Belle

So, even in telling people publicly this most likely fabricated story about giving his eye for God, he still never admitted publicly that it was cancer?

Come on, Bob! You know those worldly unbelievers can't be trusted! I wonder if she pimped for vee pee, too. That would explain a lot...... So, if this had gone to the jury and everyone had been convicted, would this had meant jail time for the fox and ms. biden?

I see what you're saying Raf, but three years really isn't THAT long in the whole scheme of things. Although I'll give you he didn't drop dead the minute after he gave up all power to craiggers. It IS ironic though, to me, that they: said cancer was a devil spirit yet vee pee died of cancer. Implied that if you were really walking with God you could/should live to be very old like the Godly men and women in the Bible yet vee pee died very young. It's not Biblical to serve till the last minute and die yet vee pee only hung around for another three years and probably didn't expect to live that long given his health.

This is a very interesting article I read this morning. I found a church with the freedom to come and go, participate as much or little, give as much or little as I like so I quit looking at other churches. This article makes some interesting observations about the religions and churches some people choose because they WANT to belong to controlling, manipulating churches. Having been through what we have been through it’s so hard for me to fathom. http://www.slate.com/id/2118313/?GT1=6443 moral superiority – I remember all too well spouting and proclaiming my moral superiority in the office. Now I cringe thinking about how I acted. Were we submissive to TWI’s ridiculous rules because our egos liked the piety we perceived ourselves as having? I know some of us were certainly afraid to have to face God at the Bema because we hadn’t adhered 100% to TWI’s doctrines and regulations. I can only hope that t his is true. It appears to be thus far given the dramatically declining numbers in TWI. Wayfers definitely have no livelihood given that they spend most of their money paying ridiculous rental fees, fixing up clunkers and providing the lavish lifestyles of the “spiritually mature” who “stand in the gap” for them. Sounds like Pope Benedict XVI and craiggers may have something in common. ;)-->

Uncle Howard's Mattress was a very good thread on ole Uncle Howard. Maybe someone can find it and put up a link to it. I would love to see Howie step up and "clarify" things, but it's never going to happen because there's just as much dirt on his shoes as on anyone he would expose. Some of the women that vee pee abused and raped would be sent to howie for more "healing". Howie's going to keep his mouth shut because he is still depending on TWI to take care of him and his family. He's probably worried about how quickly they will be moved to an "assisted living facility" and forced to pay for it all themselves. With Imogene having the freedom to sit around eating bon bons and watch her soap operas all day, she can't be very healthy. They also have to keep their mouths shut because the kids are all still very involved in TWI and Micha*l Fort* and Howie's daughter are still sucking the TWI tit for their room and board. I wonder how much the kids know about the rotten things Howie did.

I'm in therapy and I think it's a wonderful thing! I absolutely needed it in the beginning of the end of my marriage. Now, I probably don't need it anymore, but I continue because it's great to be able to bounce things off an objective person and to think out loud with someone who's not going to tell you what you want to hear, but rather what you need to hear. I also love my therapist, his background makes it very easy for him to understand where I'm coming from and what I experienced in TWI. I recommend at least checking it when you get out or if you catch yourself thinking about TWI alot - even if you think you don't need it. ;)--> Regarding returning to the TWI vomit....not gonna happen. I never had any truly great times and therefore, not many fond memories. There's nothing there for me, never really was. I was sort of in limbo the whole time I was "in" because the control and immersion happened so fast after I got married. It was almost like once I got my head to quit spinning I was able to stop the merry-go-round and get out. I know that's very different for others and that many TWI-1's (not all, but many) had great times and met great people and have very fond memories. Maybe it's more tempting or that's the kind of experience you seem to think might drive people back. But it's certainly not people who were in my shoes.

It's because: She can only speak publicly when she's had time to write down and revise a million times exactly what she wants to say. That doesn't mean she reads it very well or like she isn't reading it, but she has to be able to read whate ever she speaks publicly. She is the master manipulator with that sick fake southern smile. Because the only ones left in TWI (besides those stuck for various reasons) are the ones who are already so pliable to the whims of TWI that they no longer need manipulation. She operates behind the curtain like the wizard of oz and has all her monkeys carrying out her orders. She's no good at mass manipulation, much better one on one. She would be "found out" if she tried her tricks on a group of people. She's got the money, the lifestyle, the servants and her girl....why say anything and ruin it all?

