Belle

You're right Vyctorya, they have no social skills and are extremely uncomfortable in "normal" situations. It's a pity because children shouldn't be raised that way. Welcome, RC! I'm glad to hear that some kids recognize that all is not right with TWI and that they all have a network of communication open with each other. Perhaps once one of them wakes up to the fact that the organization is rotten down to the core, they'll be able to show the others.....OR these bright, optomitic ones could be the ones to bring down TWI. It could happen!

Eve had sex with Satan who came to earth as a beautiful woman. I think craig -- i mean - Adam watched. At any rate, he condoned the behavior.... The teaching is on here somewhere. I'll see if I can find it.

I'm thinking that's not gonna help with the aim any...... :unsure:

Thank y'all so much! It was a wondermous birthday and I've really appreciated and enjoyed all the greetings here. Thank you from the very bottom of my heart. :wub:

Then please provide two examples. There IS a difference and most people on here do the same as you claim to do.

That's when the kids get out of school?

Yep, Oldies - you do do always blame the victim and maintain that TWI has never done any wrong. Do you think we're stupid or have bad memories? Most of us have been around here long enough to see you bend over backwards protecting your precious TWIts. It's sick and one day you are going to have a very rude awakening. "The people" running the program SHOULD HAVE KNOWN where they were sending people and if it was dangerous or not. "The people" running the program SHOULD HAVE KNOWN they had pedophiles in their program. "The people" running the program SHOULD HAVE KNOWN who was not stable enough to go on such an assignment. "The people" running the program SHOULD HAVE KNOWN the shenanigans and abuse going on. "The people" running the program SHOULD HAVE BEEN A LOT MORE INVOLVED, KNOWLEDGEABLE AND LESS ARROGANT. "The people" running the program SHOULD HAVE REALLY BEEN CONCERNED ABOUT THE WELL BEING OF "THEIR PEOPLE". Yah, they're to blame!! They were unprepared, ignorant, lazy, uncaring, unconcerned and generally irresponsible with people's lives. I just don't see how you can continue to justify TWI's actions or lack thereof. Rico and Rosie should be calling you any day now to hire you for the "Spin Control" department.

And so many churches these days have rock bands and services expressely geared toward and for young people. They are teaching more substance than churches once did AND they are FUN places to be....FAR CRY from TWIt-ville. BUT, we're glad about that, aren't we? ;)

YEAH, BROTHER SPEED!!!! Bramble, I gotta agree with the guys. ;) It's a perfect opportunity to stretch the imagination and be a little creative. :P I trick-or-treated till I was thirteen, but we always dressed up and really came up with some good, cheap ideas. One year I wore a slip with "Freud" across the front of it - I was a "Freudian Slip"..... Didn't cost any money! IMO, no excuse for not dressing up in some way shape or fashion - otherwise you're not in the spirit of the holiday and as such, don't deserve the "fruits" of the night. :mellow:

It was still like that when I left in 2004, The Highway. Ang3la C@p1llary was my HFC and she lived with the Moneyhands for years. She wanted to go into the WC training program, but she has some problems with her feet and doesn't walk "normally". Now, she does walk and she gets around great - she is also sharp as a tack, extremely intelligent and has a delightful personality. We got along great till she started getting all legalistic and blaming my ex and I for things that were her fault, but that's a story for another day..... Anyway, this young lady who would be a dream candidate for any corporation had one heck of a time getting accepted into the WC. They allowed her to go WD and she was obviously a pet of Moneyhands, but because of her "handicap" Rico, Bolchok and others at HQ did not want her in the WC. She had to campaign and visit Gunnison a few times for them to "observe" her and even then, they dragged their feet. Moneyhands was so p1ssed about it, but too d@mn wussy to say anything. Even when they didn't give her a decision by the date they promised to, he didn't raise holy hell. So much for saying what you mean and meaning what you say, eh, Rico? ;) You'd think that with low numbers in the WC they'd be falling all over themselves to let her into the program. You'd also think that they would be concerned about "discrimination" lawsuits, too. In fact, perhaps that's why they eventually did let her into the program. :unsure: She's got so much going for her, pity it's being wasted in TWI. :(

Whom I absolutely adore!! Welcome back "normal" Tom Strange. :D Krys, thanks for all the information! You truly are a wonderful wealth of knowledge. I'm so glad you take time to post and enlighten us on here. :)

Second James, I will only be in Marietta for the week-end. It's gonna be a hit and run kind of thing. We will get in early Saturday morning for earthdog trials which usually last all day - then I'll have an early dinner and start again bright and early Sunday morning. Since it's a long drive back to O-town, I'll be hitting the road as soon as I can on Sunday after getting an award and JE title for Vixen, I hope. :D I'll most definitely be in town at the end of November - Not gonna make it home for Turkey Day, I don't think. So PLEASE DO let me know when you're going to be here! I'd love to meet you!

