Belle

Dang, Abi. It just sucks to know we're doing everything we can to keep our pets healthy and, even then, we can't be sure it's safe. What did the vet say about his behavior? Not wanting to eat the food could be a good sign - that they can tell something's wrong with it and not necessarily that they are ill. Especially if they're eating the homemade food you made. I use Biljac and they don't use any gluten anything in their products. I've contacted them a couple of times about their food, asking different questions about the ingredients and have always gotten a fast, thorough, polite, informative response.

I'm so peeved that they won't release the companies involved - I'm wondering if there are human food companies involved or some of the same ones from the initial recall. They should stop any and all "food" related shipments from China immediately. I feel like calling all the companies I purchase food from and finding out if they receive any shipments from China for any of the ingredients in their food. Here's a working, constantly updated list of foods with Rice Protein: Itchmo Abi and Notta, I hope your critters are safe and healthy. Dove, Vixen enjoys a good salad as much as I do. She LOVES bell peppers - any color and will do amazing things to get a slice. She loves baby carrots and cherry tomatoes, too, but those have to be played with for a long time before consumption.

Exactly! We were expected to wash their feet, not the other way around. WE cleaned THEIR houses. WE moved THEIR crap. WE strung chaifs. WE brought refreshments. WE made elaborate cards. WE gave money for extravagant gifts. WE wrote thank you notes. WE hosted fellowship. WE served on the class crew. WE opened our homes. WE paid for the phone hook-ups. WE DID EVERYTHING. THEY taught the word. WHY? Because THIS is what they thrust down our throats to justify it: And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you; And to esteem them very highly in love for their work's sake. [And] be at peace among yourselves. 1 Th 5:11, 12 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of [their] conversation. Heb. 13:7 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that [is] unprofitable for you. Heb 13:17 Don't look at them in context - if you look at them in context it's harder to justify being a demanding, ungodly authoritarian figure. <_< Yesterday we had our "Annual Company Picnic" here at work - they set up tents and tables and catered BBQ; gave out prizes to the employees and we had a grand ole time. The line for the food was rather long and while we were eating and visiting and having a good time, I noticed that the owners, the CEO, CFO, Directors and HR Manager all sat at off to the side watching and enjoying seeing everyone have a good time. It wasn't until AFTER EVERY SINGLE EMPLOYEE had gone through the line that they went through the line and got their food. NEVER would that happen in TWI. In fact, even when there is a baby shower or bridal shower where a particular woman is the guest of honor and the one we're there to celebrate - they are not the first in line - it's the Right Reverend So & So or his wife - it's the WC who always go first in line - NOT the "Joe Believer" who should be the honored guest. Nope - the only "service" TWI leadership provide (d/s) is to "teach the werd". Total opposite of what Jesus taught. Those high places must be pretty comfy for TWI leadership.

This information really hit home for me because - I know this is going to be hard to believe - I'm typically a very strong, outspoken person with a tendency to be stubborn. It's not typical of me to be taken advantage of or to allow others to control me - especially not every aspect of my life. It bothers me, still, that I just gave them control lock, stock & barrel over my life. I got to the point where I was pretty much helpless in every area of my life. I mean in stupid simple things. I'd list examples, but it's just too darn embarrassing. I couldn't make a decision if my life depended on it. What gets me is that some of the folks knew what was going on - had to know the culture was emotionally, psychologically and spiritually unhealthy and did NOTHING to stop it. Dottie Moynihan has a degree in psychology, no? She counseled women who were raped - knew that was going on and did NOTHING. She had to have recognized the dynamics of the organization. *shaking my head* The control of information - not allowing us to think for ourselves.... no wonder we eventually got to where we couldn't think for ourselves. Remembering the letters sent to people at HQ that contained Chris Jordan's study on debt - IF TWI were a healthy environment they would have welcomed the discussion, debate and differing viewpoints - the recipients wouldn't have been scared to even read the letters - the leadership wouldn't have gone to great lengths to track down the source of this contraband information. I find it very unlikely that anyone left in TWI has a healthy mental state of being. Some are obviously more scarred than others, but nobody is completely unharmed from this kind of abuse.