More like "He comes in to finish & destroy what the initiator started."

Is moneyhands the only one left now?

This is a quote of craiggers from the notes....so, is he saying vee pee pee was wrong and not living biblically?

The Onion - For the important stuff For the REALLY important stuff Because I have it A great gazette and perfect for grumpy days BTCA - For me & my girl :)-->

Very interesting Signals. I haven't had time to read all of the #6 link, but this really stood out to me as being all too familiar because of my experience and observations of the wc in TWI: Ten Ingredients in the Situationist’s Recipe for Behavioral Transformations. Among the influence principles to be extracted from Milgram’s paradigm for getting ordinary people to do things they originally believe they would not are the following ten: a) Presenting an acceptable justification, or rationale, for engaging in the undesirable action, such as wanting to help people improve their memory by judicious use of punishment strategies. In experiments it is known as the “cover story” because it is a cover-up for the procedures that follow which might not make sense on their own. The real world equivalent is known as an “ideology,” such as “national security,” that often provides the nice big lie for instituting a host of bad, illegal, immoral policies. b) Arranging some form of contractual obligation, verbal or written, to enact the behavior. such as the loyalty oath, the salt covenant of wc, loyalty to the group that taught you the word c) Giving participants meaningful roles to play (teacher, student) that carry with them previously learned positive values and response scripts. d) Presenting basic rules to be followed, that seem to make sense prior to their actual use, but then can be arbitrarily used to justify mindless compliance. “Failure to respond must be treated as an error,” was a Milgram rule for shocking omissions the same as false commissions. But then what happens when the learner complains of a heart condition, wants to quit and later screams out followed by a thud and silence? The learner’s inability to respond to the teacher’s testing because of death or being unconscious must be continually shocked since omission equals commission. It does not make sense at all since how could the teacher be helping improve the memory of the learner who is incapacitated or dead? But all too many participants stopped engaging in such primitive, obvious critical thinking exercises as their stress mounted. e) Altering the semantics of the act and action, from hurting victims to helping learners by punishing them. I yell because I care….confronting the world with the word….Iron sharpeneth iron….keeping the household clean f) Creating opportunities for diffusion of responsibility for negative outcomes; others will be responsible, or it won’t be evident that the actor will be held liable. You weren’t believing God big enough…..I’m being attacked because I’m standing in the gap for you….revelation changes…. g) Starting the path toward the ultimate evil act with a small, insignificant first step (only 15 volts). h) Increasing each level of aggression in gradual steps, that do not seem like noticeable differences (only 30 volts). i) Gradually changing the nature of the Influence Authority from “Just” to “Unjust,” from reasonable and rational to unreasonable and irrational. j) Making the "exit costs" high, and the process of exiting difficult by not permitting usual forms of verbal dissent to qualify as behavioral disobedience. Such procedures are utilized across varied influence situations where those in authority want others to do their bidding, but know that few would engage in the "end game" final solution without first being properly prepared psychologically to do the “unthinkable."

Trefor, I have often thought the same thing you do about craig...."methinks he doth protest too much!" ;)--> If I remember correctly, others have also presented this theory. Regarding his sanity....dunno, I definitely think the man is delusional. Didn't he start bragging about all the women he raped during depositions?? That's NOT normal for someone who's being sued, imo.

AMEN, Bramble! Kids were a liability and just got in the way. One BC couple here actually planned their pregnancy around TWI's class schedule so that she wouldn't be due during one of the times they normally show WAP. --> As for full time WC, the first ones to get dropped or taken off TWI salary were conveniently enough, those with lots of kids who still lived at home. Groucho, I know exactly what you mean. I did the same things. Looking back I thought I was really helping people when really I was doing what James 2:16 says not to do: Now I have the time and energy and desire to help people because, as Bramble said, I no longer have the stress of rushing from meeting to meeting and trying to get all the "study" time in as well as the other time-consuming things TWI had us doing. One of my favorite things to do is to pay for the next few cars behind me at the toll booth. It's anonymous and just may be the only nice thing that happens to someone that day. I also love to help my neighbors and co-workers because they really appreciate it, it's something that they need help with and I have no ulterior motive for helping. I, too, believe I am doing more good today than I ever did with TWI.

