Belle

Did he have contact information on his website? OM, maybe you could call JP and ask him yourself.

Unfortunately, those left "in" will never hear about these lawsuits unless they are afraid they will make the media in their particular location. I sincerely hope that the twi(t)s continue losing millions upon millons of dollars to the people brave enough to fight these pharisees.

Krys, WWJLA is looking for a roomie if you need a place to stay. I had to back out due to some unexpected circumstances and we had planned to share a room.

Kerry seemed to speak more clearly and without much thinking whereas Bush seemed to take longer to think up his answers and rebuttals. I think I think like Bush because I certainly respond better via e-mail or forums because it gives me time to think, but maybe the generall public doesn't see it that way. I'm a Bush supporter all the way, but Kerry seemed more poised and prepared just because of his quick responses. I still think he's a skunk and willing to change his mind depending on the pressure of the hour. He belongs in a Waffle House and not the White House if you ask me.

WG, the Singing Ladies we ain't! ;)--> :D-->

I like my job and the work is exciting and challenging, but I wish I had more "home" time to do things I would like to do. It has nothing to do with work, but rather living in a big city and having the commute time cutting into "my" time. I hope to move someplace smaller so the commute doesn't take such a chunk out of my personal time....or talking my boss into letting me work from home.

p.s. WhiteDove where did you get that picture of me??? :D-->

My purpose for getting involved in the PDL study groups at this time is to get to know the people in the church better. I see good and I see TWI in this book and I'm not altogether smitten with it, but I do see merit in some aspects and I also see opportunities to debunk some things. I HATE/DETEST/ABHOR having to memorize scripture because someone told me to and I'm not looking forward to the parts on "everyone has to give." and the witnessing aspects of it. But so far we have only met once and that was to work out the details of our individual study group. We were talking about witnessing and I shared with them the "No one cares what you know until they know you care" phrase from TWI and they loved that so it's our "scripture" for the week. They know I come from a cult and that I'm only recently out and the tender loving care I've received is nothing short of phenomenal. My group is all ladies and even on the first night there was a great deal of heart sharing. We're serious about utilizing the admonition to do what works for your group and that the group alone makes the "rules" so to speak. I don't see or feel the legalism in our group and can guaran-dam*-tee you that if it creeps in I will speak up and/or move out. So far, I see it being good for them and I also see how I can contribute and keep the balance in our group because of my experience. A lot of this is things they've never been taught or even thought about. It's also a great time of bonding in the church.

I left within the past 5 years. TWI took my husband away from me in the process. Something I desparately did not want to happen. Since leaving I have noticed a lot more and I have a lot more peace in my life and I'm not looking over my shoulder constantly. My neighbors, friends and co-workers have noticed it enough to make comments on it. I have more to write, but I have to go. I'll get back to you on this one. I think it's imporant for those who are lurking to see.

It's not only Rosa-lie, John. I was talking to my TC and BC one time about the mandate that people sell their homes and my TC had the gall to ask me when that ever happened. He insisted that TWI never, but never, forced people to sell their homes. I gave him 3 specific examples right away, 2 of which included him and his wife being the ones putting people on probation for not selling their homes. Of course, then the conversation changed to why I was sticking my nose in other people's business. Take the focuse off the problem and then it goes away and you don't have to admit to it. That's the TWI motto.

My church starts this week. I'm pretty excited about it as I've already read the book and I'm fairly new to the church. They're very excited and have been wearing their "Got Purpose?" t-shirts once a month to the contemporary service for a while. My t-shirt should be in this week. The church wants people to participate so bad that the books and study aids are free. When did TWI ever do THAT??? AHAT the kick off sounds like a blast. Wayfer Not! I love the idea of getting together with other churches. We are doing ours simultaneously with other churches in the area, but not combining groups. That is really cool.

I pretty much agree with everyone's points here and I'll add that I think VP was a very good ACTOR - not a very good teacher. Just because people learn to recite memorized lessons does not mean that they've been taught. Just because people have retained the teachings doesn't mean he was a good teacher, that could be attributed to many other variables, such as what Goey mentioned regarding the status of expert that was thrust in our face enough that we eventually believed it.