Dang, MStar! That's MY old stomping grounds! Pity it's not September yet. Otherwise you could enjoy the best Blues Festival in the US. I went every year in high school and college. There's an ad for the Walnut Street Blues Bar in nGreenville, but I don't know anything about it.

LOL! True, too! Never had pickled garlic. Do you pickle it yourself? I, too, love garlic and add it to just about everything I cook. Fresh IS best - I agree 100%. I don't have a morsel/pestle though - just use a garlic press, chop or use it whole.

I can't find Waldo.

Satori, meet "OTHERS". Your reading comprehension has really gone downhill if you couldn't figure that one out. Short of martial law there isn't much more that can done. The cops had someone in custody that they were questioning as the perp. Someone as deranged as this guy was would've just waited for yet another day and another easier opportunity to do the same thing. It most likely wouldn't have changed anything and it's not the fault of the officers. P-Mosh, that's what I'm talking about. What're the cops going to do? Lock him up because he writes disturbing stuff in class? They have rules. The bad guys don't have any rules. It isn't feasible to have metal detectors at every entrance to every building on every campus. It isn't feasible and it isn't affordable. How many times a day do kids go in and out of their residence halls? How many kids and how many times a day do people go in and out of classrooms and buildings on campuses? I know it's frustrating, but short of martial law, there's just only so much that can be done. The campus police responded quicker than a lot of other campus police departments could/would due to the training they've had and the scares that they've had in the past. Is there learning to be had? Sure! But could more have been done than already was done? Possibly, but I think it's a tragedy to lay blame at the feet of anyone other than the killer himself. Questioning is one thing, out and out saying that you know darn well how they should have done things better, especially when we don't have all the facts, is another thing. *edited to take out hyper-emotional statements

If you pop your blackheads in a black light they turn neon orange......

like what and how?

Yep, total derail! So much for this thread actually accomplishing anything now.

Obvious signs to everyone in 20/20, but not anything law enforcement can act upon. AGAIN, bad guys have no rules, but law enforcement's hands are tied in so many ways. Blame law enforcement, all you want, but you don't know the whole story.... you have no idea the red tape and laws they're up against on a daily basis. Much as they may have wanted to, there's nothing the police could have done. Again, that airmchair must be pretty damn comfortable. Please, give us more of your hindsight wisdom, like that does any good...

Those armchairs must be pretty comfortable for you quarterbacks. I hope you're never in a "real" position of ever having to make the same calls as those trying to protect innocent lives.

That's precisely what he's saying. He seriously believes Christ will come back with PFAL in one arm. For more information, please visit the Soap Opera and Doctrinal for more on Mike. He's notorious for derailing threads like this. <_< Oak, I began questioning things we were taught a year or so before the Y2K hysteria started, but had become so beaten down that I didn't trust myself to think straight and certainly didn't feel 'intelligent' enough to even be able to argue that they were wrong, no matter what kind of evidence I found contrary to what they were teaching. Like I said on another thread, I was accused of visiting the internet before I did because they didn't think I was smart enough to come up with half the things I was questioning. It started with little things like "epiluo", the face of the deep, the Eve-lesbian thing, debt, etc. I was building, in my own mind, a case against them teaching "the rightly divided word". Every time I would ask questions, I'd get shot down, ignored or placated with "we'll talk later". THEN came the big "stay off the internet" announcement. It was a clarion call for me - "they're hiding something" - What is on the internet that they don't want us to know?? That's when I found WayDale and that you had been studying a lot of the same things. :) I started, then, with Raf's Blue Book Commentary and Errors in PFAL, Research Geek's Top 10 and J Barrax's PFAL Review. Then, I got tired of looking at TWI teachings again, even though it was a beneficial exercise to see how much error there was in everything we were taught. I ventured into the history of how the Bible came to be, how Christianity came to be, what was "banned from the Bible" and why, etc. I looked into the Nag Hammadi Scrolls, the Dead Sea Scrolls, the scrolls concerning Mary Magdalene, The Gnostic Gospels, Research by Elaine Pagels..... I looked into "What the Bleep", "Why People Believe Weird Things", Reiki, Chakras, etc. I looked into things I would have been afraid to look into while involved with TWI. I've not come to any conclusions about what I actually DO believe, but I'm okay with that. I have come to the conclusion that TWI was full of crappola and if there's anything good to salvage from it, then it will come back up in my own personal quest - no need to hold onto anything TWI.

