Belle

I'm just getting back into the dating scene and haven't had all that many first dates, but I'm trying desperately to remember all the faux pas of dating past. Anyone care to share their dating tips? :D--> I met a dear friend for dinner Saturday night and ordered a chicken dish that I THOUGHT I knew what it was. It ended up being half of a chicken, bones and all, entirely covering the whole plate on top of the veggies and rice. Thank goodness I was with a friend and not on a first date with nervous jitters because Mrs. Owens would NOT have been proud of my table manners and the volume of food was obscene. :D--> It was a semi picnic. I have added this to my list of foods NOT to order on a first date. Unfortunately, the other foods on my list have also gotten there because of first hand experience. Here are some: crab legs - I'm extremely incompetent when it comes to cracking open the shells and end up taking hours to eat just one plate. spaghetti - not cool to be sucking noodles through your lips while staring into someone's eyes. pizza - especially if it has extra sauce (don't ask :o--> ) hot wings - I have an orange ring around my mouth unless the beer is flowing freely. shish kabobs - sounds innocent enough, doesn't it. They are dangerous around me. ;)--> raw oysters - nuff said The safest bet for me is sirloin tips because even the meat is already cut up for you. :P-->

Thank you tomtuttle. :)--> I suppose if it's God's will, then He would have to tell me and he hasn't yet so far as I know. As far as my not agreeing? Well, I figure I did that for about 10 years since I was in TWI and He was telling me to get out. ;)--> I'm trying to make up for it now. HOWEVER, I have always said I wish God's timing and man's timing would line up with MY timing. :D-->

You got it spot on, skyrider. Every time we thought we had done something to get "in" and to gain approval there was another hoop right around the corner. We sould go through that hoop only to find out that, "that's good, but if you REALLY want to be spiritual you need to...." *shakes head* And we actually believed them when they said the foundational class would teach us all we needed to know and that anyone could read and understand the Bible if they would just apply those keys.....

Follow the money! Maybe they also feel like people aren't giving enough of their hard earned money to them, so this is another way to make sure they get as much as they can because sponsorship does NOT count at abundant sharing. I also wonder if they are starting to drop corps for piddly reasons just to coerce them to go back through the program if they really want to be corps. Sort of like what they did with the *lthouse family.

See me - I also think that Shellon's comments are directed at people who took no action, not you. It's so hard to read tone of voice. I'm sure Shellon will qualify her statement. Krys, you're so right! I think it's very scary for people like LLP because they always believe whatever they hear from TWI leadership and hq. The thought that they may actually lie and cover up horrendous actions just does not occur to them and it's something they really don't want to believe because it would mean they were taken advantage of.Some just close their ears and eyes because it's easier to continue on status quo existing and believing what they're told to believe rather than face facts and have to deal with them. It's too painful to admit that something that you loved and trusted in wasn't what you thought it was at all.

Your first thought is only as good as the current rules of TWI. If it doesn't "seem right" to some TWIt in power, then you're listening to the wrong God.

The emphasis on "you don't need expensive counselors" and "you don't need family counselling" if you take their class is extremely disturbing. Isn't that making medical claims that are unfounded and patently false? How many people in TWI have/had chemical imbalances and other problems that they never sought help for because it was anathema in TWI to get help? Counselling is NOT expensive if you have health insurance, which most people not employed by TWI do have. It's also extremely helpful in addition to drug therapy. I was having mini-panic attacks as much as 6 years ago in TWI and was told repeatedly that it was stress. All they did to help me was tell me to renew my mind and "believe God" bigger. My situation continued to decline but I couldn't tell anyone how I felt because it was a weakness and my fault. I also already knew what they would say, they'd been saying the same unhelpful things for years. By the time I got to the point where I would start crying at the slightest little thing I thought I was truly insane and possibly possessed. Going to a psychiatrist and receiving a diagnosis of severe long term depressing, getting on anti-depressants and starting talk therapy with those unnecessary counselors has saved my life. I got out of TWI and divorced shortly after starting anti-depressants and started talk therapy right around that time, too. I can honestly say I feel much more normal and my family recognizes the huge change in my demeanor and outlook. I haven't felt this good in about 10 years and it's only getting better every day. If TWI truly wanted to help people they wouldn't teach them that all they need are a few Bible verses and micro-mangaged lives to be healthy and have perfect harmony in the family. They would be more aware of changes in a person's attitude and state of mind to recognize when there's a need for help. They wouldn't stigmitize people who need psychiatric or psychological help and they would truly try to help people. I wonder how many people are still "in" who would be so much healthier and better off if they would seek professional help.

I agree! :D--> Also, remember that there are still people who are IN reading these threads. Some have never heard this stuff before. Some still have questions. Some will be able to put the pieces together easier and better having the information, examples of our experiences and even banter to help them get OUT and enjoy a much better life like we do. Some wc may need to know, also, that we've been where they are now and that it's never too late to apologize and that you don't have to go underground if you don't want to.

Very Nice, Megan. :)--> I feel like I was there.

Well, how can you top that one? :D--> My dog follows me to the bathroom, but she just sits there impatiently waiting for me.

Welcome, Jay! I'm sure Raf will be around with the coffee soon. Could I buy you a danish? :)-->

I dunno, Mr. H. I don't discount the possibility as I do believe in angels and the spirit realm. This thread reminds me of the scene in "What the Bleep" about some natives who couldn't figure out why there ripples and waves in the water and didn't see the British ships coming to shore because they had never seen anything like that before. (I'm sure I'm not explaining this right, sorry) Just because we haven't seen something doesn't mean it's not there.

