Belle

MTC, LOL! He was talking about his broken washer & dryer while the collection plate was being passed back then. I didn't give any money cause I could tell where it most likely was gonna be spent. <_<

Ain't change great? ^_^ Hopefully we just keep on changing, adapting and have fun doing it. :)

vee pee said it - that settles it.

Welcome!! Glad to have you here.

Vegan, it's like WayDale and the early Cafe days all over again when the dam broke and so much was exposed affecting so many people at once. There are some who absolutely refuse to believe that their little group is imperfect with serious problems and serious destruction of lives. Some are in shock and feel like the rug has been pulled out from under them. Some are relieved to find out that the 'red flags' they've been feeling, sensing and wondering about have real substance and validity. The reactions to this will range from violent outbursts to serious depression. Many of the folks who started out as staunch vee pee, craiggers and TWI defenders eventually came around to seeing how duped they were. I believe we'll see a lot of the same with this CESpool. :) Those slinging the mud and attacking others are great reminders of what became of some of us when we were fully indocrinated and letting others do our thinking for us.

Y, how do you reconcile that with the fact that there are many people who would agree with what you're saying yet believe totally different interpretations of the scriptures? What makes your, personal version of truth 'THE TRUTH'? Could it be those who "don't want to hear the truth" really just don't agree with your interpretation of 'the truth'? The 'exactness' examples you use may be 'absolute', but much of language isn't really that black & white/cut & dried. There's much in language that is vague. There are examples from scripture in my previous posts on here.

Do you mean I shouldn't have rejected those offers of filthy lucre?? :(

That there is the understatement of the year!! I think that might qualify as a Greasespot Gem!

Here, Here! I'll drink to that!

Cool, I'm thinking it was the burning alcohol and your fiery personality that wowed the patrons, not your banana slicing abilities. OR maybe the alcohol that DIDN'T burn off.

I'm not being sarcastic or nasty at all, Jonny. :) I only know you from here, but from what you have shared about Keno, your daughter and how you and your wife have raised your kiddos, I have the utmost respect and admiration for her. You, too, even though we do tend to disagree at times. I know your heart is in the right place - sometimes, I think you could communicate better, but that could just be a reflection of my own personal challenges.... hence, my signature.

Then, Darlin', you should know that it takes more than those two words "move on" to help folks move on. You're coming across as more cold-hearted, judgemental and impatient than I know you are. Maybe you should go spend some time with Mother Nature and a batch of salmon to send to me for stress relief.

Don't you dare excuse yourself (unless you farted)!! I just didn't get your point - and that's not your fault! I shouldn't be booth-hopping anyway. I'm just spreading germs along with the gum I keep putting under the tables. I think it's time me, my orange juice and Robotussin head off to bed.... You're right - the Bible isn't Black & White like we were taught and that's why I think it can't be considered "the truth" no matter what one's 'TRUTH' is.

DUDE!!! It's just NOT THAT EASY! and everyone isn't LIKE YOU or your wonderful wife! "Just Get Over It" is the same thing as saying, "Just Believe God" in TWIt and CESpool speak.... Ya gotta get in there and help dig those paths out of the trenches sometimes. I'm guessing you've never (or very seldom) gotten a PM from someone thanking you for what you shared and telling you how much your posts have helped them heal. I'm guessing you've never PM'd with someone who's still involved and trying to work things out in their head but too damm scared to post on the boards, but helped by what you've posted. I'm thinking you've never been contacted privately because your beating that dead horse has helped someone. People are quick to complain and the 'holier than thou' folks seem to post at a louder decibel than those who are getting help, seeing things anew, gaining their strength and growing more confident sometimes. Call it whatever you want to, but the PM's I get on a regular basis are the reason I keep coming back for the coffee and offering the danishes to the new folks. I'm sorry you don't get those PMs because I'm sure your posts help more folks than you realize. Quit beating the horse if it's dead to you, but realize it's still alive and well in the lives of others and that we are helping those folks. If you want quotes from some of the PMs I get on a regular basis let me know. I refuse to betray confidences, but I'll gladly share what I can.... I'll bet the ones Paw gets would melt your heart. I know the ones I get reduce me to heaving sobs sometimes because they are folks still going through the crap I was going through not so long ago. The fact that the CESpool is doing the same things to people is reprehensible to me. If I can help any of them, then, by golly, I'm going to do it despite your superior attitude.

Tom, in my effort to help others, I'm afraid I may have over-sprayed the Ozone to cover the fart smells and caused the MOG to pass out. I was just trying to help! Those dang "crop dusters" and "silent but deadlies"!!

But, Notta, how do you reconcile those verses with the verses that show men with multiple wives? How do you know that YOUR interpretation of those verses is 'THE truth'? The problem is that anyone can use scripture to prove anything they want. It's sort of like my job as an analyst. When a sales rep calls with a request for information I ask them what they are trying to prove and show to the client, then tailor my information to that goal. It's not lying, but I can pretty much make the numbers show whatever they want them to show IF I know what it is they want the customer to see. Once I know the desired outcome, I determine which criteria to use (e.g. domestic sales, certain product sales, certain customer classes, etc.) to prove the requested 'truth'. My reports are always "the truth" but that truth is dependent upon the desired 'proof'/'outcome'/'result' of the salesman. I believe we/leaders/religions do the same with the scriptures. Not to mention the fact that the scriptures we have today are the ones approved of by a contingency of politicians with ulterior motives. There's much that has been suppressed because it did not condone whatever control and power that political contingency may have had and/or wanted. What seems plain and clear common sense to one may not appear that way to others with ulterior motives or a different upbringing and religious teachings. Just look at how craiggers used scripture as justification for having sex with other men's wives.... Who's version is "the truth"? I'm not trying to be contentious, just showing how one can not use the Bible as their standard for truth because it's so reliant on private interpretation and that's really all any church offers, isn't it? Their private interpretation of what the Bible says "the truth" is.