Thanks, y'all. I didn't write it, but it sure struck a nerve when I read it. TWI leadership were masters at manipulation and the results have been devastating to so many of us. Here's more that may sound familiar: Emotional abuse victims can become so convinced that they are worthless that they believe that no one else could want them. They stay in abusive situations because they believe they have nowhere else to go. Their ultimate fear is being all alone. Types of Emotional Abuse Abusive Expectations * The other person places unreasonable demands on you and wants you to put everything else aside to tend to their needs. * It could be a demand for constant attention, or a requirement that you spend all your free time with the person. * But no matter how much you give, it's never enough. * You are subjected to constant criticism, and you are constantly berated because you don't fulfill all this person's needs. Aggressing * Aggressive forms of abuse include name-calling, accusing, blaming, threatening, and ordering. Aggressing behaviors are generally direct and obvious. The one-up position the abuser assumes by attempting to judge or invalidate the recipient undermines the equality and autonomy that are essential to healthy adult relationships. This parent-child pattern of communication (which is common to all forms of verbal abuse) is most obvious when the abuser takes an aggressive stance. * Aggressive abuse can also take a more indirect form and may even be disguised and "helping." Criticizing, advising, offering solutions, analyzing, proving, and questioning another person may be a sincere attempt to help. In some instances however, these behaviors may be an attempt to belittle, control, or demean rather than help. The underlying judgmental "I know best" tone the abuser takes in these situations is inappropriate and creates unequal footing in peer relationships. This and other types of emotional abuse can lead to what is known as learned helplessness. Denying * Denying a person's emotional needs, especially when they feel that need the most, and done with the intent of hurting, punishing or humiliating (Examples) * The other person may deny that certain events occurred or that certain things were said. confronts the abuser about an incident of name calling, the abuser may insist, "I never said that," "I don't know what you're talking about," etc. You know differently. * The other person may deny your perceptions, memory and very sanity. * Withholding is another form of denying. Withholding includes refusing to listen, refusing to communicate, and emotionally withdrawing as punishment. This is sometimes called the "silent treatment." * When the abuser disallows and overrules any viewpoints, perceptions or feelings which differ from their own. * Denying can be particularly damaging. In addition to lowering self-esteem and creating conflict, the invalidation of reality, feelings, and experiences can eventually lead you to question and mistrust your own perceptions and emotional experience. * Denying and other forms of emotional abuse can cause you to lose confidence in your most valuable survival tool: your own mind. Dominating * Someone wants to control your every action. They have to have their own way, and will resort to threats to get it. * When you allow someone else to dominate you, you can lose respect for yourself. Emotional Blackmail * The other person plays on your fear, guilt, compassion, values, or other "hot buttons" to get what they want. * This could include threats to end the relationship, totally reject or abandon you, giving you the the "cold shoulder," or using other fear tactics to control you. Invalidation * The abuser seeks to distort or undermine the recipient's perceptions of their world. Invalidating occurs when the abuser refuses or fails to acknowledge reality. For example, if the recipient tells the person they felt hurt by something the abuser did or said, the abuser might say "You are too sensitive. That shouldn't hurt you." Here is a much more complete description of invalidation Minimizing * Minimizing is a less extreme form of denial. When minimizing, the abuser may not deny that a particular event occurred, but they question the recipient's emotional experience or reaction to an event. Statements such as "You're too sensitive," "You're exaggerating," or "You're blowing this out of proportion" all suggest that the recipient's emotions and perceptions are faulty and not be trusted. * Trivializing, which occurs when the abuser suggests that what you have done or communicated is inconsequential or unimportant, is a more subtle form of minimizing. Unpredictable Responses * Drastic mood changes or sudden emotional outbursts. Whenever someone in your life reacts very differently at different times to the same behavior from you, tells you one thing one day and the opposite the next, or likes something you do one day and hates it the next, you are being abused with unpredictable responses. * This behavior is damaging because it puts you always on edge. You're always waiting for the other shoe to drop, and you can never know what's expected of you. You must remain hypervigilant, waiting for the other person's next outburst or change of mood. * An alcoholic or drug abuser is likely to act this way. Living with someone like this is tremendously demanding and anxiety provoking, causing the abused person to feel constantly frightened, unsettled and off balance. Verbal Assaults * Berating, belittling, criticizing, name calling, screaming, threatening * Excessive blaming, and using sarcasm and humiliation. * Blowing your flaws out of proportion and making fun of you in front of others. Over time, this type of abuse erodes your sense of self confidence and self-worth. SOME of us were abused in this manner..... in the 90's it was most of us. THIS is why, like Eyes mentioned in her 1986 Lead thread, we didn't speak up even when we knew deep down we were right. This is why, even now, so many of us struggle with guilt for not being good enough, for being kicked out, for leaving even when we knew it was right. THIS is why, even now, so many people go to great leaps of logic to justify the behavior of TWI leadership.