2 Weeks! B)

OOPS! I separated them. :mellow: sowwy!

AMEN, Skyrider! I know of quite a few of the younger folk who have rebelled in their own way and others are just biding their time till they can break free. They'd love for their parents to come with them, but aren't going to stick around just to please them. They go to school - they interract with "normal" kids and they see how "normal" kids live and that's how they want to live too. They also see how lame "the more abundant life" is and how paltry it is in comparison. They hear the fights, they hear the rumors and kids pick up on so much more than adults realize. They think deeper than parents want to give them credit for. I think that younger generation want a better life for themselves than they've seen around them. I don't know many that daydream about living in a trailer or a dorm room for the rest of their lives with no car, no free time, no ability to cook their own meals and have pets and do "normal" things. Can't blame them for that! Good for them!

Okay, maybe the book isn’t as different as I thought. The author uses Ayn Rand, author of “Atlas Shrugged” and the cult following that came from the book. She presented her philosophy, called “Objectivisim” as: 1 – Metaphysics – Objective Reality 2 – Epistemology – Reason 3. Ethics – Self Interest 4. Politics – Capitalism “In other words, reality exists independent of human thought. Reason is the only viable method for understanding reality. Every human should seek personal happiness and exist for his own sake and no one should sacrifice himself for or be sacrificed by others. Capitalism is where the above three fourish the best.” p. 116 - “Why People Believe Weird Things” by Michael Shermer Despite the great individual thinking this seems to promote, people began to see Rand as the end all and be all of philosophy and an inner circle developed to surround and protect her. Her ideas became treated as omniscience and error free. She also had an extremely powerful personality and did not allow people to challenge her. Along with that came the belief that absolute knowledge and final truth are attainable through reason and as such there are, then, “absolutes of right and wrong knowledge and moral and immoral thought and action. For Objectivists, once a principle has been discovered by (the Objectivists’ version of) reason to be true, the discussion is at an end. If you disagree with the principle, then YOUR reasoning is flawed. If your reasoning is flawed, it can be corrected, but if you don’t correct your reasoning (i.e., learn to accept the principle), you are flawed and do not belong in the group. Excommunication is the final solutino for such unreformed heretics.” Sound familiar? Here are the characteristics Shermer uses to classify a cult (I’m not going to put definitions for the most obvious ones, the rest are quotes from the book) Shermer takes religion out of the definition and shows how it could be any group, not just a religious one. Veneration of the leader Inerrancy of the leader Omniscience of the leader: accepting the leaders beliefs and pronouncements on all subjects – important and trivial How many of us were encouraged and expected to treat our children with the exact same rules the martindale’s taught in their class? In our area, people went so far as calling them “sponsies” like Donna did. Persuasive techniques: Methods, from subtle to coercive, used to recruit new followers and reinforce group beliefs. Hidden agendas: The true nature of the group’s beliefs and plans are hidden from or not completely explained to potential recruits and the general public. Isn’t it funny how they never mentioned “speaking in tongues” until you were already committed to coming to a meeting? Seems the more involved you got the more you learned that was shocking and required more of you. I remember thinking when we were out witnessing that we were being awfully dishonest and deceptive in our manner. Deceit: Recruits and followers are not told everything they should know about the leader and the group’s inner circle, and particularly disconcerting flaws or potentially embarrassing events or circumstances are covered up. We know this all too well, don’t we? How much more have they hidden that we still don’t know about? Financial and/or sexual exploitation: Absolute Truth: Belief that the leader and/or the group has discovered final knowledge on any number of subjects. Absolute morality: Belief that the leader and/or the group has developed a system of right and wrong thought and action applicable to members and nonmembers alike. Those who strictly follow the moral code become and remain members; those who do not are dismissed or punished. This was a new one to me, but we did justify “morally” everything we did and laughed at others not “spiritually mature” enough to know better.

