Belle

Chas, I've been out less than a year. I hope you get answers to your questions. I'll tell you that they were not told the truth about Martindale stepping down. Which lawsuit with the communications dept. operator? I don't think I know about that one. They don't know about the abs lawsuit. Maybe in the states affected, they do, but not anywhere else. Information like that is given on a "need to know" basis. --> The outcome was not explained. We were told that TWI settled because they would have lost their a$$ if they had taken it to court. LCM was obviously guilty of what he did, but nothing was mentioned about rosie and donna and others covering and enabling him. We were told that insurance money paid for the lawyers and that none of our abs went to any of these cases. Maybe things were different in other areas, but this is how it went down in my area.

Pretty big generalization there, MDVaden. I’m wondering how much you’ve looked around. I actually see those keys more in “so-called Christians” than I ever did in TWI. And….as you are most likely going to say, there’s good and bad everywhere and not all people in TWI are perfect. Well, not all “so-called Christians” are either. And I’d really like to know what your definition of “so-called Chrisitans” is and how you think you’re qualified to determine whether someone is a Christian or a “so-called Christian”. Hmmmmm, being yelled at and told that God won’t spit in your direction. Told that if you leave “the one true household of god you’ll be a greasespot by midnight. Told that you should not speak with people who have been M&A despite the fact that we don’t M&A people anymore. Told that you’re an immature believer if you have debt…..all those things are speech with grace? Is that what you mean? Telling someone who is in desperate need that they should call their family (whom they quit speaking with because of a “strong suggestion” from leadership) for help? Not calling on someone in your branch or fellowship who had major surgery to see if they’re okay or if they need anything? Not speaking, would that be considered a word fitly spoken? Telling someone who needs help that they just need to believe God when you actually have the tools and means to really be of help. That kind of fitly spoken word? Some of the kindest, nicest, most healing things I’ve heard in the past few years have come from those “so-called Christians” and those no-so Christians. I can’t say the same about the people in TWI. Leadership having your own, very nice home (some with multi-million dollar expansions that aren’t necessary)….Having a “head table”…..getting mad at someone who doesn’t stand when you enter the room…..always going first in line…..expecting people to clean your house and help you move while you don’t llift a finger to help any of them…..having rules for people to obey when you’re in town or visiting….those kinds of things? Funny, I don’t see that happening in the churches or around the “so-called Christians” I’ve been around. Yeah it’s edifying to sit through a phone hook-up to hear a teaching I’m going to hear again on a tape and again twice in fellowship. It’s edifying to have my life micro-managed and my finances exposed to people who don’t know jack about financial matters. It’s edifying to have to move every few years because rent goes up just so I can stay out of debt and maintain my status and access to the “higher seat” in the group. I guess holding over $40 Million in the coffers and going on exotic trips while telling my people that we are broke and really need for them to step up their abundant sharing isn’t seeking not her/his own. Neither is living in upper middle class neighborhoods while the rest of the people you oversee live in working class neighborhoods and go without cable tv so they can afford to provide you the lavish lifestyle you’re used to. Is warning people to stay away from those who left TWI and telling them that they are possessed rejoicing in iniquity? If it’s the prudent thing to do, then consider that that’s what we’re doing here. I’m not going to continue on. I think you get the picture. I can find all these things in the “so-called believers” of TWI and I could give you local and extremely recent examples, but I don’t want to go there right now. PT me if you want specifics. My point is….look hard enough for anything and you’ll find it. With these keys, it’s not hard to find people in or out of TWI who don’t set fine examples of them. But, I think it’s easier to find people following them outside the walls of your zion. That’s what we’re supposed to do. That’s why the Bible was written…”for our learning”. (I’m assuming this is a snide comment about Gspot and the people who post here.) To ignore the treachery of TWI and the lives that have been ruined by terrible, evil leadership is wrong. To warn those sheep and lambs of God who may get harmed by the wolves in sheep’s clothing leaders of TWI is the right thing to do, imo.

I look at it as kind of like Amway. They get you there where you can't leave right away and THEN they tell you the things they KNOW would have kept you from coming if you had known them up front. I haven't looked, but I don't think they mention speaking in tongues on the site either.

Awwww, Zshot....We're just kidding around. Much as I would LOVE to find that someone special, I still haven't either. Don't give up hope, though! Look at Oak, his woman didn't come from here. ArkieRon's woman didn't come from here. There's hope for us yet, my friend!

JT, Yowsa! You keep on JustThinking(Naughty)! ;)-->

I'm officially possessed. I'm hosting a bevy of devil spirits. It's true; just ask anyone in my area. I think it was a requirement for my divorce. It certainly wasn't because of anything my ex did or didn't do. I could tell y'all which ones I KNOW they say I have, but I don't want to tarnish my image anymore than I have by letting y'all know that I am, indeed, possessed. :o-->

Chas, that says a lot right there. I think that's where some of the differences of opinion on here come from. For some it was just a church, for others it was the "end all and be all" way to God and, later, guaranteed rewards at the bema. It was all consuming and took over the lives of those who were around the snakes. It was just a church to some of those who chose not to tow the line or who didn't experience the snakes we did. Thanks, too, for the stories about the people getting sent home or getting in trouble. I don't feel so bad now. :)-->

O&A, You CELEBRATE, Girl! It IS something to celebrate! :D--> :D--> :D--> Especially considering all that you went through. Can we get a pitcher of cold beer sent to O&A'a table, please? Put it on my tab.

