Belle

OM, that's just one point we'll have to agree to disagree on. ;)--> I do think it's telling that part of vee pee pee's agenda was to push propaganda that had absolutely nothing to do with the Bible and helping people understand it or live better lives. I think it's telling that Biblical research isn't the only thing he plagarized and claimed to be from his own brain. Which brings us back to his motives and intentions with starting TWI. I never believed the myth of the six million. I had learned too much from family, WWII vets, Jews and guest speakers at my local college growing up to ever believe the holocaust wasn't true. And even if they exaggerated the numbers by 10% it's still too much abuse, damage, hatred and terror. That's one subject I stayed away from. I could never trivialize the horrible conditions and treatment those people received and I could certainly never make jokes or dismiss the lives lost because of it.

Johnny, I got involved in the early 90's. I would say the worst times in my area started with those who graduated in 93 and after. The wc in my area before then had been here forever, at least 5-8 years and they were a close knit family, but very kind to everyone, with the one exception I already mentioned. I think, too, it was harder for the truly altruistic in resident wc to stay tender hearted as the years went on because the classes were so much smaller. You couldn't just blend into the background or avoid detection. Everyone was heavily scrutinized and held accountable to unrealistic standards. There just weren't enough people in the corps training for anyone to be able to "hide." I know my ex was a stellar wc trainee until his last year, that's when he got some leadership who didn't like him for some reason. They started confiscating his phone records, acccusing him of awful b.s., berating him, destroying his self-esteem and even accusing him of being gay. He is NOT gay! You men know what that does to a straight man 's ego. He was so beaten down he couldn't fight back. He ended up getting kicked out and instead of getting mad and leaving, he went back home to try to figure out why he was such a failure and .... up. Then he started bending over backwards trying to please everyone in leadership positions. He went to such lengths to please them that he quit talking to his parents, siblings and other relatives. I don't see how anyone with honest intentions can make it through the training these days without becoming corrupt since the classes are even smaller that the first corps classes were.

I pointed out several things that were being taught incorrectly. Backed it all up with information and research from "outside" sources. My HFC agreed with my conclusions and was shocked to see that we had all mis-understood it for so long. My research was passed up the ladder because it was so good, interesting and correct. I never heard anything about it. So, I persued getting clarification on it. Was I right? Are they going to change what they've been teaching? I kept getting put off until we got new wc in our area. They wanted to meet with me and proceeded to tell me how I had mis-understood the explanation and that it wasn't what I thought vee pee and martinfail had been saying, and that maybe they were using extreme examples, but they were not wrong. --> It was clear that they had thought incorrectly until I brought it up, and then they spent a great deal of time explaining how I had just mis-understood the example. Nevermind the fact that the whole effen ministry had "misunderstood" the example. They were not going to change their teaching. There was no problem as far as they were concerned. My husband's response, "What did vee pee say about it?" Well, same thing martinfail said about it. "Nuff said." Oh, let's take vee pee's word over God's word?? Take vee pee's word of real Biblical scholars' word --> Even a man we completely respected in the ministry told us that he has several research items that he had submitted numerous times showing that they were teaching wrong doctrine. Every time they ignored him. So he gave up, but he knows they are teaching wrong doctrine. --> WHY DID WE PUT UP WITH THAT?? WHY DO PEOPLE CONTINUE TO PUT UP WITH THAT??? -->

Coolchef, someone who was very involved with Way Productions did a trip down memory lane on here about a lot of the music and bands. I wasn't around at the time so I can't remember who it was and what all was in it, but someone else may. I'll see if i can find it in the archives. It sounds like something you would enjoy reading.

LOL! :D--> :D--> :D-->

Sky, You should copyright that! You may see it again if you don't. :D-->

Is it just me, or did you listen to that rhetoric and think you understood what they were saying? Now when you read that crappy double-speak do you have to read it several times before you realize what they are trying to say and that they aren't really saying anything at all?

Gawd forbid they have any more lawsuits! That would deplete the coffers and destroy any future of living high on the hog for them. No, they will never admit they were wrong or did anything bad. And those who are full time staffers, especially those on the field who have done nothing but follow their orders for most of their lives, will continue to support and cover for them.

HCW, that does sound like a grand ole time you had back in the day. It wasn't anything like that when I got involved. In fact, I had heard that you could vacation at Gunnison, but when I looked into it, I found out it wasn't "available" anymore. :(--> There weren't any perks of any kind for us...unless you count the priviledge of helping wc pack and move, serving on the class crew, coordinating outreach activities and bringing goodies to fellowship.

Indeed it was! Who were they? Why did they go to five and then why back to 3?

I couldn't resist, Shellon! :D--> :D--> :D--> :D--> Suz, glad you're home and all comfy now. You deserve a trip down south after all that! :)-->

I have an attached 2 car garage in the front of my house and very short driveway. We always parked our cars in it because my ex thought it was disgusting that people had so much stuff they couldn't fit their cars in their garage. He said they weren't "travelling light". Nevermind the fact that our RC had so much stuff in his house, attic and garage that they couldn't park their cars in there! Setting the example, doncha know! Every time we had to (excuse me, were BLESSED TO) help them move, they had someone putting plywood down in the attic so they could store their stuff that wouldn't fit in the garage. Now I park my car in the MIDDLE of the garage (and sometimes on a diagonal) and I love it! :D-->

Abi and Oak, this happened when I was on a class crew once. Some of the students, with their NEW STUDENTS in tow, were made to stand OUTSIDE in the blistering heat until the wc bc decided they could come in. He was peeved that they showed up too early. And they wonder why people don't stick around... -->

Is there a current checklist like this? Does this read along the lines of the corps responsibilities? I'm surprised I never noticed how self-centered and money-centered everything they do/did is/was. They really have succeeded in taking God out of TWI.

