Belle

Worst case scenario? I lose my job and can't pay my mortgage.....I can sell my house and in today's market I'll be almost $70,000 richer, surely I could do something with that to survive. If I was renting, I would really be up a creek and begging other TWIts to let me move in with them, but since TWIts don't really help each other, they would tell me to "believe God" to help me with my situation and check with my relatives that I had insulted and isolated myself from to see if they could help.

Does this mean the purpose of posting your opinion was that you feel a duty to warn us?

So now we're killing people? WD, your logic is seriously flawed. You say that I'm trying to subtly manipulate you when all I did was ask a question? I think it's because you don't want to answer. It's really very straight forward and requires only a simple answer. For your convenience here is the other question I'd like to hear your opinion on: What about Hanzel and Gretel? What about Sleeping Beauty, Snow White, Cinderella, fables and other fairy tales? Are they all devilish and contributions to the dumbing down of society and increasing Satan's power?

they have imitation butter in liquid form by the vanilla, maple and other flavorings. I wonder if you could add that to root beer and have butter beer??? Hmmmmmm, I have some imitation butter at home. Maybe i'll pick up some root beer after work and try a little experiment...

I find I spend more time thanking God for things than asking or demanding things from him since leaving TWI. I also find that there's a lot more to thank Him for since leaving. :)-->

John we bought a house three years ago: 3/2, 1,600 sq. ft. in a nice middle class neighborhood - $134,000. I refinanced last year after the divorce and today, three years later, houses SMALLER than mine on the same street are selling for OVER $210,000. My mortgage payment? $850 Typical rental prices in my neighborhood? $1,200 BTW, my credit score is 790, so I must be doing SOMETHING right. Oh, I know......I listened to MY DADDY and not BOB MONEYHANDS. :D-->

Wouldn't it be nice to visit your family for the week-end whenever you want? Wouldn't it be nice to have long phone conversations with your friends? Wouldn't it be nice to go somewhere/anywhere by yourself? Wouldn't it be nice to change jobs whenever you want to? Wouldn't it be nice to know that you're going to have enough money to live on when you retire? Wouldn't it be nice to know that you will someday be able to retire? Wouldn't it be nice to move wherever you want to? instead of having to move someplace near "fellowship"? Wouldn't it be nice to drive a car that doesn't require thousands of dollars each year to keep running? Wouldn't it be nice to make your own decisions about your own life? Wouldn't it be nice to feel confident that YOU know what's best for YOU and YOUR family instead of having to "run by" leadership every little decision? Wouldn't it be nice to just go to a meeting sometime without having to scout for someplace free; spend hours cleaning it; hours tearing it down again; hours listening to boring teachings? Wouldn't it be nice to read, study, watch something new? Anything without worrying about whether or not it's in violation of the legalism of TWI?

Thanks for the laughs, y'all! Steve! I love that!!

Jim & Learning, ROFLMAO!!! :D--> :D--> :D-->

Bramble, I'm with ya! I still haven't picked it up, but I'm dying to read it and I'm so tempted to check out the spoilers thread, but I'm going to wait......I'm just afraid by then the other HP enthusiasts will have moved on....

Ron and Shellon, I think it's absolutely wonderful that you two spend so much time with your children and that you obviously talk about what both of you are reading and take an active interest in what your children are interested in. I'm not surprised given what great parents you are. I tried to find a couple of kids to go to the HP movies with so I didn't have to go alone. If I had had the opportunity to dress up and hang out at the bookstore for the book debuts, I would have done that too. :D--> I remember reading all the Hardy Boy series because my Daddy had the whole collection from when he was a boy and when I would read one I got one on one time with him to discuss it. He also remembered very well all the books, poems and stories he read in school. I think those discussions were the primary reason I loved literature and reading so much. It was wonderful sharing time and attention from Daddy. :)-->

WD, you STILL haven't answered Rascal and my questions. Why? Garth does have it correct. I did not in any way insinuate or otherwise discount your right to post your opinion. I merely wonder WHY and what you hoped to achieve by doing so. Answering my question would actually require that you post more on your opinion, not less. :)--> AND, once again, just because you use the word "I" in voicing your opinion, you ARE saying that those who disagree with you are apathetic, non-vigilant people responsible for promoting the dumbing down of America. OM, probably one of the best interviews I ever read was in Playboy. They interviewed Stephen Hawking about his development of the Big Bang Theory and it was fascinating. I even gave a copy to my Astronomy professor. (I wonder if that had something to do with the A I got in that class.......) ;)--> OR, maybe it was just another contribution to the dumbing down of America.....

Now, Rascal, no need to start yet another thread. :)--> I'll help you with the scriptures used to promote and justify these things. Just let me finish this one last report.

Dove, You don't have to mention names to call us stupid and accuse us of being responsible for the "dumbing down of America". Since Raf said it so eloquently and clearly I'll just refer to his post: You also haven't answered Rascal and my questions about the fairy tales and stories that you most likely grew up with. Where do YOU draw the line?

