Belle

I wonder if they will sell Gunnison or try to convince people to move up there to help take care of it as the number of people willing to go into the corps continues to decline. How many people does it take to keep up the place? How much does it cost to keep it running? Will they sell off more of HQ? They already have a staggering staff to "believer" ratio. Will they "strongly suggest" that people start closing in the ranks and move to the "root" locations? In 10 years where will they be? Some group no one has ever heard of with maybe 500 members? Still peddling the same "collaterals" and classes with their noses in the air bragging that they are the "one true household of God". Greasespot will become much more active on all the other forums and Weenie Roasts will be like a family or class reunion that everyone looks forward to each year. GSpot There just won't be that many people left to help because they will have all left TWI and the only ones left are people like the Moneyhands who just can't fathom having to do actual work in the "real world".

ABSOLUTELY AWESOME!!!! :D--> :D--> :D--> :D--> Congratulations, Aaron!!!! :D--> :D--> :D--> :D-->

I will say, having been married to a cop, that the bad guys have absolutely no rules and every day there are more and more laws that make it harder for law enforcement to do anything to help the general population. I can't tell you how many times my ex could have and would have loved to have done something to protect people, but was not able to because he would have been violating some law or exposing the department to multi-million dollar lawsuits. Unless you've experienced it, it's hard to explain how frustrating that can be. I'm all for levelling the playing field and culling the gene pool by allowing natural selection to run its course. ;)-->

Regarding phone lines and hook-ups.... We used to have phone hook-ups at 3 different homes because there wasn't anywhere big enough to hold everyone (not that there were that many of us). One home would call in to hq and get hooked up, then call home #2 who would then call home #3 so that all 3 locations could be on the same line to hq. The sound quality absolutely suck*d! I would leave with either a headache from all the crackling and feedback or from straining to hear what was being said. There were probably 12-18 people at each location. So, at the MOST, 60 per phone hook up, but hardly ever really that many. They took ABS and then after the hook-up would ask for money to help pay the phone bill. I'm sure they collected WAY more money than the phone call cost, but doubt if the homeowners got any of that. And why didn't TWI pay for the paltry phone call if they wanted everyone "tapped in" so badly? I have it on very good authority that a mere 1,600 attended the AC Special in November and that the largest limb is about 400 people and that's more than one state. I can't give you any more specifics than that. How many limbs are there?

Incredible, Mike! Thank you for sharing your story with us. I'm sorry that you, too, have suffered at the hands of TWI. Guilty? The short answer is, "NO" you shouldn't feel guilty. TWI set the rules and unrealistic expectations, not God. Many religions do the same thing, unfortunately. God is a personal God and does not require 1/100000000th of the things that we were taught. People, not God, try to make us feel guilty to control us and to get whatever it is they want from us. You have a great wife, a great family and are doing very well so obviously you're doing many things right. :)--> Enjoy the fruits of your labor guilt-free and I hope that you stick around.

Where are the two Flat Stanleys? Are they still having fun?

Oh Drat! :D--> And I have your wine! Guess we'll just HAVE to meet again. ;)--> Hope & John were the greatest host & hostess! I took pictures, but will have to get them developed since I'm still in the dark ages and don't have a digital camera.