The early morning murders appeared to the police to be a domestic issue and, not unlike a man killing his girlfriend and a neighbor in a neighborhood or apartment complex, the police considered it to be an isolated event. It looked like an isolated event and, I suppose, if the media had been alerted to that and started their broadcast at 8am, they would have portrayed it as such. A neighborhood would not be evacuated because of it. Where's the killer? They wouldn't want to know because of worry that he would kill someone else, much less a bunch of other people. It would be to catch him - period - for the crime he committed. It looked from all accounts, like a mad, upset, jilted lover who killed his intended target and the poor resident assistant who tried to protect her and then went on his way. They still have NOT connected the two shootings. For all we know, it could be a horrible coincidence that a jilted lover shot his intended victim and innocent bystander on the same day that some friggin' lunatic went ballistic at another part of campus. You don't think the cops talked to witnesses and other residents in the hall when the shooting happened? You don't think they set about trying to identify & catch the killer right then? You don't think they thought through every scenario and tried to decide the best course of action? Furthermore, I suspect that many students would have read the e-mail and continued on with their daily routines, no matter what time the e-mail came out. In fact, many students did just that anyway. They got the e-mail, read it and then went on to class like normal. *shrug* Again, it did not appear that there was any danger or anything to be concerned about. There's a lot more to a "lock down" than the general population can fathom. That wasn't enough evidence to warrant a lock-down and, if they had implemented a lock down, it still would have taken a long time to get everyone in place and still would not have stopped that murderer. Kids were walking across campus, kids were scattered all over the place - how're you going to communicate instantly to 26,000+ people spread out over many, many acres, buildings and properties? You can't do it. AND, trying to do it could cause more mayhem and chaos, putting more lives in danger than originally could/would have been. Frustrating as it is - the police did everything they knew to do and everything the evidence led them to do. It's just a tragedy and blaming them doesn't change the fact that too many lives were destroyed and forever changed. It's not the fault of the police. This is my little rant - not to anyone in particular, just how friggin' frustrated I get when the police are blamed for doing their job to the best of their ability: People have NO IDEA the hours upon hours of training law enforcement goes through. They have NO IDEA the stress and pressure put on them to protect lives - even the lives of idiots doing stupid stuff that could get themselves killed. They have NO IDEA what it's like having so many rules to follow when the bad guys don't have any rules. The police get blamed for not being perfect and it ....es me off to no end. People should know what it's like putting your life on the line every freaking day! People should know what it's like pulling over cars for speeding, running red lights, etc many times a day not knowing if this is "the one" that could be the lunatic who tries to kill you. People should know what it's like getting blamed every time a bad guy gets away with something. People should know what it's like facing off with a guy who's got a gun knowing that if you a) shoot the em effer & kill him you're going to be persecuted for not waiting long enough to give the guy a chance to surrender b) don't shoot him in time and he kills someone, including yourself, you're going to be persecuted for not shooting quick enough to protect lives, including your own. Bad guys don't have any rules - law enforcement has miles upon miles of red tape and rules. They're d@mned if they do ~ d@mned if they don't. It's a wonder anyone wants to be in law enforcement these days. I wish everyone had to go through 1/1 billionth of the guilt, stress and fear that an officer does on a daily basis. THEN, people might not be so quick to judge when things like this happen. They aren't God - they're human - humans with an extraordinary sense of duty and responsibility that tears them up when they feel they've let the public down. Could no one else tell that the VT chief was near tears every time he was interviewed? You think those men and women on the police forces involved slept a wink last night? You think they aren't already beating themselves up for something that was completely beyond their control and scope of knowledge to be able to prevent?