Lifted, I was making a smile and really don't recognize JT. I also don't recognize the story about raiding the women in the VPW home and would LOVE to hear that one! ;)--> Thank you! :)-->

:D--> BUSTED! :D--> Seriously, though. Isn't it ironic that traffic has increased three-fold since October? It's like hardly anyone went on there and now there's a lot of traffic? Am I reading the figures right? Knowing how TWI operates, it seems like they must have been "strongly suggesting" that people visit the website on a regular basis. Maybe now they have to teach off the monthly sections they have. JT, they still didn't encourage us to go there in my area and that was as late as July last year. But we know all the areas are different.

They aren't going to start scraping the gum off the bottom of the tables, are they? --> I've been saving some of those for a special occasion.

Or is it "Does the Means Justify the End?" Anyway..... We know that vee pee plagarized most of what he taught and that he "persuaded" the research experts in his own organization to either come up with stuff that supported what he wanted to teach (correctly or not) or keep quiet. We know that he and craig abused women and that they had people who covered for them and who actually enabled their horrible behavior. We know that vee pee was an alcoholic and did exhibit almost all, if not all, traits of a sociopath narcissist. We know that there is a history of lies to the believers and a host of other things unbecoming to a group who claims to be representatives for God and followers of the Lord Jesus Christ. HOWEVER, people state that they learned the Bible and they had their lives saved because of TWI. It's possible. It's also possible that people were told by God to get out of Dodge such as in the article recently posted about it. I think by WaterBuffalo. Just because some people received some good from their experience in TWI does the end justify the means? Just curious as to what y'all think about it.

I was looking around at some old posts and found this site: TWI Web Accesses If I'm looking at it correctly visits to their site has tripled on a monthly basis since October which is their "new year" right?

I also don't think you're goofy, Galen. I think you're SPECIAL! ;)--> I agree with you that the themes and teachings point a group in the direction it will head. TWI got far from teaching about the fruits of the spirit and began focusing only on giving money, obedience to TWI legalism and witnessing to bring more money into TWI. I believe that even if they had kept the simple, basic fruits of the spirit in their focus that because of their inherent corruption, they would have just perverted those topics and twisted them to require the $$, obedience and witnessing to actually express any fruit of the spirit.....OH WAIT, they DID do that! :)--> They certainly did. I think it's in the WAP class, but I'll have to look it up. 'Twould be nice if TWI had the capacity and potential for goodness that you so want to attribute to it, Galen, but I'm afraid it never did and never will. I also think there are very very few of those good-hearted people like you left in TWI today. If there are, they certainly aren't in a major leadership position.

I hope MDVaden didn't get in too much trouble and that he gets to come back to read the responses.

Mr. H, think? Think? THINK??? You should KNOW we are great! :D--> JT, I'd PT with you any day. ;)--> (that should really get the rumor mill running)

LOL! Dear Galen you ARE special and not in a short bus kind of way. ;)--> You crack me up! Thanks for the giggle this morning. :D--> Unless you were going through my things, you were NOT responsible for my discomfort. Kind of weird sounds like kind of an understatement. :)--> I loved 'Das Boot' but it's been a while. I'll have to watch it again.

Mr. H, I think you've pretty much nailed it for these days. The new people will find out as soon as they start asking questions. That uncomfortable feeling like you've just wandered into forbidden territory and then you wonder WHY it would be forbidden territory. Later you just observe what's okay to talk about and what's not. It's pretty amazing to think back on how those unwritten rules are established.

Isn't it AMAZING what you can see and start to realize and understand once you actually look at what's "out there"? They say there's nothing better "out there", but they haven't even looked "out there" so how do they know and why did I take their word for it for so long? -->

Likewise, my friend. :)--> Check your private topics so we can REALLY get some rumors started. ;)-->

Bringing this to the top again by request. :)-->

LMAO! It's a good thing I invested in a good screen cleaner.

Me too, ex! I just got my screen cleaned off and he starts up again......

Dear, Galen. :)--> You must have done and continue to do so many wonderful things for God for how much he protected you in TWI. I LIVE on the computer. My job depends on it. I also rely on it in my personal life: e-mail, e-pay, news, shopping, etc... I'm a news junkie and need my news in the morning as bad as I need my coffee. :D--> Two weeks without things like this that one is used to is torture. I know YOU'RE used to it, but YOU'RE special. ;)--> I don't know where the room inspections came from but I had the idea that it was standard protocol for the class. I remember hearing people from previous classes talking about their inspections and one couple got in trouble for putting their wet towel in the wrong place. I remember feeling rather uncomfortable that someone was coming into my room and had access to my "stuff" when I wasn't there. Furthermore, I dreaded lunch time to have to hear about those who failed inspection and praying it wasn't me. Yes, I took P.E. and have belonged to many a gym. I have NEVER been in a place where women shared a shower. Maybe it's from being raised in the Bible Belt *shrug* but I wasn't the only one who had never been exposed to showering with other women. I think guys grow up sharing bathrooms and showers so it's no big deal to them, but women do everything privately growing up and sharing something like that is extremely uncomfortable for the more modest women.

Maybe someone can list the more well known offshoots and links to them so that MDVaden can see the differences and similarities. MDVaden, one of them has some of the major researchers from TWI teaching. These were the people vpw and lcm went to when they had a research department at TWI. One site has the differences and similarities listed or their doctrinal beliefs....I can't remember. One group even sends out free audio taped teachings. I have only been out of TWI a few months so I don't know much of anything about the off-shoots, but like was mentioned, you'll hear either really really good things about them or really really bad things. I know that all the leaders who came from TWI are willing to discuss any questions someone has about TWI as well as why the left.