Bear with me here....I've been fighting a collosal sinus infection, in fact I'm surprised Hope & John didn't kick me out of their house this week-end with all my hacking and sweating....I'm still fighting foggy brain, so I hope this makes sense. We often fantasize about TWI shutting the doors and how nice it will be knowing that they aren't able to hurt anymore people. But then we know that it's really just a fantasy because there are suckers born every minute and they will continue to find a few people here or there who are luddites or are easily persuaded that all the information on the web is false. I picture TWI becoming something like those "Doomsday Cults" who constantly predict the end of the world that people laugh at all the time. (Not that TWI will be predicting the end of the world, just saving the world from destruction like with Y2K.) They brag about being small in number and "the precious remnant" of God, but who "outside" TWI is going to buy that? Not anyone reasonably intelligent. People are wary of groups who are small, it usually means they are "off the wall" or have something seriously wrong that not many people are interested in them. They brag about there being "nothing better out there", but that sounds really ignorant coming from a church where there are youth programs, youth group trips, mission trips, choir, handbells, weekly Bible study (just as intellectual based as TWI's), all kinds of classes, women's groups, men's groups, small home based fellowship groups.....all kinds of ways to get involved IF YOU WANT TO. What does TWI offer? - Small home fellowship groups where you sing the same songs over and over and hear the same teachings that you just listened to on a tape or phone hook-up and read in a magazine. - Classes, but they only run every so often and when they do they take up all your time. - Larger meetings where, if you're "special" you "get" to clean up, string chairs and run AV while you "rub elbows" with the almighty leadership. --> - Mission trips are actually a 6 month requirement, not a week or long week-end event AND you have no control over where you go. The loaded language is so prevalent now in TWI, especially with things like Christmas and Easter that people pick up on it right away and it strikes them as "odd". They also pick up on the micro-management of their time when they first sign up for the WAP class. We've moved away from the "Peace, Love and Rock & Roll" era to a much more skeptical and cautious society in many ways. That being said, there are new groups like "Landmark" sucking people in on a daily basis. All I can figure is they must have something "big fat claim" that I haven't heard yet, but whatever it is, it's obviously more shiny than TWI's.

I didn't spend any time at any of the TWIt locations to have any smell memories, but I do know they are awfully powerful. One of my favorite smells in the whole wide world is old house, cigarette smoke and fried food all combined together. Smells like my grandmother's house and it takes me back to growing up and her love and the great times I had with her. My favorite restaurant here not only serves food like she used to cook, but also has the same smells. :D--> Gross to some, but I love it!

AMEN, SISTAH!! Very well put! That's exactly what I think, too! Having spent some time with some long timers this week-end, I can see the fun and good times that people had while they were in, especially in the "good ole days" when they had much more freedom and were learning new things and not aware of the horrible things going on. Can't blame them for having had a good time and for being glad that they have the friendships and relationships they now have because of TWI. I just don't think it's all or nothing - black or white for everyone. Maybe for some people, but not for everyone. And we shouldn't be resentful or mad at people who did have a good time and got good things from TWI. It's not their fault that we had mostly bad times. I'm very sorry for the nasty, awful things people went through, but I am glad to have met you all here.

HAPPY ANNIVERSARY, JT! :D--> My 1 year anniversary will be coming up soon! :D--> I don't know the answer to your question, but maybe bringing this to the top again will get you an answer from someone in the know.

--> I'm new! Do I count? It's been less than a year since I had my marriage ripped apart by TWI and quit attending TWIt functions. I am constantly in contact with quite a few "innies" who lurk and I get my kicks on GSpot in more than just the "About the Way" forums. I've actually made friends and we actually have common interests outside our common involvement with TWI. We get together and we have fun without TWI ever coming up. Imagine that! TWI is rarely spoken of in the chat room. It's more of a place for friends to get together and hang out. We met because of TWI, but we're friends because of much more than that. I'll second what diazbro said. Your post does sound rather condescending and it is getting rather tired reading posts of your nature. I won't go there because I'm not as politically correct as others. I will say that I'm glad people are still hanging around telling the same tired stories because I haven't heard them all and it really helps me. :D-->

So true. So true. This is basically what they are teaching again and they are getting more bold and blunt about it. No one wants to feel like a failure and we all want to be "the best" so telling people that they are inferior if they aren't fully committed to TWI and scaring them with spiritual "consequences" if they break a commitment to TWI that they never made in the first place is just plain spiritual blackmail! Bob, my vows and salt covenant had no mention of TWI either. Funny how some seem to think part of the vows included "as long as we both drink the kool-aid"...

Amen! And let me also welcome you to the GSpot! :D--> Glad to have you here and look forward to hearing more from you.