Another tactic TWI expertly applied to get us to ignore those "gut feelings" and red flags waving in our face. I think back on how the longer I was involved in TWI, the less capable I felt of making my own decisions. It's because we weren't allowed to and when we did, we were second guessed or shot down. They treated us like we were stupid. When I started asking questions about TWI doctrine and practice, even before I found WayDale or GSpot, they accused me of going online because, "I couldn't have possibly thought of that on my own." How stupid do they think we are?? Here's how they did it: Based on an adaptation of work from Alice Miller's For Your Own Good and John Bradshaw's Healing the Shame That Binds You Authority figures (AF) can be parents, partners, teachers, principals, supervisors, religious figureheads, cult leaders, etc. Dependents can be children, partners, students, employees, religious followers, etc. What matters is that there is a power imbalance and a dependence of some sort, whether physical, financial, "spiritual," psychological or emotional. 1. AF's are the masters of dependents. 2. AF's alone decide what is right and wrong. 3. They alone make up the definitions, the rules, and the "consequences" (i.e. punishment) 4. Dependents are held responsible for the AF's feelings (anger, disappointment, embarrassment, humiliation, happiness and unhappiness) 5. The AF is only responsible and accountable for good things that happen, never the bad ones. Thus the AF' appears to always be in the right and when things go wrong, the dependent is always blamed and feels responsible and guilty. 6. The AF tries to exercise total control of the dependent by controlling his thoughts, feelings and behavior. Whenever this control is not absolute, the AF feels threatened. 7. The dependent's individuality is minimized as much as possible by the AF. 8. The AF creates an intricate system of punishments and rewards which rob the dependent of any sense of inner direction and esteem. 9. The following freedoms listed by Virginia Satire are denied to the dependent as much as possible: The freedom to perceive To think and interpret To feel To want, need, and chose 10. The AF never (or rarely) admits mistakes or apologizes. 11. All of the above take place in a way which does not expose the AF's true motives and none of this is openly talked about. No "back talk" is allowed Some of the Consequences * Mistakes are concealed * People are under constant stress * Needs are frustrated, denied * Fear dominates * Power is based on fear, not respect * Information is withheld and distorted * Information flow is primarily from top down * Behavior is forced; does not come naturally * Behavior is not consistent with true feelings, which adds to the stress * Conflicts and problems are blamed on the dependent's "poor attitudes" and "character flaws." All of this tears the dependent person apart, causing self-alienation and even self-loathing. The dependent person loses faith in his/her own mind and feelings with devastating self-esteem consequences. Depression, rage, mood swings, co-dependency, self-injury and self-destruction are typical outcomes. If the authority figure is a parent the person will likely develop symptoms of various "disorders" such as the so-called Borderline Personality disorder, Social Anxiety Disorder, Anoexia, Bulemia etc.