I believe you had to give over $250 at one time to get anything in writing from TWI that you gave them money. We would get a letter once a quarter stating the dates and amounts we gave. Even if you didn't have the letter/receipt from them, you could use your cancelled checks to document how much you gave. Giving cash would be a different story, though. But these days giving cash isn't a problem because you aren't really allowed to. It's an insult to give cash and make the HFC use his hard earned money to go get a money order for YOUR abs. Besides that, they can't trace who gave it for the blue forms which is funny since they SUPPOSEDLY don't keep up with who gives how much. -->

Hee hee indeed, Bramble! We aren't afraid of them anymore, so threats don't work and twisting scripture to instill fear doesn't work.....and our lives are so much better since leaving that they could never entice us to come back so all they can do is attack and call us names. Hmmmm......sounds like a teaching from craiggers when the pharisees were arguing with Jesus and they didn't have a leg to stand on, so they started calling him names. They must be following craiggers teachings more closely than I thought.....

He was also very involved with the Baptist Student Union in college and may have had a leadership position there. I can't remember for sure.-

There are many, MANY more stories like this LLP. They are ALL TRUE! TWI does not go to the authorities, they move the offender, cover for the offender or blame the victim. THIS is the kind of "christian" organization you want to associate with? They must treat you really special because of your money. Is your soul worth the price you're paying just to have your ego stroked?

Actually, it's classic "projection". Projecting his problems/issues onto us. He's the one who's bitter and angry that TWI has been exposed and is bitter about not having as many people to manipulate and control. He sees no reason why TWI should apologize or make amends for the wrong they've done and the lives they've destroyed so the fact that we can and do post about it here makes him that much bitter.

What's done is done. Much as I hate to even think about how much money I gave that rotten outfit, I can't do anything about it now. I laugh thinking about them having to answer for their deeds before the almighty God they claim to represent and I would love to see them get theirs in my lifetime, but all I can do about it is continue to warn others and try to help those who are trying to get out from under their oppressive thumb.

I'm not bitter. I just want to be able to save others from the jaws of TWI. Someone obviously doesn't know what bitterness truly is, or is truly bitter about people not forgiving THEM for something. Nervecurve, ask for forgiveness from the people you've harmed, you'll probably get it and then your perceptions of bitterness will dissolve.

nerdcurve will think I'm being infantile, but I call him vee pee pee.

I just thought about this last night. They do hold the advanced class at hq now and everyone has to stay in hotels nearby. Many have to rent cars to drive back and forth to hq and I don't think all 3 meals are included in the price for the class (which did not go down when they moved the class from Indiana where you got to stay on campus). Granted, there aren't that many people taking the advanced class, but it is a little bit of revenue that comes into the area.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, DONNER!!!

((((Johnny Lingo)))) (((Mrs. Lingo)))) ((((Keanu)))) Growing up s*cks! Especially with all the heartbreak and rejection and embarrassment that you have to go through sometimes. I lost my boyfriend that I was head over heels in love with to my best friend in high school. I hated both of them and took it out on my parents vehemently. I remember Daddy trying to reason with me and telling me how much I hurt my mom. I was glad. I wanted her to hurt. I wanted someone to hurt as bad as I was. This went on for months. I distinctly remember my mom telling me that the house just wasn't big enough for the two of us and that one of us was going to have to go. Since she was sleeping with the guy paying the bills I knew who that would be. It still took a while for me to get out of the funk although I did start minding my mouth better. ;)--> And then there was the time I told Daddy I was too old to get a spanking..... I do not advise this type of insubordination. You are NOT too old to get a spanking. Now....my parents and I are closer than I ever imagined. They have gotten so much smarter since I moved out of the house. I rely on them, their advice and their love and support so much. Facing all this crap with TWI and my divorce would have been unbearable if it hadn't been for my parents. You did what you had to do and it was the right thing. YOU know what communicates and how to diffuse the situation with YOUR son. Someone else's ways probably wouldn't have worked in the situation. I read almost all of your posts and I know what a big heart you have for your family and I'm sure Keanu does too. You've just added one more line on his list of reasons why he respects and loves you so much, even if he doesn't yet realize it. ;)--> p.s. if you or Keanu want to know more stupid stuff I did growing up that might help you feel better, I'll be happy to PT them to you. :D-->