Very interesting, Song. Our actions do seem to have further reaching consequences than we might imagine or even know about at times. There was some interesting stuff on the Science Channel about that this week, but I don't know if I could articulate it in any way that would make sense to anyone. :)--> Like we're made up of waves of information and particles of matter and those waves of information have more of an impact than just our immediate surroundings.

How sad! They probably get away with a lot more since they are so far away from HQ and because the wayfer mentality is that leadership is infallible and should be protected at all costs unless it becomes embarrassingly public such as through lawsuits.

Thank you for sharing your amazing story. You were able to "see the sermon" TWI was teaching and wisely ran the other way. Good for you! :)--> Sounds like you're doing very well and are very happy and peaceful. That's wonderful! I LOVE playing the handbells and played with my church from 7th grade till I graduated college. It's the most beautiful sound to me. Truly making music with your friends. :)--> My Director of music during that time had a major impact on my life and I spent a great deal of time with him. I'm sure you provide the same wonderful example that he did. Thanks for sharing.

Me too, Mr. H, me too. I'm sure the ride was fun in the beginning, but somewhere along the line the option to leave became less and less an option. If I don't like my job, I can find another one. If I don't like where I live, I can always move. They don't have that freedom. They couldn't find another job now and they are told where to live (to a degree) and how much they can spend on rent. They can't leave unless they are independently wealthy because they could never make it in "the real world" since they've been sucking on TWIt tit for so long.

Shellon, you really should be ashamed. Insulting penises like that. ;)--> JustLoafing, I've no doubt that the people who go through wc training thinking they are going to be able to change things will have a rude awakening. I think, too, it will be an eye opening experience culminating in either drinking the kool-aid or disillusionment and walking away. I'm just sorry they have to waste so many years to get to that point. dmiller, excellent post! They don't understand constructive criticism because they are always on the defensive, but they fail to understand that they are always on the defensive because they refuse to accept the constructive criticism to change and thereby continue (as they see it) being attacked.

I'm glad that some people had great experiences while they were involved. I really enjoy hearing about them, too. I do think God moved in TWI in the early years and that many people were touched and healed and found peace in their lives. I don't think he moved in the leaders, it was the "little ones" / "lesser vessels" / "foolish things" / "weak things" who were doing all the work. They were the ones God was able to work with because of their pure hearts. When the black-hearted people started pushing them away that's when the people being affected by the evil began to multiply. 1 Cr 1:27

Aright, fine. You want quotes? ;)--> Here's a few for you: Matt 5:13 Mark 9:50 Galations 6:10 Hebrews 13:17You have to keep salted on the word and the only way to do that is with the only group who truly stands on God's word and rightly divides it. You leave the household and you're no better than dirt to be trodden on. Stay salted stay at peace with one another in the household. We need each other to keep us sharp on the word. "Iron sharpeneth iron" remember? God obviously esteems the household over everyone else, it's right there in black & white. We stand in the gap for you. We watch over you and help you and teach you the word, therefore you should obey us and our stupid rules and do everything within your means to keep us fat & happy. I was never able to discredit these arguments in my house.

mzimagine, I don't understand fully what's going on, but reconciling with old friends and/or family members is a great thing! :)--> Getting involved with TWI again is not. :(--> You've learned a lot since leaving and are more in touch with your "gut feelings" and natural responses to things. If something doesn't feel right, acknowledge that and don't second guess yourself. Have they learned a lot since you last spoke? Do they really understand how good friendships and good family members love and care for each other regardless of what church they go to? Do they have a better understanding of unconditional love? Can they and are they willing to extend that kind of true genuine relationship to you? *shrug* Only you will be able to tell. :)--> I wish the best for you!

mzimagine, I started cursing a lot more when I started hearing the wc doing it all the time. Seems like everyone in our limb had potty mouth problems. I'm trying to get better at that, but I still sound like a sailor sometimes. :o-->

NZ sounds pretty scary! Isn't this also where they had the Way homes and pretty much expected people to live together who had no business living in the same house?

You're cool-er! :D-->