Rocky

It may be "preventable" but doing so is not necessarily simple. If it were, why are so many people not able to prevent or reverse it?

I believe you are right on the money with that observation.

You may, and I'm glad you did... I figure it's good (for Sarah and her family) that she can look to much more about her father than what you so thoughtfully added. Life and lives are complex. She's a grandparent now and lives constantly with memory of her father's life. It may be small (minute) comfort that (she and) they acknowledged his imperfection and his narcissism, even though they can't help but put it to the side most of the time. But your added words seem to come from a place that has also given lots of thought to your situation. Thanks very much for sharing those words. I'd like to believe that Sarah would hear your words and respond with kindness and acknowledgment if she had the opportunity to sit face to face with you.

Ssshhhh!

I don't doubt your assessment/impression of Vern or Jill. However, TWI undoubtedly is and has been a cult. Can they ever "grow out of it," as in become a religious group not demanding or exacting high demands of adherents? I don't know, but suppose it's possible. As OldSkool said (above) in a reply to Mike, I've studied institutions and organizations some. I think of MIT professor of management, Peter Senge. I read his book The Fifth Disciple: the Art & Practice of the Learning Organization in the 1990s. The most recent edition is dated 2010. Senge's basic premise is that any organization that can break the bonds of arrogance like what OldSkool described can and must be willing to change. That takes immense humility. I might believe twi can do that... if I ever see it. But there is SOOOOOO much of Wierwille's "DNA" in the organization I can only default to believe it is all but impossible for them. Besides reading Senge's really great book, I advocated institutional change in public schools as my children were growing up and during the 1990s when I worked in the largest state government agency in AZ as an accountant. For TWI to change its stripes IMO is the kind of thing Jesus referred to when he talked about faith moving mountains.

The first five minutes and 40 seconds of this video presents a good overview of what makes a cult a cult. The interview subject is Rick Alan Ross, author of the book, Cults Inside Out. It has clearly been established that TWI demands, and has demanded since its inception, people tithe and then some. If they don't they are put in fear of losing God's protection. Then there was the sexual demands of the first two presidents. Let's not forget the as near as possible to free labor that the cult has gotten from the way corpse. Oh, and lets not lose sight of the demand from leaders at all levels to account for one's time down to the minute (15 minute?) increments. Tying this back to the thread topic, PLAF was ALL about Wierwille defining what was and is right for twi adherents.

Another key aspect of cults is that they are "high demand" organizations. In that regard, Rosalie can never shake the cult label, IMO.

OMG! One of the main aspects of a cult, regarding your point that I highlighted, is that the leader is a malignant narcissist. Of course, I'm not contradicting you, just getting a bit more specific. And in case you haven't seen the thread I just linked, I also embedded this YouTube video which I had put in that thread.

Always have been, I expect, with their slave labor. Speaking of HR rules and proper tax accounting, has anyone ever wondered whether those cash "love offerings" that traveling kings... er, leaders... er, those who are supposed to be servants, get are ever included in annual W-2 or 1099 income reports? My hunch? Probably not.

Bottom of the page. OTC Reading glasses are inexpensive. All of us old farts have eye issues.

In case I wasn't clear, I meant to ask how many hours/week was the limit before they had to provide health care benefits.

I hope you figured out that the answer to your original question was at the page I supplied the link to for you.

Boy does that sound familiar. And a certain FORMER politician still tries to do it (torture everyone).

What's the threshold for having to provide health care benefits?

Nailed it. But Vern's bit at the start was not any more candid or authentic.

indeed.

Did you check The Way's website for that information?

I posted this video in a thread in the open forum last month. It is from a livestream webinar I sat through. The subject is malignant narcissism. "this core pathology of malignant narcissism will determine the course of their leadership style. Understandably, their leadership will be rendered dangerous by inflamed, infantile affects that will drive extremes of intellect and behavior. Under stress, the malignant leader will endure storms of emotion that will hijack their intelligence and determine policy decisions."

To illustrate the danger of building on shifting sand, I point to the very recent collapse of a condo tower in Miami Beach, FL. The death toll in the Florida condominium collapse rose to nine Sunday as authorities continued to search through the rubble for survivors. Miami-Dade County Mayor Daniella Levine Cava said additional bodies were recovered after first responders dug a trench through the wreckage. Emergency workers have brought in major machinery being used to sift through the debris, which will be taken to a warehouse and analyzed for any forensic clues.

Plenty of documentation of first hand records to that effect are contained on this website.

Unfortunately, these incidents were the rule, not the exception.

A demonstration of wierwille's malignant narcissism. He thought and acted like he was the Big Cheese. Pffft!

Awfully outrageous, eh?

Here is one where wierwille was whining about corpse abandoning their "duty" to God (i.e. to The Way).