Belle

After GSpot closes, Bob and one of the other posters left start an off-shoot website. They lure some of the others back because it is a "kinder, gentler" site and mis-spelled words are now okay. Grammatical errors, however, will keep you from the more "advanced" areas of the site, but they ARE deemed acceptable for those who aren't "mature enough" to use spell and grammer check on their posts. Meanwhile, I continue my prolific posts on the other site and attain many rewards and a prestigious status level because I attain 10,000 posts. It's not as special because excathedra has now reached 100,000 posts, but it IS special nonetheless.

JT, it's all based on the special lunch time dinners they serve. They're secretly adding truth serum to the food so that they can find out who the non kool-aid drinkers are that are left. The side effect of the serum is different colored pee based on the acidity of the person's body.

p.s. I still have a copy of the research and, I think it would surprise you. If you'd like a copy feel free to send me a private topic.

I, too, am interested in answers to these questions, MDVaden. I wasn't kicked out for posting on GSpot, but I was accused of it and they were NOT happy about the prospect of my posting on here. I DID get into serious trouble, ask Oak mentioned, for sending a letter and pretty darn good research about debt to a friend of mine at HQ who was contemplating going back to college but couldn't afford it. They went to a lot of trouble to track down where the letter came from and spent a whole day "confronting" me about sharing research that was contradictory to TWI's doctrine and legalistic rules about debt.

JT, why YES they do! :D--> The class and the collaterals have been the foundation of pretty much all the teachings in TWI the past few years. They all tie of course to giving, outreach, obedience and now "sticking with the ministry that taught you the word", but they are very much adhering to PFAL and the plagarized works of vpw.

MDVaden, how much is TOO much? Is 40 Million Dollars enough? What about accountability by the church for the money? Should the church be informed as to where the money is going and how, specifically, it is being used to help people? What IS considered helping people?

I think Steve!'s karma should be changed to "Gatekeeper of THE" or are you "THE Keymaster"?

Well, I have a gun AND a stockpile of food and supplies. What does that make ME? :D--> I'm a pretty darn good shot, too.

O! My favorite letter in THE alphabet. :P-->

True or not, I have always liked that, Pirate! It makes me grin every time I read it. I read the book a long time ago, Cowgirl, and don't remember much about it except that men don't like to "open up" about their feelings as freely, often and quickly as women do. Sometimes they need to go to their "cave" and be alone and the best thing a woman can do is allow him to do that. I think that's the "tinker" gene in men who like to work on things like cars and boats. Other men do other things, but the point is to be alone and have time to revel in whatever emotions are running through him.

Just because the physical symptoms of withdrawal are worse doesn't mean it's any less addictive psychologically or in other ways. I quit for a long time but NEVER quit craving cigarettes. Anytime I was around smokers, I'd move closer to them just to inhale the 2nd hand smoke.

:D--> I got the first vote in! I imagine that I'm in the minority of posters (less than a year), but not in the minority of lurkers. ;)--> Hopefully some of the "innie" lurkers will vote.

George! Say it isn't so!!! You can't leave your "Monkees" fanclub card behind! :(-->

MDVaden, Life really isn't as black & white as taught in TWI. Maya Angelou said, "when we know better, we do better." I agree. Actually, a lot of what I heard in TWI I already had learned in the Baptist church and/or from my parents. Other things were new to me, but they were mostly the "shock value" teachings that now I question as to how those teachings help me in my personal relationship with God. To paraphrase a quote heard quite often in TWI, "If you aren't growing; you're dying. Nothing is stagnant." So, yes, I'm "proving whether those things are so" and holding on to the good. If I learn better, then I'll do better, but I don't wonder if I'll look back on "today" as I look back on "yesterday". I just keep moving along and try to learn from my mistakes. I'm not sure what you're getting at, but life is a growth process and I'm continually learning new things and seeing things in a different light. It doesn't mean I think everything I did or thought "then" was wrong. I was doing the best I could. I think most people are also doing the best they can, we're just at different stages and places in life and some people's "best" is nowhere near other people's "best". I CAN tell you that I will never regret leaving a manipulative, lying, destructive group and reconciling with my family and friends and asking their forgiveness for being so cold, cruel and heartless for so many years. How about you, MDVaden? Have you changed how you've though over the years? If so, will you change again? What do you think about TWI's changing on tithe vs. abundant sharing and net vs. gross income giving? TWI's changing doctrine and teachings on owning a home vs. renting? TWI's teaching on adultery being okay to teaching that it's NOT okay and sex outside of marriage is no longer okay? Are there any other parts that you hold to and others that you correct?

