Belle

WG, they teach that anyone can be saved, but only the faithful are in the Household and going to receive rewards at the bema and are currently allowed the protection and blessings of God. They even teach that the Epistles are written to them and them alone because they are written to "The Faithful in Christ." And remember that "no one can truly say that Jesus is Lord but by spirit (e.g. speaking in tongues). So, just because someone claims Romans 10:9-10, if they don't speak in tongues they can't really claim to be born again. Those who don't give minimum 15% of their income to TWI (not just give to whomever they choose), won't get God's spit. They may as well teach that they are the only ones who can be saved as far as I'm concerned. In fact, it seems like that's what they do teach when you really look at it.

They teach in the new class that sex outside the marriage is wrong. This includes pre-marital sex. They also go over bestiality being wrong. --> I'm having computer problems, but I will try to type up part of the syllabus this week. The wife is still in subjection to the husband and he has the final say on matters, but if they disagree on a big matter then they are to "hold it in abeyance" until both can agree. --> --> --> --> --> -->

The only reason GS Cafe would appear to be heading anywhere is because of these stupid polls, beetchin and whining. Maybe we need a whine & cheese booth right next to the Soap Opera booth, Paw.

The good old double standard and hypocrisy is alive an well at TWI. Tom, do they have the The Myth of the Six Million and Babylon Mystery Religion? Are they selling the books that say those books were lies?

I hardly think 15 votes qualifies as a complete look at the board. I wouldn't be surprised if most people don't vote just because so many are sick of this "GS is going downhill" crap.

What that Strange guy says. ;)--> That's how and why I voted too.

Hiya WayGB, It's so nice to have the option of coming here or not. Reading and posting or not. Something you don't really have the option to choose between, do you? Your people are assigned to to read and report back on these posts and others are forbidden to come here (but the TWI website is okay?) under penalty of becoming possessed. No choice either way, is there? When talking to your computer and justifying the abhorrent secrets of TWI gets old, we'll gladly welcome you. ;)-->

Now let that dog try to get me! ___________________________ Now all I need is a matching purse and I'll make a fortune on Ebay.

I'm rather impressed with his observations and impressions of PFAL. I'm also somewhat flattered that he used his money and took the time to order the stupid book so he could see what we were taught. If you (anyone) haven't been to the doctrinal section yet, I highly recommend it. I'm not brave enough to jump into anything down there, but I definitely enjoy reading.

Maybe most people consider this too petty of a thread to waste time on. ;)-->

Zixar, with all due respect I hardly think 32 voters represents the whole picture here. I also tend to think the vote changes on the day or mood of the people voting. I just started posting, but I've been lurking for years...YEARS, Zixar. I've posted my story in the proper section and hopefully, I have communicated how much this website has helped me and so many of the individual posters, even some who are given a hard time by others. Heck, I still hold out hope that members of the WAYGB will wake up, fess up and actually help those they've deceived see the truth about TWI. (I'm not holding my breath, but I don't see how they can continue to read awful things they know are true and still stand with those people) Don't underestimate the silent majority. You don't always know they're there, but they're there.

Thank you all so much. excathedra - You make me laugh every time I log onto here. I look forward to really getting to know you better. def59 - Thanks, def! Amazingly, it is already so much better now that I don't have to pretend to love TWI and its ways. lindyhopper - Funny how that life getting better thing follows those who leave TWI. You people on here have no idea how much you've helped me in the past few years. I couldn't even begin to express my gratitude. The Girl from Oz - I don't know if it's comforting or alarming that so many "cults" have so much in common. I suppose it's nice to know that there are others who know where you're coming from and why you're skittish about some things. "New light" becomes "old wineskins" in TWI. "New light" is also akin to "the present truth" which I think I read from Refiner that the JW's also use. I learned on here that the verse used for the "present truth" line is actually a vagrant mis-interpretation and twisting of the scriptures. I never did understand how if God never changes and His word is carved in stone how there could be "new light". One of those things you just don't ask about to avoid causing problems. Glad to have you here. :)--> bowtwi - I didn't mean to make you cry. I'm actually so much better now that I've been able to move on. :)--> Thanks for reading my story. Hopefully it will help other lurkers out there. gladtobeout - Thanks for the offer to talk. I just may take you up on that one day. Better yet, maybe I'll be able to swing through Indiana or meet you at the weenie roast?