You also called us participants in the "dumbing down of America" and likened us to promoting stories men and women who molest children. That's personal and it's insulting. You don't like the books, which is fine, but how much do you really know about the books? What is your source? There are actually some very good lessons in the books. As Rascal asked earlier, do you consider Hanzel and Gretle, Rapunzel and the evil enchantress, Sleeping Beauty, Snow White and the like devilish and evil? There's a tale about a fisherman who was granted numerous wishes by an enchanted prince. With each wish demanded by the man’s wife, they were given greater things, until the woman demanded too high a price and then they were restored back to their leaky home because she was never satisfied. Each story, as I see it, has a moral, sometimes cleverly hidden, at other times obvious. Some are simplistic: that greed leads to ruin, good faith must not be abused, and beauty is only skin deep. Others are more profound. These stories can develop a strong sense of right and wrong, respect for courage and ingenuity, and a realization that all evil deeds lead to destruction. They also stimulate the imagination and encourage kids to read who otherwise would have no interest in reading and developing their skills and intelligence. Because most families as a whole enjoy the books they encourage "togetherness" and draw parents and children closer together. Is that such a bad thing? Dumbledore in The Chamber of Secrets. Not bad advice for a generation who is being brought up under peer pressure, is it? from a Christians For Harry Potter website

I know this one all too well, Jim. My ex would quote it to me every time I disagreed with something TWI taught or some other stupid legalistic rule thrust upon us.

So that was a concern that far back, eh? Gawd I wish the internet had been as well developed as it is now when I was getting involved! Thank goodness we'll be able to save others, hopefully, from the same kool-aid concerns! Chas, you're right. It seems like any time someone waxes nostalgic or recalls fond memories and experiences it's usually because of a joe believer and not a teaching or leader.

Thelema, knowwutursayin. Gotcha. ;)--> Def, that's a cool story. Thanks for sharing. So if you're gonna visit an off-shoot, sounds like you found a good one. :D-->

They use 1 Cor 6 to discourage settling things in a court of law. The All*ns were spoken very ill of for taking their "problem" to court instead of getting it taken care of "in the household". Believers just aren't supposed to sue believers. It says so right there in the Bible. --> I do know that after the lawsuits they had to change the way they were assigning "household duties" outside of the regular work-week because people were working 60+ hours a week doing their "regular" jobs and their "household" duties. Not sure how they changed it up and I'm sure it probably wasn't a whole lot better, but at least somewhat. They also increased the pay scale, but again, I don't know by how much. I believe this, too, was as a result of the lawsuits. This is probably why they began the pathetic little joke of a retirement fund also. Someone from HQ staff would be better able to answer those questions, though. I would LOVE to see them go union. Imgaine all the benefits and better treatment they would get. Maybe we should send information on starting a union to some staffers......naw, they are so blinded they would never even consider such a thing.

We have been called unto liberty, to freedom. JC came to fulfill the law and call us to liberty. We have the choice. We can either utilize that freedom to succeed according to the standards of the word or we can use that freedom to go the way of the world and that’s an occasion to the flesh. It opens us up to the ability to serve one another, to be a “doulos”. (An omission here), you cannot love your neighbor without first loving God with all your heart, should, mind and strength. It’s implied; it’s assumed that it’s already being done. It’s emphasizing more abundantly how we practically manifest the love of and for God in the renewed mind in manifestation. We bring it into manifestation. In Galatians, JC as the red thread is the believer’s righteousness and righteousness is the ability to be right and to do right. Notice how this has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with debt? Notice, too, how TWI keeps it from having anything to do with actually loving your neighbor or actually DOING anything to help your neighbor? They oh, so conveniently never get to actually putting forth a finger to help ANYONE. Heck, they dont' even take care of their own much less anyone outside TWI who might really need it.

Krys, I believe it's part of his job description as "security" for the TWIts.

Just have a snowcone and it'll all get better. :)--> Tom's running a special on them, I think.

This is what SOME of the leadership will tell you, others still say it's none of your d@m# business. At least up till a year ago. They were also careful to note those people asking questions about lcm, donna and particularly topics discussed on GSpot. Heaven protect the innocent TWIt who just coincidentally asks questions on the same topics we're discussing here!

Reminds me of that old saying, "That which doesn't kill you makes you stronger." :D--> Sometimes I wished to be killed, but have to admit now that I'm glad for the strength and ability to laugh at things. I could have used 4 flights of stairs a day in my college days. :D--> NOT that I wouldn't have complained, but I sure coulda used 'em.

Well, I'm a Survivor fan. Have been ever since the first season and participated in the office pool for the first few seasons before changing jobs. I even bought a Survivor Buff to wear to the gym. :D--> That's about the only reality show I watch. I admit I peeked in on The Amazing Race when Rob and Amber from Survivor were on it, but didn't faithfully watch it. ;)--> I watched Beauty and the Geek this past month or so and thoroughly enjoyed it. A great social experiment as they called it. I'm just glad I knew the answers to all the questions they were asking the girls. :)-->