Those are some neat stories, y'all. Thank you for sharing them. I'm just amazed that people can hear stories like that, real live eye witness accounts and the pictures and the evidence and still claim that "it wasn't as bad as people make it sound".

:(--> (((((excathedra))))) I'm so sorry for you and your brothers.

Thank you for such a comprehensive summary of the book. :)--> It makes sense now. Did you enjoy the book and would you recommend it? This pulls the carpet out from under many things TWI condemns and refers people to in the original book, doesn't it? ;)--> They still push and recommend "Babylon Mystery Religion" to people and somehow neglect to mention the "The Babylon Connection?" This is the way I have always felt but couldn't voice in TWI because of their staunch legalism. Thanks so much! Tom, the Christmas tree has been allowed, but you can't call it a Christmas tree and you can't have angels on it and you can't have Santa Claus figures on it and you can't..... you get the idea. You DO still think of a p*nis every time you see it because they have not changed that part of the TWIt law. Snowcones are allowed, though. :)-->

AMEN! WC staunchly defended each other against any attacks and then "reported" up the chain of command the problems the joe believer had. My husband and I had run ins with our HFC over several things. We talked to this person about it many times and we also tried to quit being assistants numerous times but were told over and over again that they needed us to help with "this one thing" and then we could step down. One day something else happened because of the hfc's lack of direction and communication and our whole day was shot taking care of their crap. I was steamed. My husband had been working long days all week and it was the first day he had off and we were actually going to get to spend some time together. I left a scathing voice mail and that night we were called to a meeting with the local wc. The hfc was fixing to go into the wc training so it was this person and the wc couple running our branch on one side of the room and my husband and I on the other side facing them. We were criticized and yelled at and told how wrong we were and how WE weren't being good assistant coordinators and WE weren't helping our hfc and basically total losers. Our hfc was wc material and how dare we criticize any actions or decisions made from that kind of spiritual person. My husband just sat there staring at the floor. He hardly uttered 3 words the whole night.... "I'm so sorry." I know we didn't do anything wrong and we had asked repeatedly to not be assistants and we had requested repeatedly to get consistent, clear directions on how to handle certain things if they wouldn't let us step down. Seemed pretty clear to me who was at fault, but NO...I was the troublemaker. I was rebellious and that's as bad as the sin of witchcraft doncha know? They were in my face for a good 20 minutes and my husband didn't stand up to them one time even though he shared the same frustrations with me. I was tired. Tired of fighting. Tired of getting beaten down. Tired of not getting any support from the one person I should have been able to count on. I apologized. Then THEY decided it would be a good thing if we took a break from being assitant coordinators. --> Joe Believer knew that "resistance is futile" when it comes to complaining about anyone in the corps. In corps training they have you so scared and tired that you don't have the energy or strength to even try to complain about bad leadership. My ex was treated horribly the last year he was in residence, but they were HIS leadership and he saw the support for them from the people above them so he already knew what the outcome would have been should he have said anything about their incompetence.

Wow! Instant feedback! Thank you. OM, are you saying the connection to Babylon is the only thing he repudiates? I haven't read the book, but it seems as though there would be more to rescind given it took a whole book to do it. *shrug*

skyrider, it's really easy to know which key to use when you decide what point you're trying to prove. ;)--> When I would ask them about teaching us to do something that came from the wrong administration, they would throw back the "used before." When I would ask about something being wrong based on the "used before" key, they would say that I wasn't looking at the whole context. You ignore the other keys if they don't support what you're trying to prove. It's not that hard once you get used to it. -->

The authors of those books also wrote retractions along with the author of the book about papal worship, didn't they? I can't remember the name of that other book.

I talked to them about this and they said that they would readily agree to any mistakes they've made if someone can show them where they have made any. The error, you see, is in your understanding of what was taught, not in the teaching itself. If they do change something, it isn't really a change, it's just a different way of saying something so that the lesson and meaning are more clear. --> These are true statements told to me during some of my discussions with wc leadership.

It was a serious question. I guess that explains why I never heard the names Johnny Townsend and Ricardo Caballero. I got involved in the 90's and by that time history had already been re-written to take them out of the storybooks.

Z, I think Abi is talking about the gesture more than the price. It appears as though this guy has no other way to get in touch with her. I think it's wonderful that he didn't just give up because she changed her number and made it that much more difficult to talk to him. Someone who spends $17K on an ad has the money to spend on it. I've worked for a newspaper before and they require payment up front from new customers and private citizens - especially that kind of money.

Shellon, So, you're twice as old as your youngest this year. :)--> I don't want to talk about age. I'm old enough to be called "ma'am" and I hate it!

Pirate, I'd go too, just for the whitewater rafting! I love the New River and the Eau Gallie in WV and the Ocoee and the Chatooga in TN/SC. I have a problem with people giving too much credit to movies for solving people's problems, but I wouldn't mind being rescued by someone wild at heart. ;)-->

ChattyKathy, maybe this will help your son feel better: Every year at Christmas my mom buys me a box of Wal-Mart stuff - toothbrush, shampoo, aspirin, Pepto, candles.... all kinds of little things. One year she gave me a box of "anti-diarrhea" medicine. My roommate gave me so much grief about that! He almost broke a rib laughing so hard. About a week later he comes crawling into my bedroom, "Belle, where's that anti-diarrhea medicine your mom bought you? Can I have some?" :D--> :D--> :D--> :D--> NEVER, but NEVER make fun of Mama!