Belle

Much better today, Paw! The past week or so it's been slower than molasses and I thought it was my puter, but I'm on a T-1 and the other sites I visit were working just fine. Today it's as fast as any other site. :)-->

Welcome, M. D. Vaden of Oregon! Glad to have you here and I think it's a rather bold thing you're doing by coming here openly knowing that TWI does NOT approve of it. ;)--> Congratulations on maintaining your ability to make your own decisions and think for yourself. I would like to warn you, though, that TWI heavily monitors this site and you very well could be "confronted" on your openness to come here and post. I know that I was in big trouble when they heard that I came on here and later when they thought I was posting on here as someone else, they were pretty vicious. I hope that doesn't happen to you if you are really happy in TWI. I would like to comment on this part of your post: A lot of "regular" churches are now much different from what you left years ago. TWI says there's nothing better out there, but I beg to differ. Maybe there USED to be nothing better out there, but you'd be surprised at how much different and "better" churches have become these days. There's a lot more learning and teaching, a lot more involvement and love and caring, a lot more ways to serve and to get involved so that you can choose how/where you want to give your time based on your long suits, time and desires. I know I was pretty darn impressed with what's out there once I started looking around. Anwyay, I'd love to buy you a danish or muffin. I'm sure Raf will be along with the coffee shortly. Again, Welcome! I look forward to hearing more from you.

Sorry, y'all! Unexpectedly called out of town and away from the web. Go ahead and go with Steve!'s since he posted it. I'll try to get back on when I can be more reliable.

Deconstructing Harry Demi Moore St Elmos Fire

I'm with Hiway29. I got to where I could rattle off something if called on. Sometimes I would think through the first couple of words, but the rest of it just came out once I got started. I could never buy that it was "from God" because it was always laced with the "phrase of the week" or whatever agenda TWI was pushing at the time. I also remember vee pee talking about being okay to say whatever God told you to say and gave the "I hollared and hollared" example, but while I was in, if someone were to talk like that they would get scolded and told that God didn't talk like that.

Smurfette, backatcha! I don't have kids, but I remember one couple getting completely reamed for their 2 year old kid squirming at a fellowship meeting that had lasted over an hour and a half late into a week-night. Heck, I was trying not to squirm and it was way past MY bedtime. Yes, the kids were expected to be little adults and it was pitiful. I would feel sorry when I had to be around the kids because they wanted so badly to please and to be loved and praised, but they weren't allowed to be kids and many were very confused about what was expected of them because at school they would see kids doing and saying thing they weren't allowed to and those kids were having so much more fun. There are quite a few outspoken parents on here, so bringing this to the top will hopefully get some more responses to your thread. ;)-->

Out, I agree with dmiller. Thanks for saying what we should have said a long time ago. I actually feel really priviledged to be on here with so many corps grads. I'm seeing them as "real" people for the first time on here. Before, they were task masters or "really nice people" and I wasn't able to understand them wanting to be corps because they were so nice. Regardless, they were unapproachable and impeachable. The pressure, I think, to be perfect kept us lowly "peons" from really having access to their lives and seeing them as real people with flaws and all. I think you're right here, too. I seriously doubt if there are any people left in the corps who are truly ministers and wanting honestly to help God's people. Those people were run off.

Well, the Forts can't exactly count on any kind of inheritance from Cind*'s parents, can they? I mean, the All*n's are surely living on a "need basis", don't own their own home and probably only JUST started the "retirement" plan that TWI so generously (gag) began offering to people. They'll be doing well to manage to stay in that house and pay their healthcare costs with what little social security they have coming to them. Radar, I think Sky is saying that the people at hq are more "protected" in a sense. They can stay there until they become a financial burden on TWI. They have an "easier" schedule compared to the "field" folks and are sheltered from "real life" in a way. They don't have to worry about lunch, home repairs, paying rent, attending fellowship on a regular basis, going out witnessing, major grocery shopping, bill paying, rush hour traffic..... "real world" stress and time constraints. The higher up you are on the hq corporate ladder, the more insulated you are from these things. Regardless of the "heart" behind the staff positions, in the whole scheme of TWI, it IS a preferred position in some ways. The "field" personnel are working their butts off (the non-paid "field personnel", not the free-loaders), but they aren't getting paid for it and given the eye-opening experiences of the past few years, they aren't really working all that hard anymore and can't possibly be motivated to add more people to their responsibilities because that's a lot more time and resources required of them when they're already worked to death, under-appreciated and not even getting paid for all that they do. "Field Freeloaders" like the Moneyhands, aren't secure in their positions. They HAVE to perform because their secure paycheck and lavish lifestyle is dependent on it. Even so, they still don't have it as easy, schedule wise as the hq staffers, but they do have more freedoms than the staffers. BUT, again, if they become too much of a burden, less loyal or less performing, they could find themselves stuck out on the street in a "branch" position and struggling to stay off welfare.