Do they still have Craig's book for sale? and are they still pushing The Myth of the Six Million and Babylon Mystery Religion?

I thought it was good that people were talking bad about TWI. I remember telling my twig coordinator that if people were so bent on attacking it then we had to be doing something right. The devil didn't want people to know the truth we were teaching. I've also always been a bit rebellious, so doing something people thought was rebellious was delightful to me.

I don't think so either, ex. I think people are just having fun. About that cow - I don't remember what Amy Vanderbilt says exactly. I'll see if I can find it, but I think you do add more if you get steak and milk, but ground is cheaper.

((((((OAKSPEAR))))) I'll give you a call and even pick up the beer brats,sauerkraut and tater chips! Lindyhopper- Here's the rest of my story and you'll be very surprised at the straw that broke the camel's back so to speak. By this time I was really and truly frustrated. Trying to do everything they told us to do perfectly and with a smile - attending meeting after meeting, teaching and leading meetings all the time, praying with my prayer buddy, scheduling witnessing events, filling out reports, checking up on people, finding free places for us to have big meetings, keeping the house spotless, etc. It was so obvious that we were expected to just keep our mouths shut and continue doing whatever we were told like nothing had happened. I couldn’t handle it. I especially hated being called on to pray for the root locations, the board of directors, the upcoming classes and the Way Disciples. I felt like such a fake. I knew there was more going on than we were being led to believe. People were acting strange and leadership was tight-lipped. There were hardly ever any announcements about anything. So I went to the Internet and found GreaseSpot. I was completely shocked to learn of all the people who had left and all the evil that I never even suspected. I was also afraid that I was going to get possessed for reading and that all the leaders would know I had been on the web site. I was paranoid for a long time, but I read everything I could. I printed stuff out a few times, but was too afraid my husband would find out. I didn’t sleep for a month lying in bed thinking of how to handle this. I did print out some generic stuff about cults and bought the book, “The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse” and showed it to my husband to see what his response would be. He went bezerk and was scared that I was going to do something to get us mark and avoided. I could see he was more concerned about being kicked out of the ministry and outside God’s protection than that we just might be in some cult. I knew then that I could not tell him about GreaseSpot Caf?r he would probably turn me in and then our marriage would be split. As a side note, other than this ministry situation, we had a great marriage. We had so much fun together and everywhere we went people thought we were the happiest couple they had ever met. We felt that way too. But now I had this big bad dark secret and I realized that I couldn’t truly share my heart with my husband. I decided that if The Way was bad and not to be trusted, then we needed to re-evaluate everything we had been taught. I started with debt and could not find anything to back up their teaching. I got in trouble every time I brought it up, though. I questioned quite a few other teachings and on a fellowship level was told that I was right and that the teaching was wrong or that the teaching was right, but just not explained well enough. These “corrections” never made it past the limb Way Corps and some didn’t even get past the branch Way Corps. Anything I came up with that contradicted what we had been taught was brushed aside and dismissed. Who was I to think I was some Bible scholar? Since they weren’t going to do anything about it I started teaching the things I found in our fellowship. Some people got excited again and starting to question things and look things up on their own instead of just re-reading whatever The Way had taught. Other people treated me like I had leprosy and were probably concerned that they would get in trouble for having heard me teach something that could be construed as controversial. The whole time my husband was growing more impatient with me and more scared that I was going to get us mark and avoided. I was learning more from Greasespot and getting madder. Then The Way came out with the statement that they have never had a policy on debt and that they don’t tell people what to do. I was really ....ed about that. People in fellowship had admitted that they were really peeved also. However, the other leadership and the Way Corps in the state said that they had never told anyone to sell their house. They said they never pressured people to sell or to continue renting if they didn’t want to. I was flabbergasted! Did they have selective memory or were they just brain damaged? I gave a few specific examples that I personally knew of and since they couldn’t deny those examples they said they were isolated events. That made me even angrier because they were now lying and they knew it and they knew I knew it. I convinced my husband to buy a house and he was actually excited about it. He had asked about examples of people who had paid cash for a house and how it could be done. We asked for permission to contact them (if they existed). The answer we got was that maybe WE couldn’t pay cash for a house, but we could be saving money so that OUR KIDS would be able to do so. Wouldn’t it be great if we were able to set our children up for a successful debt-free life? We decided to buy and had fun during the whole process and seemed to be getting back to our happy selves. Then they came out with additional teachings on debt and how it IS wrong. Just because they don’t have a policy on debt doesn’t mean that it’s