OH HAPPY DAY, ABIGAIL! I hope it's as wonderful as you are! :D--> :D--> :D-->

I'm not WordWolf, but I do know Remo. ;)--> Can I play? Fred Ward Tremors Kevin Bacon I see you both went to the same charm school. Remo: Jesus. Cheun: Concentrate - this is no time for prayer.

AMEN! Thank you for sharing this article, WB.

Welcome Miss Boop who isn't new here. :)-->

I still have much of my Y2K supplies and I over buy canned groceries all the time, so I think I would be okay. I'd probably get sick of SPAM and beanie weenies, but I'd have water, the ability to sanitize water, food, batteries, a butane gas grill..... All that stuff we gathered for the last armageddon that was coming our way. The only thing I don't have is that darn inventory of every single item in my house.

MDVaden, I’d like to take a stab at some of your questions and comments, if I may. I’ll preface my comments by letting you know that I have been uninvolved with TWI for less than a year. I also have been divorced for less than a year. Much of this is due to the suggestion from the Region Coordinator and the local Way Corps to my ex-husband because I decided to no longer attend TWI functions. (BTW, the Region Coordinator’s wife is one of the leaders who counseled some of the women abused by Craig Martindale and did nothing to stop him.) were grand days of joy….with great fruit. Can you honestly say that today, MDVaden? I couldn’t have said anything like that honestly in the past ten years. Many things we did want to do for fun were squashed by local leadership because they would have violated some unspoken “rule” of TWI. I realize things are different in each area, but this is how it was in my area and it was not fun. With all due respect, I am going to disagree with you and UH on this one. I did not CHOOSE to be confused. I was looking for answers which is how I ended up at TWI. I had gotten many answers from my church growing up, but I had moved away from home AND I had more questions. The people I met said they had answers. I took those answers and the keys you mentioned on another thread and applied them. I found that some of the things TWI was teaching (from HQ down to the twig level) were incorrect according to what I found. I was given such a song and dance by the household fellowship coordinator up to the Way Corps over the area that it wasn’t even funny. I was told by some that I was right and others told me I was right, but that the problem was with me. TWI is still teaching incorrect doctrine despite my attempts and the attempts of others on this board, to show them a more accurate way. So, no. I did not choose to be confused and I did not accept something off kilter. I did follow proper TWI protocol and saw nothing change despite my efforts. Are the teachings of TWI at the Sunday services not approved of first by Rosalie and Donna anymore? Do they not have to conform to TWI doctrine? Is one free to teach something that is truly accurate but not in line with what TWI teaches? The three individual members dictate what goes into the Way Magazine, into the verses of the songs, into the teachings that are allowed all throughout TWI. Therefore, a teacher in TWI teaching and adhering to TWI doctrine IS a false teacher. A leader in TWI who labeled some people as mark & avoid because they wouldn’t sell their homes in the 90’s is a false teacher. IMO, the people who ARE NOT false teachers have left TWI or are floundering desperately trying to affect change because they see the problems. LCM did sit with the mouths of more than two or three witnesses in person and do you know what happened to them? They were kicked out of TWI and had to file a lawsuit to get TWI to listen to them. Do you know who was there when he was confronted? Your president and her personal assistant as well as others who are still in charge and making command decisions for your ministry. I consider it very relevant that past behavior is a pretty darn good indication of present and future behavior, especially when those with bad past records refuse to apologize or even admit to having done some of the things court documents can prove by their own mouth. Honestly, MDVaden, the times I felt truly blessed, loved, nurtured and encouraged were few and far between. Looking back it was probably my first six months to year of being involved with TWI. After that time it became a constant struggle to be good enough and to attend every meeting or have a darn good excuse for not being there because “I didn’t feel like it” wouldn’t cut it. I took four years of begging to be removed from assistant fellowship coordinator status and a “confrontation” session for us to finally have relief from that time and pressure requirement. An organization is only as good as it’s people. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. It’s the Word, not the people. The Word, The Word and nothing but The Word (as long as it’s what TWI teaches that The Word is). The people attending fellowships are sweet, kind lambs and they are being led and deceived by wolves in sheep’s clothing. Is it the people or is it The Word? If it’s The Word then it should be The Word correctly divided and the people should be willing to change when they find they have been teaching The Word incorrectly. If 1/100 th of the things you read here on Gspot are true (and I believe much more than that is true) then the people leading TWI are worse than Eli and his sons and we aren’t limited in our choices of where to worship like the people in Eli’s area were. The wise and prudent thing to do, imo, is find where people speak, act, live and teach the rightly divided Word. Where it’s okay to ask questions. Where you can make your own choices and do not have to worry about how your actions may be construed. Where all leadership sets the example and is held accountable to the people of the congregation. Where the books and finances are an open book to the congregation since that is their money. I respect you, MDVaden. Kudos to you! I hope you stick around and I hope you find what you’re looking for here. GALEN: I took cookies to our new neighbors and introduced myself. I baked and brought yummy cheeseballs and hot coffee to a dog competition this week-end because many people were camping out and did not have access to these kinds of goodies. I also volunteered my time to help in quite a few ways because they were short-handed. I volunteer my database skills for free to a group that desperately needed my help. I’ve stopped on the side of the road to loan my cell phone or a ride to people who have been broken down several times in the past few months. I’ve met some really nice, neat people this way. I type my neighbor's chuch group agenda and other paperwork each week for her. Do these count?