Amazing! I go away for a few days and find that this thread has really taken off with so much wonderful, sage advice! Thank y'all so much! Bob, I never realized how very much we really do have in common. Thank you so much for the kind words AND for the brain dump! :)--> I look forward to hearing much more from you! Here are some really key things you said that stirred my brain juices: I think I was never able to put my finger on this one and you nailed it! We learned very well in TWI how to use loyalty to TWI and the scriptures to justify everything we did or thought including "spiritual anger". I was considered the one breaking the vows because I chose to no longer associate with TWI. I didn't turn my back on God - just the group that pretended to represent God. I was constantly told that I had been the one to "change" and to break our vows. Like you, my vows said nothing about remaining "faithful" to TWI. --> AND nevermind the fact that my ex had agreed and wanted to have children when we got married, but changed HIS mind when it became apparent that we could not afford to have children and follow TWI's "suggestion" that we not allow "the world to raise our children". That wasn't breaking a vow, but not going to fellowship was. *shrug* I actually did a really good job of hiding all the problems and sickness from my co-workers. They were in shock when I told them that I had gotten divorced. I didn't even realize how really sick I was until I finally did go for some help. In addition to being severely depressed and having other physical ailments, it was just plain hard to love someone you KNOW would choose that manipulating, lying group of people over you, your love and your vows. I could hardly look him in the eye once that realization settled in. Yeppers! We were never encouraged to get "outside" counselling for our marriage and the only "counselling" we got inside TWI was to "read the word together", "submit to my husband better", b.s. like that. Nothing practical, concrete or helpful. They (TWI leaders) didn't want to know the problems and, if we had discussed them openly it would have been the same outcome since they are so biased about TWI. My ex wouldn't get "outside" counselling because that would be seen as weakness. I'm sure it killed him when I said that I was going to find a psychiatrist and therapist to start seeing. He probably never told anyone in TWI about that and he sure as he11 didn't stick around long enough after that to see it start working and helping. Then again, if he had stuck around, I might have come along as far as I have. All I can say here is AMEN, AMEN and AMEN, BRUTHA! :D--> I would share things with my ex that TWI was teaching wrong or doing wrong and he would get peeved beyond belief, THEN they would do or say something to "correct" (but never admit being wrong) what I had already pointed out to him and he would act like it was the greatest thing he'd ever heard and like he had never heard that before. And let's not even get started on my "worldly" hobbies, likes, concerns and interests.... Nevermind the fact that he had his own category in the budget and BOTH of us put money into that category, but I never had my own category and had to fight tooth and nail to spend one dime on myself. He could spend every night doing something HE wanted to do but when I decided that I wanted to start spending time on ME, I was questioned and quizzed like I was doing something wrong.....sorry....not going to go there...... Dartanian: Looks like you've gotten the same treatment Bob and I have had the priviledge of experiencing. I'm so sorry! Part of me is really sorry that you and Bob have kids involved and their sweet, tender hearts to protect as well. I know that makes it even harder because you do have to continue to communicate with your ex spouses and in as polite a manner as possible for the sake of the kids. Part of me is jealous that you have that extra burden because I wish that my ex had at least kept that promise and agreement that we had when we got married. I'm getting really close to being too old to have children and I really resent the fact that I gave up so many years of my life for him and that group of TWIts and that the hardest consequence for those mistakes could very well be that I never get to have the kids I so wanted to have. Most people don't know, but I've been wanting out of TWI since the lawsuits were mentioned and I had been trying hard since then to get my ex to wake up to how miserable our lives are/were because of the lies and errors and manipulation of that group. We're talking at least 5 years. So many times I think that if I hadn't tried to fight for my marriage and keep my vows I could possibly be re-married and starting my family.... Okay, Bob! I see your dump and raise you two! :D--> :D--> :D-->

We never sang at my AC, Steve! In fact, a group of people were sitting around the lobby during one of the breaks and they were all singing together and sounded absolutely wonderful! It was spontaneous and uplifting and a joy for everyone around. Sadly, they were told to stop and harshly reproved in front of the entire class during one of the meals. :(--> It pretty much dampened the spirit of the whole class and reinforced how legalistic TWI had become. How dare we have fun on our own and without some rules and micro-management of some leadership?