okay with God to borrow money, they said. I listened to the teachings and couldn’t believe how they totally twisted the scriptures and chose only those that supported their view of debt. It was sickening. My husband started regretting buying the house and wished that we hadn’t. He wanted to sell it and go back to renting. A long time (years) passed as I kept my secret and continued to marvel at all the skeletons in The Way’s closet and pray for my husband to realize the treachery in The Way. I tried to share with him some of the doctrinal things I was learning and starting to see, but he had an answer for everything and we usually ended up fighting. My only support was Greasespot and your posts. I watched them every day and wished that I could contribute and get involved with the fun and friend related posts and prayer requests, but did not want to take a chance on posting and saying something that would alert people in The Way to who I was. I wanted to tell people what was going on, but I was afraid that we were being fed mis-information and I would be caught if I posted something. It was a very lonely and depressing time. When I talked to some friends who told me about another friend of ours working at HQ. They said that she wanted to leave after her first year there but was told she had signed up for two years and could not leave. Furthermore, she wanted to move and go to nursing school, but didn’t have the money. This woman had given so much to TWI already and had followed their rules to a T. She deserved to live someplace nice and to get the education she wanted so that she could make more than $6/hour. I wrote her a letter and copied Chris Jordan’s study on debt and sent it to her. I was afraid of getting caught, so I sent it with no return address. There is so much fear at HQ and in this woman’s life that when she saw the letter she was terrified and ran to her leadership with the letter lest she be caught with contraband research. They traced the letter back to me. I was confronted by leadership and accused of other things I had nothing to do with. I was appalled at the lengths they went to in order to find out who sent that letter. It showed me just how controlling, isolating and just plain wrong the group was. I had reached my limit. When they finally left our home I told my husband that this was the most ungodly group of people I have ever experienced and that I would not be going back to any other function. I couldn’t believe how they nit-pick everything to death and pry into people’s lives, spy on them and just look for ways and reasons to chew people out – all in the name of God. I told him that I wanted us to remain married, but that I was fully aware that they would recommend that we split. He denied that would happen. He asked me to reconsider saying that this would be no way to raise our children with the parents divided on the Word. He said that I was turning my back on God. I insisted that I wasn’t; it was the ministry I was turning my back on, but I knew this would be the beginning of the end. I think this is where I hit rock bottom spiritually, emotionally and personally. I quit reading the Bible. I didn’t go to any church or have anything to do with any sort of religion. I couldn’t and I didn’t even care. My husband was very upset that I didn’t at least try to find a church so that he could feel I wasn’t a totally lost cause. Then he started disagreeing with every decision that I made and I could tell he was getting counseling from the local leadership and probably talking to the Way Corps on the phone when I wasn’t around. He was accusing me of not deferring to him and of going behind his back to do things I knew he wouldn’t want me to do. I desperately wanted a divorce by this time since I could tell it was a hopeless situation, but I was afraid to ask for one. Maybe I just did not want to face the fact that a once very great relationship was over because my husband loves a cult more than he loves me. I talked to my favorite aunt about the situation and I could tell that she and the rest of my family would be very relieved and supportive if I were to divorce. They said they were seeing glimpses of the girl they loved and who had had so much vitality and joy before getting married. Eventually, my husband and I decided it was time for each of us to move on in our separate directions. Thankfully we worked everything out amicably and did not have a problem deciding on how we split things up. We have been divorced for a while now and I can’t even begin to describe the feeling of relief and freedom and peacefulness I have in my life now. My earthly family that I was encouraged to cut ties with has been the most supportive, encouraging and stable. I thank God that I refused to follow that direction from leadership. I’ve also been seeing a therapist and put on an anti-depressant. Both have made a huge difference in how I handle, cope with and see things. I’m feeling stronger every day. I’ll probably be able to quit both before too long. I had read several times on here about people saying that if you couldn’t tell your spouse everything, especially about how you feel about The Way then it wasn’t really a good marriage. I also read that people had stuck it out and ended up with the entire family getting out together. It took years, but I realized that we were not in the second group no matter how much I wanted us to be. My husband is so deceived that he thinks he is following God’s will, but he’s really following the ministry’s will and he has chosen them over his family. It’s very sad and my heart continues to ache for him. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it. :)--> If you’ve made it this far, I’m amazed and many thanks for reading. I already feel like I know y’all so well from reading the posts here for such a long time. I’m looking forward to really becoming a part of the Greasespot Caf?nd building relationships with y'all here. ~~~~~~~~