The "de-Martindalization" is working by "don't talk about it". If you quit talking about it and accuse those who do of holding on to the past and not moving on, then they will forget. "It's okay to talk about his book because he was a wonderful, intelligent MOG who just happened to have a tiny character flaw.... --> but we forgive and forget." This is their new mantra. They keep references to him quiet and subtle because they know that people are peeved and don't take his sins as lightly as the BOD and little wannabees do, but they also know if they openly worship him they will run those people off and that would impact the income stream.

HCW, I think you'll find your observations and opinion are of the majority on here. The only ones living a nice lifestyle are those in the upper eschelon who have all the secrets in those sepulchres they guard. The rest are living at near poverty levels to support their lifestyles. coolchef, yes they still have Gunnison and they graduated a whopping 5 new corps last year from there.

I might have some of the front, I'll look and post them tomorrow if I do. I hope you find what you're looking for! :)-->

It started okay (not great, but okay) regarding the kindness of the corps and got worse through my involvement. When I first got involved there were corps all over my area and most were pretty nice. There was one couple I never felt comfortable around, they were elitist, distant and very regimented. I hardly ever saw them smile and they always seemed so serious. They had a beautiful home and it was custom built to be able to run classes. (a little overboard, ya think?) When the full time status came down they had to sell their beautiful home, quit their high paying jobs and move to a very tiny apartment in another state. (Not that I missed them or anything, but this was the beginning of the nazi era for them, I think because I heard they became worse once they left.) All the other corps had to sell their homes and move, too. Then we had a couple come in that was young and pretty nice. They were having money problems from day 1 because of the restrictions put on the corps, but they were nice. I think they are still nice from what I hear. After they got relocated a corps family moved in and I didn't get to meet them right away, but they came in, shook things up and started setting rules and getting all kinds of information about people and establishing "favorites" right off the bat. I worked hard to be a "favorite" because that was my nature. Then we got a new lc and everything started getting more legalistic, regimented and controlling. This was the first time I ever heard of someone getting M&A and it was at a branch meeting where the corps took turns standing up in front of all of us and telling us all the dirty laundry on this person. Things kids didn't need to hear and all while the person's family was sitting right there, too. I was shocked and embarrassed. I didn't know what to do or think. It only got worse from there. I stayed because, I think, nothing happened to me and I wasn't directly affected by things until later on. Once we got new corps grads from the lcm regime in our area things really went wild and I was always listening to them yell at me, my husband or various groups that I was in for any stupid reason. It got old real quick, but I stayed still because I didn't want to sacrifice my family for some group. Unfortunately my husband saw things differently. Some of the things we got yelled at about: - not bringing any new people to fellowship (the whole fellowship got "reproved" on this) - not buying the scripture reading tapes they put out - not buying the new "prevailing word" edition of the collaterals - not teaching people who can't sing to sing quietly so as to not make the whole fellowship sound bad - for offering a put put golf pass to the corps when they aren't supposed to receive gifts - for not kicking a guy out of a branch meeting for out-dressing the corps leading the meeting - for making noise during a class - for not standing when a corps person came into the room - nevermind the fact that he came in through the back door of the room so all of us had our back to him and couldn't see him come in - for not convincing someone in our fellowship to sell their home Stupid shlt! I'm ashamed that I put up with it and that I felt bad for not doing what they wanted us to do.

That's not to say the term "present truth" wasn't forced down your throats or applied to anything that suited their manipulative purposes.

I thought vee pee left his church because he got caught "ministering" to a woman in the church, much the way he abused wome in TWI. Regardless, Galen, if he left for the reasons you say he left, then didn't he do the same thing he condemned people for leaving TWI for?

Arizona? Kewl! Will he get to wear a bolo?

Sounds like a cult teaching - just a little bit of truth and value cloaked in b.s. A good husband DOES provide for his family, DOES spend time with his wife and kids, DOES keep things exciting in the bedroom :D-->, DOES have hobbies and friends he keeps in touch with, DOES treat his wife with respect and openly shows his love to his family. I don't see what the big deal is? Don't men already know these things? --> I thought they did. That doesn't mean they do them, but they DO know what a good husband does. Don't they?? -->

I had a friend who bought a house in somwhere up north where the driveway went from the front of the house all the way around to the garage in the back of the house. He didn't think much of it and rather enjoyed planting nice bushes and flowers along the long driveway. After the first big snow his new neighbor's words rang through his ears over and over again, "Your garage is in the back of your house." In the South it doesn't snow, it ices and 1/2 inch of that is enough to shut down the whole town for a few days. I did learn in my one experience with REAL snow that you can't slide on it like you can on ice. You'll land on your backside in the snow-making angel position. :D-->

Good tip, OM. I love eBay, but only use it when I can't find something local. I hate paying shipping charges. I also make sure that I'm not paying more in price & shipping than I can get somewhere else. Some people really jack up those shipping prices. I'm a total wuss though, if they have the "buy it now" option, I'll do that rather than join a bidding war. :)-->

One of my office mates has previously served on the boards of Atlanta's Southeast Leatherfest, the Atlanta Bondage Club, the International Master and slave Contest and Atlanta SM Solidarity's "Spring In The South." He is a Leather University alumni and is a very well renowned instructor.