JT? JustThinking reproved you? :)--> I met GW a few times and thought he was just really quiet. I enjoyed his teachings and singing, but, then again, I was really new when I first met him. I heard that he and his wife, Paul* had their house custom built for running classes. She seemed to be really strict and die-hard. I hardly ever saw her smile and never felt very comfortable around her. She was pretty distant, but GW seemed more laid back and did smile quite a bit. Obviously they are kool-aid drinkers as they gave up a great house, great careers and good friends to move into a VERY cramped place and go on TWIts payroll. I don't know if they are still on the payroll, but I see Paul* being the ranting and raving one over Ger*ld. Am I thinking of the wrong couple?

Tom, that is one of the best posts I think I've read here. I agree wholeheartedly with your quote above! They seem to have gotten greedy and egotistical enjoying bragging on the wonderful things that were taking place and instead of giving God the glory, they started taking the glory for themselves and, in their greed, set up rules that they thought would increase things to brag about.

They may resort to voodoo dolls. Kids and the younger generations are much more internet savvy and they are much more likely to research anything and everything out on the web. The only people they are going to be able to get are extremely naive and/or computer illiterate people. That demographic is getting smaller by the day.

Oh, Psalmie. :(--> I'm so sorry for you and your family. Those critters crawl right into our hearts and stay there forever. That's one of the hardest things we ever have to experience in our lives, imo, no matter how old one is. :(-->

WHOOO HOOOO!! Flat is BACK IN THE SADDLE AGAIN! :D--> :D--> :D--> Who says you can't be in two places at the same time? :D--> :D--> :D--> Thank you for sharing the pics, y'all! I'm truly addicted to Flat's Adventures.

Very much so, O&A! :)--> And, like Rascal, I, too, am so glad that you made it out! Your family must be so relieved and happy to have you back 100% and in a place where you are and will be loved and taken care of.

I *think* this is it. We used to play a drinking game to Man Hunterand that sounds like one of the lines. The guy hated guns but seemed to have one an awful lot.

When Harry Met Sally Billy Crystal Running Scared

Ghostbusters Dan Ackroyd Neighbors

I didn't realize that pattern, sky, but you're absolutely right! I wish we could put together a "Where are they now?" segment to follow up on these people. :D--> The Mosquitos followed the same pattern, didn't they? We know they're doing well. I wonder how many field staffers are shaking in their boots as they march to hq this month.

Steve! but Cindy! has been previously married, right? How do her initial wedding vows figure into that? How about me? I was married and my ex chose TWI over me. By the end the marriage was a sham. Both of us changed our minds about things we promised to do when we got married.

Dennis Quaid The Big Easy Ellen Barkin

O&A, I, too, am speechless! Thank you for sharing and it IS healing to read your story. I know it's a very happy ending, and I am eagerly looking forward to the next installment. :)-->

This was posted in the Doctrinal section and I know most of y'all , like me, don't venture that way very often. ;)--> I think it's a good question and a serious issue that people like me wrestle with sometimes. Oenophile has a great thread on the subject in Doctrinal also: 1 Corinthians 7:10-11 Would anyone care to weigh in on this issue? Please. :)-->

Smurfette, remember that God looks on the heart and things are not always so black & white with God as they are with TWI. I think God probably isn't very happy with my divorce, but I also think He was sad to see both of us so miserable. I think I'm right about TWI and my ex thinks he is. We'll find out someday, but until then, I'm just going to continue to believe we did the best thing and I'll continue to live my life the best way I know how and possibly can with no guilt and no regrets. This may get more responses on the About the Way forum. I'm going to post it up there, too, for you. I hope you don't mind. :)-->