Is that like cow tipping?

In the "Living God's Word as a Family" class they tell the single people that they should put all their time and effort into dating people within the household (meaning TWI). Then they say that if there aren't many other singles your age involved in your area that you should invite people to fellowship and maybe they might turn on to the Word. It's covered in depth in the class and written in the syllabus. If you're not "in" you're being groomed to be "in" and if you don't buy the line, then you will be dumped quicker than you can say "household". They also teach that any sex outside the marriage relationship is wrong. It is no longer okay to have sex before you get married. Double-dating is encouraged to keep things safe and light and avoid the temptation to do things that might lead to you wanting to have sex.

Did you ever end your prophecy or tongues with "in the name of Jesus Christ" or "Amen"? I've done that a few times and heard others do it. I wonder if that's an indication of who was prepared ahead of time and who wasn't. It always amazed me that God knew what the proper words for the "present truth" were to use in manifestations.

This is amazing. My whole image of UH is being shattered right before my eyes. I never thought about these things, but the fact that tithing wasn't taught until UH got involved is pretty interesting. Danny, when you put it like that we do sound pretty silly throwing stuff away in celebration of a man (but we don't worship men). I did mention giving away some things they suggested I throw away and they told me that it would just be passing to someone else the devil spirits and the evil associations with the things. "Everything give off something" they would say but then they make fun of fung shui and "spiritualists". When I'm not blinded by their logic it's so easy and painful to see how idiotic the things are that I believed.