Ya know what's odd about this is that I remember being taught that now that during PFAL now that CW brings it up, but in TWI2, we were taught that if we were spiritually mature enough we could SIT all the time, even while we were talking, listening, making decisions, sitting in meetings at work, witnessing, etc. We should, according to them, endeavor to be speaking in tongues all day and if we did it right, we would be able to carry out our normal activities at the same time because SIT functions in a separate part of the brain.

I was talking about this with a friend just the other day. CW, I agree with you and just to add to what you posted: We talk about kids seeing God as an old man with the long, white beard and say they have matured to recognize God as spirit, but we never grow past that. Isn't it "God in Christ in You"? Then holy spirit and Holy Spirit are one in the same. We have God in us and that's the source of our inner voice (barring any emotional or psychological imbalances). Think of God as the ocean and we're droplets of water that make up that ocean. That's why Jesus Christ said, "My Father and I are one" and "I am in Him and He is in me". When you look at the Bible with this perspective things make more sense than they did to me when I was trying to make VP's interpretation fit into that glove.

Regardless of how good the program is (which is debatable), they will eventually have 1 WC person for each fellowship. If the need isn't there for additional leaderships, why continue the obviously failing program?

FLIRTINIS I'm single what do you expect? 2 Parts Champagne 2 Parts Vodka 1 Part Pineapple Juice Although I have found this one on the web and haven't tried it yet, but it does sound good! pieces of fresh Pineapple 1/2 oz Cointreau 1/2 oz Vodka 1 oz Pineapple Juice 3 oz Champagne or sparkling Maraschino cherries wine Directions Pour the Cointraeu, vodka, and pineapple juice into a martini shaker and shake. Strain into a chilled martini glass and top with champagne. Garnish with a pineapple pieces and cherries on a cocktail pick, and serve.

I found this doing some research on Transcendental Meditation on the web. This guy had a bad experience much like ours with a TM group. If you substitue VPW for MMY you get a very good description of the beginning of TWI recovery for some people, including myself. Realizing that the whole foundation of the organization and the teachings were corrupt was the key to the eyes of my understaning being enlightened. How 'bout you? Source of the quote I like the last part of his quote so much I have edited it to fit with TWI.

If they only had 5 WC students in the last class we can only imagine that the next class is about the same size or smaller. They don't allow people to go there for vacations anymore, not even for a fee. So it sounds like a beautiful money pit and waste of ABS they worked so hard to steal from people. Why continue with the WC program when there aren't enough indians for these chiefs to rule anyway? How many people and how much money is needed to run Gunnison?

Just how long can they live on the interest given that they have practically no staff at Gunnison and no interest in the remaining grads to join the elite group? Membership continues to dwindle as teens get old enough to make their own decisions and so do the coffers, I'm sure. If they have to start dipping into the secret bounty, how long will it sustain them? If I was counting on TWI to supply my retirement, would you recommend I start scrambling? I mean, IF THEY WERE TO KEEP THEIR WORD that they would take care of me....would I need to worry that they would not be able to?

Oh yeah! Remember lcm teaching about the lesbian thing with Eve and then pausing and saying, "Do you see it? (laugh) "Well, I do!" Like that should be enough for us to believe it. The gall of that man! Sad thing is, that is all that it took for most of us to believe it.

Excellent topic, CW! The "honor" of teaching was only bestowed upon those deemed "worthy". Nevermind the teaching in the Bible about "the least of these....". Those teachers were also usually the WC leadership and, although they taught that the greatest leader is the greatest servant, I never saw a WC at the back of the food line or anything else for that matter. Every TWI function I went to made sure that the "people" (aka peons) waited to be called upon to serve themselves after watching all the WC/LC/BC/RC go through the line or have their food served to them. (sorry, is this a derail? Should I start a new topic?)

