Belle

Can you have Paw send Alan down there with him?

Sorry, Paw, I dunno. I'm still using my turntable and 8 track player....

Anyone I know worth their salt doesn't use telling people they got revelation from God to promote themselves, they just act on whatever "revelation" they receive. And, true, Bliss, God is supposed to work in us first, but think about how bad TWI got and how if you said God told you something, but leadership disagreed with it, they would tell you God told THEM the opposite or they'd just flat out tell you to do what they wanted you to do. Then they further took control by telling you that even if it was "bad" direction that God would cover because you were "obeying leadership" like you're supposed to do according to Hebrews and Romans.

Bliss, you're probably thinking of Don's kids: Laurie, Kristin and Ralph. Laurie married Matthew Harmon and they have a little boy named Donnie and I think another child. They lived in the house with Mrs. VP W and Don's wife. I imagine they still live there with Wanda. Kristin went into the WC after graduating from college and teaching for a couple of years. I'm not sure where she went after that. Ralph is married and has kids and he's the one in Denver, I believe. Those are the only Wierwille's I know still involved.

Of course, Ham, that also has to be based on the assumption that the Bible IS the God-breathed word and that there are no errors in it in any way, shape or form. It also assumes that the Bible is True and that Adam and Eve were real people. :) Just to give you more to chew on. :D What if it's just a story? What if it was taken from another culture's explanation of the origin of man? You know a lot of OT stories exist in many other religions and cultures with too many similarities for them to not be the same story, just told with that particular religion / political agenda / spiritual message affecting the story? I didn't realize that until after getting out of TWI. It could just be a form of religious or political propaganda to scare people into obeying what the leaders of the day told them God wanted them to do or to not do. *shrug* I dunno, though.... just a thought...

Yeppers! And you'd be amazed at how many posts you can get on a page, too!! :D :P

Thanks, y'all! :D Those are things I think would bother me if'n I were a guy, but part of that comes from watching too many movies and the "privacy" women are afforded in bathrooms. I suppose growing up with a good deal of support and a healthy self-esteem helps in a lot of those situations.

Oak said: So where Mike claims that Wierwille said such-and-such, we can go to PFAL and refute him. Which has been done. Wierwille's works often do not say what Mike says that they say, unless you have a gnostic-like secret knowledge that allows you to understand what it really means. And yet, Mike's detractors refer back to "the bible", a collection of writings put together by a committee of the victors in a centuries-long battle of words and political influence. Are you saying it's like using a rubber noodle to fight against a water gun? :P On another thread Bob said: I think that fits here, too. I'm currently reading a book about why people believe weird things and it's pretty interesting how people have the tendency to believe ANYTHING that makes them feel like they have answers to SOMETHING.

I hope it's a successful and prosperous business for the guy.

Isn't it a sign of a pathological liar that they can't open their mouth without telling one lie? He was telling a story, told the truth, but it was only the truth, so he HAD to throw a lie in there somewhere. :)

I've decided to try out the new "ignore" feature on Mike and Alan and it's really cool. I highly recommend it!! Bob, I'm also anxiously awaiting Raf's comparison report. :)

Hey! How'd you get the site to let you post several posts in a row without appending them all into one post??? I know! You're even more special than I thought you were... :P Velly, velly intellesting information there! I hope someone turns him in. Wouldn't it be great to see TWI entangled in a court battle defending themselves from aiding and abetting charges?

Apparently nothing vee pee said was worth a damn. I wonder why the TWIts continue to trust those who have followed him since they aren't even trying or pretending to keep any of his promises..... :huh: Mat 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Yep, it's really true. I used to hear Laurie Wierwille Harmon talk disparagingly about her relatives who weren't "in" TWI. I dunno. Someone else here may have more light to shed on that question. Give them time. It hasn't been that long. Why do you feel that hope is all but lost?

Hopefull, I'm so sorry. :(

Talked to Mama and Daddy last night. They're really looking forward to meeting everyone! Mama says she'll bring S'Mores supplies for Saturday night, including the coat hangers for roasting the marshmallows. I'll be coming in Friday early evening. Whatever shall I bring? Any suggestions, needs, desires??