Thank y’all very much! This is not easy to do, but hopefully it will help those who are waiting for loved ones to get out. I am now divorced and out of TWI. My ex-husband (I hate using that word) is still in. I have been lurking for a long time, so I already feel like I know most of you. :)--> I figure it’s time for you to get to know me. I’ll get more active once I get a computer at home. Right now I’m stuck using the library and some of you know how difficult that can be. Raf – unless that’s sweet tea (southern style) I’ll take the coffee with lots of cream and sugar, please. Excathedra – Thank you. I’m working on healing myself and those relationships that suffered so much while I was involved with TWI. Thankfully family love, when it’s how it should be, is unconditional and always there waiting for you to come back around. I’m glad my family is like that. Tom – I love snowcones…especially the blue ones that turn your lips and teeth blue. :D--> Lindy – Thanks for the greetings. Yes, I wish it had been as easy as just leaving. The fact that it isn’t should have raised flags for us. My therapist is amazed that someone as “smart and plucky” as I am fell into a group like TWI (his words). I’m teaching him quite a bit about the cult methodology and how most of us are probably too smart for our own good. ;)--> The Girl from Oz – Thanks for the welcome. I’m surprised at how many cults there are out there and how many people get sucked into abusive situations like ours. I don’t believe the “sucker born every minute” garbage because I don’t consider myself a sucker, but I do believe that wolves in sheep’s’ clothing can be very deceitful when someone hungers for a personal relationship with God. Thankfully they’ll have to answer for that to someone more powerful than I am. Shellon – Those unannounced visits were the worst. The more involved I got the more I realized they were checking out my surroundings and looking for devil spirits and things that would carry them in my apartment. It was also pressure, even my friends usually call before coming over. Sheesh! Don’t you wish we all had felt the freedom to talk about things that really bothered us with each other while we were going through it? WaywardWayfer – Thank you. I can’t believe how many stories parallel each other. You’d a thunk we would have met someone going through it already so we could avoid it. --> Well, here’s my continuing saga: I began to withdraw and not talk to anyone, how could I? Not one of them was trustworthy. I was so lonely because we had been told that if family, friends and co-workers refused to hear the Word and take the class that they were not worthy of our time and were not to be trusted. If we talked about spending time or sharing with these heathens we were questioned about it to the point where it was just easier to not having anything to do with them or at least not to talk about it. I had no friends left and no activities outside of work and ministry functions. I couldn’t talk to my family about it because I had pretty much alienated them after the wedding. I still spoke to them, but not often and always on a very shallow level. They were afraid of saying something that would set me off and cause me to cut communication with them completely. They had seen how harsh we were with our “unbelieving” families. I had alienated everyone at work with my arrogant “I know more than you” attitude. Gee, I can still remember the day I talked to everyone in my office about their idolatrous crosses they all wore around their necks. I asked them if they would all have electric chairs or machine guns around their necks if that was what Jesus Christ had been killed with. How absolutely embarrassing it is to think about that now. All this was before the lawsuit. Once the lawsuit came out I was in shock. I was slapped awake to reality, I think. We had our meetings as a branch or limb (I can’t remember) and they were all “rah rah” feel good meetings. They said they would answer any questions anyone had and address any concerns, but they never gave anyone copies of the lawsuit or any real information. It was all very short on details. A few puppets stood up right away defending the ministry. “The Way is God’s chosen vehicle and if men screw it up God can always bring it back around” was the predominant theme and after those few spoke if anyone was to say anything negative I could tell they would be labeled as a troublemaker and shunned. A couple of people did say things and question what was going to happen to people who had been treated wrongly and dropped from the corps by Craig. I kept my mouth shut. Actually, I think they recorded those meetings. Maybe it was so they could take notes on who said what and report on who might become a problem. I wonder because the people who didn’t join the cheerleading party did eventually leave The Way. A few people in our area dropped out of sight. No one said anything to us about them. If we asked about them we were told that they were dogs returning to their vomit or that they had held onto some foolish resentments and were unjustly blaming the ministry for their problems. Also, no one said anything to us about any of the top Way Corps who dropped out except for the Lellys. They only told the fellowship coordinators about them. They told us that they had left because of love of money and that they didn’t want any contact with anyone from The Way. B Lelly had unbelieving rich parents and supposedly reconciled with them so that she would get some of their inheritance. At least, that’s what they told us. It was a very dark time with no information coming to us and everyone afraid to ask questions or say anything. Then they announced the second lawsuit. Again, I was shocked. Obviously there was a lot going on that they weren’t sharing with us. This lawsuit didn’t come out of the blue so they had to have known about it when they told us about the first one. So then I started questioning everything regarding my involvement with The Way and everything we had been taught. There definitely had to be an ethics problem from the top down. We were told that everything taught had been researched and was most assuredly accurate. We were also told that it’s possible to teach and research accurately even though you’re really messed up in one area of your life. I asked about a double-minded man being unstable in all his ways and was told that I was being difficult and thinking too much about the situation. There was no way, they said, to deny the greatness of the Word and the new light he taught us. Craig HAD to be walking with God. I was reminded over and over again that you are what you think and that I was thinking too much about the bad part of this. I needed to focus on more positive things. Someone in fellowship asked about Craig and Donna’s marriage and was told by our Way Corps leaders that they didn’t know but would ask. They came back and said that it was none of our business. They said that not everyone wanted to know all the details about what was going on and any additional questions should be asked privately. I disagreed and again was reproved for pushing an issue that was clearly not important. They said they don’t share anyone’s personal lives with the general ministry public and that they are going to respect the privacy of Craig and Donna just like they would anyone else. I asked about the meetings we attended where people who had been mark and avoided were discussed with the whole branch. Those people had their lives laid out for everyone to know every detail of how “off the Word” they were and all the ungodly things in their lives. They asked for specific details of when this had happened (like they couldn’t remember. It was weird.). My husband shut me up at that time by agreeing with the Way Corps and saying that we were on a “need to know basis” and at this time that must be something we didn’t need to know.

Nameless, I just posted part of my story in the My Story thread. It may give you an idea of how the group operates.

