have jobs in education?

Totally cool article (and excerpts). They train us in the art of being human! Obviously our parents are the first models/teachers we have for that training. I think of one of the valid points that Wierwille made in the PFLAP class, about needing a center of reference outside of ourselves for learning. We (even introverts) are intensely intensely social animals. If the only reference points we have for how to behave and interact with other humans ends up being our parents, how sad and limited we would be. No matter how wonderful or monstrous our parents were. It also highlights the dangerous aspect of twi and other cults that find something, in our case the bible, to misinterpret when to justify establishing a closed social subculture that allows and encourages dependence rather than autonomy as the guiding principle for interacting with each other. So, thanks very much T-Bone for sharing those excerpts.

Indeed, it passes the time, productively I believe. We (your readers here at GSC) know of you what and how you have shared of yourself. We know that you engage in meaningful ministry to people who might seem hard to reach for many people. Reading what an anthropologist has to say about how people die may one day (or many) inspire you on how to reach into the heart and soul of the people you meet. Same when reading about the customs and practices of Punjabi women. That you enjoy those authors and their writing only makes it seem like entertainment. It's active learning. I think about the blurb I wrote for Charlene Edge's book. “Undertow is a gift to young people and their families who want to understand the inner workings of fundamentalist cults. Charlene Edge’s experience parallels much of my own twelve years as a follower of Victor Paul Wierwille’s ministry. Undertow sheds light on the decisions, questions, and longings that she encountered, and ultimately worked her way through. In the words of Canadian author Matshona Dhliwayo, ‘Books are kinder teachers than experience.’ May Undertow be a kinder teacher to you than Charlene’s seventeen years in The Way International were to her.” Couple that with insight from T-Bone's comment above and you've got lots of benefits to reading books, whether memoirs and fiction stories.

Novels aren't meaningless, even though the plot and characters might seem like it. Humans (you included) are all about storytelling. Pick stories by the storytellers you like best and you're bound to learn something about telling your own stories in ways that will interest more and more people.

I'm told by JavaJane, whose brother had done an artistic project related to AOTS, that the video production is 2 hours.

BREAKING: The 29th storm of the Atlantic hurricane season has just been named as #Theta. 2020 now has the most named storms in a single season on record! Fortunately, not aiming anywhere in the US. The Weather Channel tweeted this evening.

Basically, your previous comment summed up the thesis of Buber's book. I and thou as opposed to I and it. "I and it" is how he described a person's relationship with others when the person (Wierwille) only considered the other person as a thing to be used. Rather than a person to be respected, honored, loved.

WW, you're probably familiar with Martin Buber's book, I and Thou. At least, it sounds from your comment above, that you're familiar with it. I couldn't agree more.

TUVM T-Bone.

Yes.

Well before I first encountered twi, I was involved with "charismatic" fellowships in Biloxi, MS while in Air Force tech school. I wanted to SIT then but could never get started. Part of it was peer pressure. I was 18 or 19 yo at the time. It wasn't until PFLAP session 12 when veepee explained to just start babbling (or however he said it) that I did it.

Rebekah Powers was 11 when members of her faith group, the People of Praise, gathered around as she sat on a chair and laid their hands on her to pray. Powers’ sister had shown a gift for speaking in tongues, a defining trait of the followers of the small charismatic Christian community, and Rebekah was expected to do the same. But after what seemed like an eternity, she proved unable to produce a sound. “I couldn’t get it, and I stayed there an hour and a half before they gave up and finally said, ‘You just have blockage. You need to just work on your sin and be more open,” she said. The 41-year-old had a rebellious spirit and left People of Praise when she turned 18. It has taken decades of therapy and hard work to overcome the intense feelings of shame and fear of damnation that she said marked her childhood. The Christian faith group, based in South Bend, Indiana, dominated every aspect of her early life, she said. ### This thread can remain focused on the high profile nature of cults. I hope it does.

Wish you all the best on your journey of recovery, Grace.

The closest thing to medicinal value might be placebos. Nevertheless, it's still not substantial in and of itself.

I did finish The Book of Longings by Sue Monk Kidd shortly ago. Here's a review I saw on Goodreads. I thought Glennon Doyle's thoughts were particularly poignant. Why I love it by Glennon Doyle, Author of the #1 New York Times bestseller Untamed Sue Monk Kidd, the brilliant, beloved storyteller who gifted us with The Secret Life of Bees, has done it again. Her most recent treasure, The Book of Longings, is the first book that has literally taken my breath away. As I read, I had to close it and breathe deeply, again and again. Both a radical reimagining of the New Testament, and an homage to all untamed, trespassing women, The Book of Longings is right on time for this moment. The book tells the story of Ana—a brave and ambitious woman who rails against her repressive society, fighting to express herself and realize her full potential. As the daughter of a wealthy politician, Ana is expected to marry a man chosen for her, and not the penniless carpenter named Jesus she meets in a chance encounter. What follows is a stunning and universal portrayal of women’s longing, silencing, and awakening. I read The Book of Longings right after my own book Untamed made its way into the world, and found Ana of Sue Monk Kidd's masterpiece to be a breathtakingly untamed woman. I will carry The Book of Longings in my heart forever, because it reflects what was always there. I invite every trespassing woman to find her own journey in Ana's story—and to finish this novel mesmerized, encouraged, and emboldened. -- 30 -- As far as what Kidd does with Jesus, even though he's only a secondary protagonist here, he comes to life in ways that simply reading the Gospel books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John (as well as the Acts of the Apostles) alone cannot do for readers. No matter how immersed in religious traditions the reader may have been as a child. I attended Catholic grade schools for six years. To accomplish this, Kidd doesn't re-write the Gospels, she imagines and explores the undocumented years between ages 12/13 and 30. What would he have been doing according to the culture of the day? True or not, as only stories can, for the reader Jesus becomes more real in her/his mind. I cried throughout the last 30-40 pages.