Dot, that's an awesome summary of how cults manipulate take over our sensibilities. I sent this to my cousins who are in high school and just starting college. I told them it's a funny look at some of the ways I was sucked in and kept in the cult I was involved with. Obviously, the whole family knows about that drama, but they seem afraid to talk about it. Dunno if it's a way of trying to respect me or what, but I try to let them know I'm perfectly willing and able to talk about it. Maybe this will open the window a little more for them. Thank you for posting this!

:unsure: Maybe it's a generational thing, but my favorite and best roomies were men. And we were just that "roomies". (I did date the best friend of one, though). I'd choose a male roommate over a female roommate any day. Does remind me of a joke though: Never Lie to your Mother: John invited his mother over for dinner. During the course of the meal, his mother couldn't help but noticing how beautiful John's room-mate was. She had long been suspicious of a relationship between John and his room-mate, and this had only made her more curious. Over the course of the evening, while watching the two interact, she started to wonder if there was more between John and his room-mate than met the eye. Reading his mom's thoughts, John volunteered, "I know what you must be thinking, but I assure you Julie and I are just room-mates." About a week later, Julie came to John saying, "Ever since your mother came to dinner, I've been unable to find the silver gravy ladle. You don't suppose she took it, do you?" John said, "Well, I doubt it, but I'll write her a letter just to be sure." So he sat down and wrote: "Dear Mother, I'm not saying that you 'did' take the gravy ladle from my house, I'm not saying that you 'did not' take the gravy ladle but the fact remains that one has been missing ever since you were here for dinner." Several days later, John received a letter from his mother which read: "Dear Son, I'm not saying that you 'do' sleep with Julie, and I'm not saying that you 'do not' sleep with Julie. But the fact remains that if she was sleeping in her own bed, she would have found the gravy ladle by now. Love, Mom."

Ditto. Danny, that's a wonderful post! Sums up why Steve's post didn't "sit right" with me though I couldn't put my finger on it. If I had listened to my heart or at least looked into why I was having the "heart pains" that I was, I most likely wouldn't have ended up getting seriously involved with TWI. Instead, I trusted them and what THEY said the Bible said.... gee, kinda like that clip Dot posted in the Open Section. :blink: I understand kinda what you're saying, Steve, but I think there's a balance there that's not being taken into consideration. Dunno what the answer is, but it's certainly not in trusting others with what's in my best interest. :)

Not really all that easy..... Who's interpretation of God's word is truth? Which parts of the Bible really are God's word? What about those scrolls that are also considered by some to be God's word, but weren't included in the Bible for political reasons? What is the "truth" that those scriptures claim? Is the Bible the only place to get this alleged "truth"? "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise." Is this true? Is it "THE Truth"? How can one know? Which interpretation is true?

Hmmm.... good question. It used to be accepted that the priests and religious rulers had a pipeline to God and that they ultimately were in charge of "the truth". Whatever they said was believed to be the truth. It used to be accepted "truth" that the Earth was flat, that the Earth was the center of the universe, and, more recently, that we had 9 planets in our solar system.... Is "the truth" that most people seek to believe really the "how" and "why" are we here? A search for purpose? A lot of those who think they have "the truth" become so egotistical and dependent on their particular truth that they will go to absurd extremes to defend it - even to the point of killing. At least scientists have the "Scientific Method" as some sort of standard for their truths, but even that's fallible. It's all relative and subject to change at any moment.

WordWolf, you pretty much nailed it. :) I really feel for Elizabeth. I've so been there - thinking you're marrying your "Ephesians 3:20" man only to find out that he'll gladly throw you under the bus if someone pretending to speak for God tells him to....even if he deep down disagrees with said speaker. So much for the 'unalterable commitment' they teach. It seems to be conveniently forgotten when it's no longer in their best interest to promote it. Raf, I use those words, but the 'choice' ones I use would be censored here. :ph34r: I dunno if you remember, but I contacted you privately about attending some sort of 'intervention' with my ex. I was convinced that if I could get him to listen to sound reason that he'd actually see how effed up TWI, their advice and his obedience to them was. :( It was merely weeks before this was to happen when he decided he wanted a divorce.

Chrispy, I'm not sure if JAL was twisting his words either, but for what it's worth... TWI used that same counsel with my ex husband. In addition to likening me to the contentious woman in Proverbs and insinuating that I was 'not pleased to dwell' with him. They in effect, classified me as an 'unbeliever' after I spoke out about TWI. Since it's obvious that CES doctrine is still very similar to TWI's and their ability to twist and pervert scripture is equally astounding, it could be carry over doctrine from TWI. Raf, we were otherwise very happily married, but once I realized my ex was not going to protect, support and stand up for me it did cause lots of additional problems in the marriage. The respect, trust and security went out the window. So, in the end, yes, there were tons of problems.