Dang, Eyes! Thank you for taking the time to type all that out and relay to us yet one more example of how expendable people are to TWI. How the heck can that outfit claim to stand for God?? By their fruit ye shall know them. Sounds like learned helplessness to me. They had beat everyone down to the point y'all didn't trust your own instinct, gut, 'still small voice' and, when you did, they made it such that you couldn't do anything about it for fear of the repercussions.

Well, y'all know I'm quick to defend any law enforcement office because I know what they go through and how hard they try to protect the public - even from themselves. It just ....es me off to no end to see them second guessing the VT Police. Angry They did the best they could with the information they had. How DARE the media roast them and stir up controversy where there is none?? Even the students are saying that they thought the police did the best they could, but with the raw emotion and vulnerability of those kids right now, the media is just feeding on contorting their memory and reason. Did I say it ....es me off?? Angry I turned to CNN or Fox or some other station last night to see if there were any updates and Bill O'Reilly was on. What a fargin' foot! I wanted to shoot him through the tv. Bastard!! Kids are dead! Professors are dead! dang happens - horrible, awful, tragic dang happens and, too many times, there's just nothing that could have been done to stop it.

Take it back to the store, Abi. They should give you your money back on it. If not, I'd write the company. You shouldn't have to pay for something the dogs won't eat. I feed Vixen Bil Jac and she loves it. I did the "bowl test" they recommend with some samples.... samples - lots of pet stores have loads of samples of other products so you can try them with your dog before buying a bag. Bil Jac usually has a $5 off coupon for the next bag in their food bags. I may still have some lying around here and will look if you want. When switching pet food you're supposed to slowly switch over by adding just a little of the "new" food to the "old" food over several weeks. Because of the scare many people aren't doing that and don't have the luxury of trusting the old food enough to do it. This very well could be the problem with the food and with hyper-sensitive pet owners at this point (which is completely understandable). Nutra is being proactive and, I suspect that since they don't use gluten in their food, that contamination is most likely not the problem.

Very curious! I just haven't been online to ask yet. No good excuse like an awesome concert, though, just not online. Not sure if I have a way to record my tone deafness, in which case it might not help at all, but will talk to the resident experts at work about how to do that. I'm also excited to look into Danny's suggestions. Thank you!!

Very interesting. Thanks both of you.

I found where craig taught it and, because my notes are very sparse on the subject, it means that he had already taught it in depth somewhere previously. I write (wrote) pretty fast and between my notes and my ex's we could pretty much make a transcript of any teaching where both of us were. These are notes from the Advanced Class Special that was taped and re-run "on the field". We took it at a KOA campground over several week-ends in 1997. Not that it will be the same for everyone but these notes are from 5/7/97, Saturday morning session: He's talking about Cain being the prototype for those born of the seed of the serpent: Muses wrote in praise to spirits Hallelujah chorus was written under total possession by Handel Einstein said he didn't speak until he was 3 years old - he "willed himself not to speak baby talk" Admits the theory of relativity came to him by revelation.... from the wrong god. Olympics to honor pagan gods - Also had festivals, music, events to honor pagan gods. Ali - Islam got the glory - he was born again but used by the devil spirit realm. There are seed boys moving him. Timothy - authority of woman in childrearing Ishmael was seed and "made sport" with Isaac Philistines "made sport" - homo manipulation of Samson Abraham was told by God to listen to Sarah and put out Ishmael. Many references in this section that say "the lord said" refer to the god of this world, not God Almighty. Sold Jacob to Ishmaelites - studying to figure this one out, not teaching SNS until sure.

Good point! Dan Brown and the Knights of the Templar may agree with you on that one.

Craig taught it to, Bolshevik. Where do you think he learned it? ;) Craig, most likely, took it to more extremes and vivid descriptions of it. I do remember Craig teaching it and earlier in the thread, think I mentioned where he taught it. ROFLMAO! The one time someone was told NOT to study something vee pee taught.