outofdafog, I was born and raised in a very small southern town never lived anywhere else and even graduated from college there. As soon as I graduated I wanted to move to a "big city" as far away from home as I could get without being more than a day's drive away. :D Orlando is exactly 12 hours away from home by car.... Although "city folk" laugh that I thought Orlando was a big city and having been to Boston recently, I now understand why they laugh at me. :) Anyway, it was my first time away from home. My first time being where nobody knew me and I didn't know anyone, no friends, no contacts, nuttin'. I learned some really tough lessons about people my first year. It was a really, really bad year and sometimes I look back now and can't believe I made it! I remember Mama saying, "You can always come home." but my pride wouldn't let me. I'm stronger, more "aware" and less naive because of it. I also became really grateful for the lessons my parents taught me growing up and see how those things helped me survive and keep out of trouble (well, out of too much trouble). Your daughter is showing you the Proverb about raising a child up "in the way he should go"... She's falling back on what you taught her and your example to her while she was growing up. She'll be making friends quickly and experiencing whole new things in life. It's an exciting time! She'll be growing right before your very eyes in phenomenal ways. You'll get smarter too!! ;) You'll be surprised at how smart you become. LOL!

http://www.limaohio.com/story.php?IDnum=18210

So, ALL your answers to ALL his questions will be over there?

I don't have any scripture, but let me think on that a bit. It seems to me that "works" would be anything someone does to try to make themselves look better in God's eyes (or to look more "Christian" in general): learning the difference between agapao and phileo, circumcision, witnessing door to door every week-end, getting baptized, taking some "Bible" classes, giving 10% or more of your income when you don't really want to..... The "works" that you do from the goodness of your heart with no ulterior motive, no seeking of reward, recognition or even acknowledgement from anyone - especially not from God - those are "genuine" works and those are the things God smiles upon. Those are the things we do without thinking about it and so those things we don't even realize God is taking note of. Something about being an hungered and not being fed, asking for a coat and being told to "go be warmed" - those are things that we should do out of the goodness of our heart and not because someone told us to or because we feel an obligation to, but because we WANT to, whether we get "credit" for it or not. When we have that attitude - that's when we do get credit for it. I do what I'm moved to do and I don't worry about it if I'm not. God knows what I'm capable of and it may not be as much as someone else OR it may be in a different area or way than someone else's specialty. My aunt bemoaned the fact that she didn't want to offer her home to hurricane victims and she felt terrible about that. I reminded her that she was a VERY private person and that it's perfectly fine for her to not want to give in that way. I then reminded her of how she jumped in and took charge of organizing the material needs that their home office employees from N.O. needed and seeing to it that everyone got everything thing they needed. She had done what she was good at. She jumped to it and never gave it another thought. She hadn't even realized how big a task she had done until I pointed it out to her. It helped relieve her guilt somewhat. We do what we can and what we are moved to do.

A very dear friend of mine (RockandRollGoddess) from another board wrote this regarding another discussion we were having and I think it's pertinent here: Fits ESPECIALLY if we are born spiritual beings as well, no? :) We are part of one body and Ecclesiastes talks about our bodies returning to dust, breath life back into the air and the spirit to God for safe keeping. So......hmmmm......looks like there IS a spiritual side to man, even in the OT and Eccl doesn't mention any conditions on WHO gets that spirit or how. But that's about as far as I've thought about it. <_<

Interesting, men. Thanks! If the body returns to dust, the breath life back into the air and the spirit to God for safe keeping, then considering that, DOES shed a different light on what Thessalonians says, does it not? At least that's what I *think* I'm reading here. If the spirit goes back to God for safe keeping, it's not exactly in a coma-like state, is it? And if not, then it would be awfully sad to think that our loved ones die, God has their spirit which is still alive and vital, and that the spirit of our loved ones don't think twice about those of us left behind..... Does that make sense? I dunno.....

If I may quote Brother Groucho from Oakspear's "The Word of God" thread: Like Clay said, all things are lawful but not necessarily good for us. Jesus summed up the whole law into love God and love your neighbor. There's nothing about spying out our liberty in Christ in those verses. We seem to live our lives according to what WE think God Wants. The Israelis think they're doing what God wants; the people who kill at abortion clinics think they're doing what God wants; the suicide bombers think they're doing what God wants, TWI teaches their own private interpretation of what they think God wants..... How on earth did we get so many differing views of what God wants? Out of the other side of their mouth, what does TWI teach about why man was created? To have fellowship with Him. To have someone to love and to love him back. Makes the law of love seem pretty simple when you think of it that way, doesn't it? I hope so. It makes sense in my brain. I *hope* I'm communicating it well enough.

Just didn't want this to get lost in all the fun we're having today. :ph34r:

Mike *thinks* he has the right to judge and question the fruit in anyones' life, but for someone to question the fruit in his life....well, that's just WRONG! :huh: :blink: In Raf's not so many words: