Belle

Well, Bliss, now that you mention it..... <_< Just kidding..... Linda, you're correct and especially since I don't have a dog in this fight, I will refrain from coming up here cause it just gets my blood boiling when I read posts from the likes of uptown and this frisco person. David, Raf and others who aren't like that, I sincerely apologize.

Might I suggest, What the Hey, that VPW got this idea kinda scewed? Man's basic spiritual problem is sin, not the "accuracy and intergrity of God's Word." The statement VPW made in PFAL that you quoted, was a "hook," one of many that baited people into believing that VPW had all the answers. The whole Bible is about the problem of sin, and God's answer to it, Jesus Christ. In John 8:31 and 32, Jesus is teaching his disciples and makes the statement that "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my diciples. Then you will know the truth and the truth shall make you free." Well, hello, what will be free from? Keep reading and Jesus explains we will be free the bondage of sin. I Cor. 15: 33 and 34 come to mind: "Do not be mislead. Bad company corrupts good character. Come back to your senses as you ought and stop sinning: for their are some who are ignorant of God-I say this to your shame." Unfortunately, VPW never got to the point where he quit sinning. His corrupt character stayed corrupted, which is obvious by the "fruit" he left behind. And his corrupt character, influenced everything about his "ministry," including his teaching, example, etc. These things are really just a no-brainer for anybody who still has one left after escaping the cult. VPW and company's sin and corrupt character led many, many people astray. Thank the Lord, that as his sin is being exposed, we can "know the truth," and be set free from the bondage of sin. Amen. End of sermon for today.

ummmm....yeah.... you're right. Thanks!

(((((Psalmie and family))))) I'm so sorry, Psalmie. She's a beautiful kitty! Thank you for sharing her picture with us. I love the garden and stone memorial, too. Great closure, I agree. :)

From Wikipedia Does is, possibly, just boil down to whether one is living according to Jesus's command to 1) love God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength and 2) love your neighbor as yourself or whether one is living selfishly regardless of the impact on others?

sonofarthur, very good post and tone welcoming honest, respectful open dialog. :) I sort of quit limiting myself to the Bible when I left TWI and looked into the Gnostic Gospels, the Dead Sea Scrolls and some of the other ancient scrolls that have been found. I also looked into different "holy books" and the process Christianity has taken to get to where it is today. Seems you've been doing some of the same. It seems to me, that the more I read, the more "spiritual" I see things and the less "divisive" regarding people, Jesus and God.... I think I see "the body" a lot bigger and the lines forming distinctions between us as blurring. (Could be the quantum physics things I've been looking into also... ) I'm not sure how I see Jesus right now, honestly. I think he definitely had mastery of the connection with God that we can have and I think he was a great "tangible" example of what things are possible in our lives and on this eart. I don't think he was any more God than we are, but I don't we've fully comprehended what he came to teach us either. I think that we're so conditioned to pigeonhole and categorize things that we miss out on the big picture and I wonder if that's part of what SirGuess was saying. I'm sorry if this doesn't make sense. It's hard to describe and, since I'm still learning, subject to change on a regular basis. :P

So, is the Bible and your interpretation of it your only source of refrence?

Starbird, do you think the Bible is the only place God recorded his will? Do you think the Bible is inerrant? How about the deaths of innocent children? Is God responsible for that? Isn't he responsible for protecting them?

Some people believe that the devil came from political and religious leaders in order to control the masses.

Geeze, Garth... Do you just look for reasons to pick a fight? Bliss said that, after seeing how destructive these cults were she could see how parents would freak out about their kids getting involved with TWI. Have you never tried to put yourself in someone else's shoes? :huh: Not knowing all that much about TWI but knowing about Jonestown, Manson, etc. and seeing my kids do the complete personality turnaround like I know I did, I'd worry, too. Especially when TWI started pressuring their kids to cut communication with their families. And, most especially, back in the early days when the group was so new and not all that much was known about it. There wasn't some "internet" back then where you could look them up. There weren't many places at all to get information about TWI. It was like flying blind and wondering what the he11 your kids were getting into. Can't blame a parent for taking drastic measures for what they thought was a drastic situation. We all do the best we can and, for some parents, that's the best they could think to do. In the late 1990's my parents thought about doing the same thing. They were very close to shelling out thousands of dollars to have a coordinated "intervention" of some sort, but they were afraid that they might lose me forever if things didn't go well. Deprogramming "back in the day" may have been just as bad as the treatment the kids were getting in the cults, but folks like Steve Hassan don't operate that way. There's no "kidnapping" and physical restraint or anything along those lines. In fact, one lady I'm acquainted with actually "got her son back" thanks to an intervention/deprogramming week-end with her 21 year old son regarding some cult he had gotten himself involved with. TWI's too tame to even make a blip on the cult history radar. Destructive as he11? You betcha, but it's no Jonestown or Koresh compound and since we didn't try to ride the back of as comet, TWI's just not all that newsworthy.