Hi, I've been lurking around so I guess I should introduce myself. Well, I can’t really introduce my SELF because I’m not ready for the WAYGB to know who I am. I'll add to this as I get time. I got involved with the ministry in the early 90’s and was really on-again, off-again, on-again, etc. with them. Then I had a major tragedy happen within my family and I didn’t know how to handle the situation. I needed someone I could trust to turn to who was most likely to make proper ethical decisions based on honesty and integrity. I called my then twig coordinator. At the time I was emotionally bankrupt and he really helped me practically and emotionally. Then I felt sort of obligated to start coming to fellowship again. Again, after a few months, I became fickle with my attendance and involvement. Then we got a new set of Way Corps people in our area and they started dropping by my house unannounced and even more frequently if I wasn’t at fellowship. At one of the meetings I did attend a guy I had met talked to me about how I say I want to live one way and then I act the opposite. He talked about the consequences of not lining up my actions with my words. It really hit home for me and I was concerned about my standing with God and my ability to get the blessings in life that I wanted. I decided that it was time to buckle down and get real. I started doing everything they told me to do even if I didn’t want to or didn’t agree with it. I felt like they must know better than I because I had not done such a good job on my own. This guy was a perfect follower of The Way and we ended up getting married. We always had such a great time together and could talk about anything. When we started planning the wedding, as any girl wants to do, I was involving my (non-ministry) mother very heavily in the planning. Everything we had talked about got pushed to the side as the Way Corps minister and other people in my area started dictating how we should do things. As a good little follower I had chosen another girl in my area to be my maid of honor instead of my best friend from all the way back in grade school because she wasn’t with The Way. I didn’t even ask her to be a bride’s maid. (That breaks my heart to this day). They said over and over again that when you got people who weren’t with The Way involved in things you could guarantee they would screw something up. They said important events like our wedding would bring out the worst in all the unbelieving non-Way people involved. The whole wedding turned into one big ministry event and none of our family members were involved in the planning in any way. My mom has since admitted to me that they felt pretty left out and shunned, and now I can really see how she and my family could feel that way. She told me about some things she did and brought to my dressing room to help me enjoy my day, but was told she couldn’t do what she planned because it was “believing negatively” for our big day. Anyway, we got married and right away I felt the pressure to get involved more in the ministry and attend all the events. We were handed quite a bit of responsibility and didn’t really have much time to ourselves. Didn’t newly married couples have a year with little to no responsibilities so they could enjoy being married and learning each other? Not with The Way, apparently. Several times we tried to have them take some of the responsibility from us, but there always seemed to be some kind of crisis come up at that time and we were “really needed.” We eventually quit asking them to lessen the load on us even though we desperately wanted less to do. I was all for putting our foot down and insisting, but my husband was afraid of being seen as less of a believer in the eyes of the leadership and I didn’t want to appear to be usurping his authority or acting out from under the cover of my head. We went through a few harsh reproval sessions and he always cowered to the leadership and told them we were sorry and those things would never happen again. Then he would follow up with a thank you note for their loving us enough to tell us the truth and set us straight. I hated that, especially since we weren’t wrong. One time we got upset with some Way Corps and went up the Way Tree on it. We asked for a meeting about the situation and were floored to find out that we were being told all the things WE did wrong and that we should be apologizing to them and the Way Corps couple for wasting everyone’s time. I tried to fight back, but my husband just sat there staring at the floor unable to speak and on the verge of tears. Then they started attacking me even harder and he still just sat there and let them. I eventually apologized just so we could get out of the meeting. I was so disappointed in my husband and could see that he was so afraid of them that it would take a lot of work or a miracle for him to feel strong enough to do anything about the blatant injustice we faced on a regular basis. Even now I think he has convinced himself that they are correct and we must have been missing it somewhere. A few times I did or said things to trusted friends in the ministry only to get called into reproof sessions for the things I had shared in confidence. For example, I had lunch with a girl in the branch and we BOTH talked about how stupid the no debt policy was and how wrong the ministry was in how they taught some things and treated people, but that we knew they would never apologize to anyone, and especially not publicly. Later she turned me in for going on the internet and that I was angry with The Way and waffling in my loyalty to the leadership and the ministry. I was reproved for going on the web and for not talking to leadership about how I felt so they could help me. Sure. Help me see things their way again. No thanks. *edited to clear up some details*