I thought this deserved its own thread. Houseisarockin posted:

Sartori, the key word in my post is most. ;)--> I think the vast majority of people here have learned from their experiences and are a lot sharper and less na? that they were pre-TWI. Some people I don’t hold out much hope for. CW, interesting comments. Not quite what I was expecting to hear from you. :)--> Very astute observations that I did not even think about. LOL! You have quite a way with words. I can see how the movie might trigger those teachings, but it didn’t for me. (I have LOTS of trigger words, situations and such.) I think it may be because I have been reading and studying this type of thing since getting out of TWI. Candace Pert is the woman with the dark hair in the movie. She wrote “The Molecules of Emotion” which is a fascinating book about how the mind, body and emotions interact with each other. Candace Pert discovered the opium receptor in the cells of the human body and has received world-wide acclaim for her truly scientific work . What she started seeing as she was working on the cells in the body, neuropeptides and how the body takes care of itself at the cellular level is what has lead her to realizing the importance of our emotional well-being to our physical well-being. She has helped document or inspire other scientific experiments that have documented the effectiveness of some alternative therapies that were previously discounted as hocus pocus by the mainstream. It would be too much for me to type out now, and I probably wouldn’t do a very good job anyway. Anyway, having this limited background knowledge and the perspective that maybe, just maybe there’s more to metaphysics that I thought. Being fresh out of TWI, I’m still working hard on un-learning and redirecting my life. Therapy has been a great resource for me and my therapist couldn’t be better match for my needs. What I have realized since all this started is that I had truly become a different person while I was in TWI and married. I compromised on so many things that I didn’t really know who I was and I wasn’t very happy with myself, but didn’t realize it because I was “living the more abundant life.” I kept telling myself that and, on some level, I believed it. So if believing = receiving then I should have really been living the more abundant life, but I wasn’t. I’ve learned through Candace Pert’s book and others as well as therapy and friends that I really have to love myself and I really have to have a better attitude and perspective on things. Only when it’s real do we see the real effects. Example: Before I got involved with TWI and met my future husband I had a great figure, good hair days, a great job and life was good. I mean really good. I hardly got sick and never had headaches (unless it was a hangover). Any bumps in the road could be handled and weren’t too much of a distraction because, well, life is good and we all have to deal with crap sometimes. Exit TWI and a controlling marriage many years later. I’ve gained almost 80 lbs. I hate my hair and have been through the mill on job situations. I seemed to be constantly battling some sort of physical ailment. (I actually started worrying that I was possessed with the spirit of hypochondria!) I developed a negative attitude about people and how stupid they are. I lost patience with everything. The smallest thing can set me off and I developed a sick, degrading mental dialog with myself. (Much like Marlee Matlin in the movie) I realized that I have to change my dialog with myself and I have to learn to love myself, warts and all. Think about family members or best friends that you absolutely adore and love with all your heart. They have faults, right? They do things that are annoying, don’t they? They screw up? You love them anyway, don’t you? Then why can’t we do that with ourselves? Isn’t that one of the major keys to peace? Loving ourselves first and then we’re free-er to love our neighbors. After all that verse does say, “love your neighbor as yourself”. We’re special. And we’re important to God and the universe. We just have to remind ourselves of that. I did get annoyed with some of the aspects of the movie and I totally think that Ramtha chick is wacko, but for the most part, I was seeing things in a way I hadn’t seen or thought of them. I may not subscribe to any of them, or maybe I will. Regardless, I appreciated the stimulation of the grey matter and, especially, getting to hear Candace Pert. I totally didn’t think about the medicine scene like that, CW. But, I was focused on other aspects of what was going on around the scene. I do hope people don’t go throwing away their medicines because of the movie.

Interesting information, Satori. I saw the movie recently and I didn't get any type of marketing message from the movie. I've even looked around on the website and didn't see anything about that school until I looked up Ramtha. Rotten Tomatoes has about 1/2 good and 1/2 bad reviews. All pretty extreme in their like or dislike of it. Me? Personally, I had already been learning some of the things covered in the movie and it was enjoyable and informative to me. I particularly admire Candace Pert and have already read her books, so I was thrilled to see her in the movie. The guy who developed the Unified Field Theory was in the movie and the others I had never heard of. I was interested in what they had to say, but I can't say I considered them experts, but rather, people who have a great deal of experience with the theories presented. I suppose it's one of those movies that people either really like or really hate and, based on what you say, could lead some people into giving up money and power to this JZ and her school. Thankfully, most of us here are keen enough to avoid those kinds of groups anymore.

What a beautiful town, Shaz! I love all the architecture and historical details on the walking tour. I'm sure Stanley had a great time!