My turn! :D--> Smurfette, I hope our banter is helping you as much as it is me. :)--> That was, I think the turning point for me. For the first 4 years it was me hiding things from him after I realized I couldn't tell him everything all at once. I was doling it out in little kibbles and bits trying to get him to make those baby steps toward seeing how evil TWI is. I felt horrible and like a total liar, which I was, but I felt justified in my actions and I did share everything else with him. He was my best friend, after all. When he quit sharing with me and telling me things we had nothing left to talk about except my mistakes and inadequacies as a wife, house keeper, believer, person taking up space in the gene pool. When I started therapy the tables were turned and he felt left out. The thing is, he's the one who closed the door because he wouldn't listen and didn't care about those things. He still didn't care about them, but didn't want anyone else to know about them either. LOL! We have WAY TOO MUCH in common! I sucked at being a hypocrite and hated every minute of it. I'm amazed I lasted as long as I did because it was very obvious that I was so over TWI and their silly games. My brother kept telling my mom that they would tell me one too many times not to do something and I'd be outta there. LOL! He knows me better than I know myself sometimes. Thanks. I feel like I really truly did give it everything I had and have no regrets about our divorce because of it. If I had fought hard that first day I told him I wanted out then I would feel like I pushed the issue too hard and didn't give him a chance. (He begged me to stay in TWI and to "please don't do this to our marriage". He KNEW what was going to happen.) I gave him five years to decide what he was going to allow TWI to do to our marriage and he made the choice. I can move on with no regrets. You're way too kind, Bob. Remember that you're only hearing one side of the story. I'm sure my ex would tell you things about me that would make your hair curl. ;)--> I can tell you some of them, but then I wouldn't be able to pretend to be all sugar and spice. I have to think about your question. Can I get back to you on that?

We also learned how to eat "properly" and follow the rules of the cafeteria. I hear that donna is now teaching this at the classes. We were subjected to "history lessons" about the ministry that taught us the word and how hard vee pee worked to get the word to us. We learned more about the trip to India and how they left their baby behind. :(--> We were cut off from all radio, tv, newspaper and any other outside world influences. We had our rooms inspected to make sure they were clean and tidy enough. We learned how to shower with a bunch of other women. TOTALLY new experience for me. One of my roommates would get up at 4am just to avoid having to shower with all the other women. It wasn't just the teachings that contributed to the indoctrination process, imo. It was the whole environment and atmosphere. I wonder if it's changed much since the students are required to stay in hotels now.

Oops! No wonder I had a hard time picturing him being the beastly man I've been reading about! :)--> Jos*ph & Paul* Wr*nn - that's it! Thank you. Tom, they had every room wired for sound so you could hear and/or see the class in just about any room in the house. Must have been put in after they bought it. I remember thinking they were a wee bit extreme.....little did I know I would join them on the extreme side. I'm really interested in hearing about your birthday!

How about a just plain common sense option? I don't believe in the law of believing the way it's taught in that class. Everyday life experiences will tell you that it's wrong. When it doesn't work the way it was taught, TWI throws in all kinds of other caveats to explain why it doesn't work "in this case". It works or it doesn't. IMO, it doesn't. It doesn't take any of those "keys" to come to that conclusions. IF the administrations are correct then why does TWI only use illustrations from the OT to enforce some of the legalism they impose on people? (e.g. things that aren't covered in the epistles but are areas where TWI wants to manipulate people.) It doesn't take using those "keys" to see the inconsistencies between what they say and what they do. I'll think on some more. A certain poster on here has pretty much soured me on any PFAL discussions and should he decide to jump on this thread I will disappear from it, but happily continue any discussions in private topics or by e-mail.

Welcome OutinTexas! I enjoy hearing your story. So glad you are out and healing. Therapy is wonderful, isn't it? I'd hate to think of where I would be and how I would be handling getting "out" if it wasn't for the objective ear to bend every once in a while.