I got an iPod for Christmas and I love the NPR podcasts I've downloaded, but I know there's a lot more out there and it's rather overwhelming since there's so much. Do you listen to podcasts? Which ones are your favorites? Do you stick to iTunes for your downloads or where else to you go to get some goodies?

Hey, FriscoGuy! Thanks for reminding me of why I never want to have anything to do with the CESpool dwellers!

Thanks so much, y'all!! (((((Greasespots)))) Just when I think I'm doing a really good job of getting over my way-brained TWIt thinking.... I read something like this and my mind automatically jumps to all the "more" (according to TWIt standards) I know I could be doing.... but all of that at the expense of the really good things that I'm already doing and enjoying doing. Things that, by TWIt standards are a waste of time and/or money. You know, things like, really helping people... It's amazing how some comments can dredge up that filthy silt at the bottom of the barrel.

Welcome, Starbird. I have to ask: Are you here to discuss things or to preach and pass judgement on folks? Are you interested in learning and, possibly considering what others think? Have you read our introduction threads at the top of the page? If not, I highly recommend it.

I just called to see if I could make a reservation. They are NOT open to the public. The gentleman I spoke with was very friendly and helpful. He said they were a school and that it was a mis-classification in the online directory. He even referred me to another location that he said was really nice and on the Gunnison River. We are trying to decide where to have our family reunion this year, so I just may check out his recommendation. :)

(((((LAE))))) I wish I could help. :( I've been reading poems all morning hoping to find something for you, but nothing seems to be right. I'm certain one of our resident vets or other special folks will have the perfect words for you. I'm terribly sorry for your loss.

WELCOME, sonofarthur! First cuppa joe is on the house. I hope you enjoy your visit here. Here's a link to the sticky that WW referred to: Welcome and a few tips This thread is also so good it's a stick, too: What is The Way? The biggest thing about TWI and those who tried to set up their own version of TWI is the lack of compassion and love and respect for THE WHOLE BODY of Christ. Loving your neighbor; treating others with respect and living well because of your love and not because of compulsion. They're more interested in "ever learning but never coming to the knowledge of Christ" - they'd rather conjugate Greek than actually encourage, build up and love folks. Pity, cause THAT's where the living is and THAT'S where the blessings are for TRUE Christians. And even non-Christians who live those principles (and there are lots of 'em) - are truly living the more abundant life that TWI and CES and the others merely study.

If this is the kind of people who come from CES and what y'all are taught it's no wonder the whole group hasn't collapsed on itself before now. Maybe y'all should call craig, he'd be a great President for your group!

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, KEVLAR!!! I HOPE IT'S THE BEST ONE YET!

Praying fervently for that oil to work really, really quick, Psalmie and for good news from you soon.

Uptown1's got us all figured out. I can't say a darn thing cause what I'm thinking of saying will get me banned from the cafe and I'm not ready to leave my gum collection, but I'm sure some of you other "do nothings" can help me out here....

YEAH - WHAT THE HECK??? Don't you know how much we miss you?? Have you seen the "Posters we haven't seen in a while" thread? Half the cafe has been moping around wondering how you're doing. Hopefully you'll be able to come back and play sometime soon.

ROFLMAO! Now, can you find George Carlin talking about the Toledo Window Box?

I John 3, thanks for the wonderful example of a CFF defender that you are. It really helps to see what kind of people are involved with CFF. ex, it gives me the heebie jeebies, too.

A Friend A friend is one who sits by you in fellowship.... Will tell your HFC where you've been.... And what you've said so that they Can spit in your face and try to force you to grow. THAT'S the kind of friends I had in TWI.