Ego - Ego - Ego and "furtherance of the ministry" is the key phrase in these quotes - they only concerned themselves with furtherance of "the Word" as it provided a label, product and slicker hook than the traditional snake oil sales products. How many of you wonder or worry about people forgetting you? Craig certainly paid attention to the ego aspects of vee pee and took it to a whole new level.

MIT, my heart goes out to you! You must be very strong to continue to overcome such obstacles. I truly believe that TWI and the leadership who rape and pillage God's flock will pay dearly. Hopefully you'll have a front row seat for that!

I also hate the older kids without costumes. I only give them one piece of candy. The real trick or treaters get a handfull. Vixen wore her Halloween bandana and Mom dressed as a Black Eyed Pea. :P We had a blast and saw some very creative costumes!

Jim, that's really cool! I didn't know they had watches like that! I imagine that woudl fetch a pretty penny on Antiques Roadshow. ;) That is neat! * skips along now that she's learned something new today *

LOVE IT, Zshot!! :P

Dang, Tom, You are HOT!!!! Love the avatar! Where'd you get a picture of such a hot dude for your avatar?

Hey Nato! You were in Orlando just as I was getting involved. In fact, I believe I took PFAL at the house where you were staying. You're an incredible artist, right? ;) TWI always said that they had the corner market on the Truth and that churches weren't teaching anything near what TWI was teaching, much less with the accuracy. THEN they told us there was nothing better out there. After so much abuse, control and micro-managing of one's life and, as Bramble said, so much conflicting teaching vs. doctrine vs. practice your head would feel like it was spinning worse than that kid in The Exorcist. Yelling and spitting at people is showing them love? Putting people on probation and marking & avoiding people is the "godly" thing to do? Giving minimum 15% of your income to TWI was what the spiritually mature do - the really top notch give 18% or everything left after paying bills. Hmmmmm.....doctrine or practice running people off? It seems as though the doctrine lead to the practices that ran people off. But that's just my opinion. We always took their word that "there's nothing better out there" - The churches mentioned here and quite a few in my area are proof that there is A LOT that's A LOT BETTER out there. If people would only look and not go on preconceived notions or stop looking if the first couple of churches DON'T seem to be better....in my opinion there's nothing WORSE out there, especially since Moonies aren't selling flowers in the local airport anymore. :D

I'm reading "Why People Believe Wierd Things" by the guy who founded Skeptic Magazine and the website (YES - I'm THAT slow of a reader! :blink: ) Anyway - I keep meaning to post his definition of a cult but once again, left my book at home. I'll try to post it tonight before the goblins come out. It's a different look at the definition and structure of one. I totally agree with the cognitive dissonance that WW brought up. I've actually talked about said contradictions in our lives with him and, amazing as it sounds, he didn't see it when we talked about it, but mentioned it off the cuff so many times - like when we were shopping for a car. He'd say, "Man, it sure would be nice to be able to buy a car that isn't ten years old!" But we're living the "more abundant life" ya know? :huh:

Actually, the HFC's we had here went into the WC program to be trained as TWIG LEADERS. That's it. Trained to be able to run a twig where-ever they chose to be - NOT where TWI told them to be. It wasn't until they were threatened with being dropped for not wanting to move that they learned how badly TWI twisted what they promoted. IMO, WhiteDove, you can not compare TWI to a secular organization because secular businesses like Wal-Mart don't hold God's blessings over your head or threaten you with Satan's absues. as well as many other things, but bottom line is - TWI is not a secular organization and does not play by those rules - well, they don't play by any rules, but that's a whole nother story. ;) The wife was a stay at home wife and the husband ran his own business - sold it b/c the wc were going to go full time and then got a rude awakening after coming back from the ROA that year. Dropped from WC, no business, no job, no savings...... nuttin'. It was so bad the wife went to work at the limb for Moneyhands and instead of paying her minimum wage - they paid her on a "need basis" which amounted to about $2.00/hour. During craig's reign, it was all too obvious that signing up for wc training meant turning your lives over - lock stock & barrel - to TWI and their whims. Everyone knew that the WC were being jerked around, abused and over-worked. They also knew what @$$h*les they made out of everyone who went through the program - that's why it's such a small group, imo. I don't know when you were in, WhiteDove, but it must have been during some glory days or at the same time and location as Oldiesman. Chas, to me there's nothing worse than getting ratted out by your own spouse or family EXCEPT getting ratted out by your own girlfriend.