Belle

Jon Touchstone - That's a name from the past! I see it's your birthday. Hope it's a good one!!

No clue, Raf. It doesn't even bring a tune to mind or sound familiar..... :huh:

Love 'em! You don't tug on Superman's cape You don't spit into the wind You don't pull the mask off the old Lone Ranger And you don't mess around with Jim Sorry..... That's not related....but it IS a good song!

Those are some lessons I coulda done with learnin'!!

HILL-HAIR-EEE-USSSS!!!

Thanks, Chef! I will, I'm sure. Just not much time today. <_< You can put down some thoughts, too, ya know? ;)

It's Max!! Where'd you find him, Moony? I hope he doesn't think I'm a traitor for switching to dogs. :unsure:

I'll drink to that!! I'm with you, Chef! Or was it something like this?

Welcome, True Soul! Glad to have you here! I'll offer you a danish or two and Raf will be along with the coffee shortly, I'm sure. I left TWI just over a year ago and my ex husband left me because of our conflicts over TWI doctrine and practice. I recognized your question as one of the first things I wanted to tackle once I was free to do so. I hope you don't mind me giving it a thread all its own, but I feel there may be some people who have valuable input but will not see it on the other thread. Once I began questioning the doctrine and the practices of TWI that seemed utterly contradictory to what I had always felt was a "Christian" way of life and I realized how many lies, abuses and other terrible things TWI had covered and hidden from us....Once I realized these things I also realized how far from my true self I had become. Changing to the Stepford Believer was a slow process and changing back to my "true self", surprisingly wasn't as slow a process for me. Two things that really helped me were the books, "The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse" and Steve Hassan's "Releasing the Bonds: Enabling People to Think for Themselves" - the BITE model and some of the quotes from JKB came from Steve Hassan's book. I also started going to one on one talk therapy sessions with someone who was knowledgeable about different beliefs, religions and spirituality-related things. He wasn't so much up on "cults" as he was able to focus on the effects of such groups. I did give him Steve Hassan's book at our first session and that helped him a lot with where I was coming from. Things I did that helped me were: - talking to my former TWI girlfriends - visiting my family - seeing my parents and talking in depth with my mama - doing things I wanted to, but couldn't do because of TWI - buying things that would have been verbotten in TWI (a cross necklace, an angel pin, a mood ring) - NOT reading my Bible for a while - hosting little get together parties at my house with people who had never even heard of TWI - making new friends - NOT making the bed, cleaning the dishes and keeping the house white-glove spotless Part of me had been very unhappy and depressed for years, so it was a huge relief to me when I was finally free from TWI and an even greater relief, sadly, when my ex moved out. I felt like ten tons of pressure had been lifted off my chest immediately. I think the release from those two things alone was a huge step toward my "snap" back. :) Enjoy the sweets and I look forward to reading more of you. :P

Chef, I'm surprised you didn't know that! ;) Now we know fer shur you ain't no southerner! :P Lex, WELCOME TO THE CAFE!!! Raf will be along with some coffee shortly, but may I offer you a danish? That poor trucker! We were good at coercing people into doing things they didn't want to do, weren't we?

To this day my ex refuses to believe that vee pee died of cancer and our favorite Moneyhand couple knows this and will not tell him the truth. He sure as heck won't believe it from me, but then again, what would I know? I'm just a stupid girl.

Lifted, generally these stories come out in the course of a thread or several. Being involved with the site you get bits and pieces of a person's eperiences as different threads and conversations bring out certain emotions, memories and experiences. It's not a "My Story" kind of thing although, there are some people who have posted their story in the "My Story" section of the site. John Juedes has several accounts posted on his site and, I think, Pat Roberge has some on his site as well. I suppose you could use the search function to try to find some of them. I'd post links, but I don't have them.

I learned from the best! WN, glad to hear that about the Coulter kids. I don't know any of 'em but haven't much respect for their daddy-o...

I love these! We have quite a few up around the cube farm here. :D

Roy, I can not imagine a God who is supposed to be all loving, all caring, all knowing and everywhere present NOT allowing our beloved pets to be in Heaven with us. He also says no tear shall dim the eye, correct? If Duchess, Doobie and Vixen aren't there in Heaven with me then there will be lots of tears. :wub: If my cats Max, Mouse, Snowball and Tiger aren't there either, there will be even more tears. So there must be pets in Heaven!

Thanks for the update, JL! I'm sure she's tickled to have another woman to talk to, especially about those "womanly" things like mini vacations to the tropics and their inner children playing with fire. My mama tried to talk to me about such things, but seeing as how I'm only in my 30's, I may have well as been from Mars, too. With the support of you and the Mrs. she will be feeling better quicker than those with only professional help. How wonderful I think you two are! My psychiatrist and therapist are wonderful, but it's my friends who really help me adjust and put into practice what I learn with the first two. :) Please do let us know as she continues to get better!

Holy Carp, Batman! Can't trust anyone these days, can you? Thanks, Paw!!

Given that there are a lot of quotes, I expected that some people would comment on the one(s) that resonated or struck a chord with them…Here is an example of what I would have liked to have happened: That’s a funny way to put it, but it’s so true. Remember how we were real good at laughing at the Catholic religion. I know more Catholic “jokes” than I could have imagined thanks to TWI. I was raised Southern Baptist and I remember hearing jokes about us thinking we were the only ones in Heaven – which I don’t ever remember being taught, but apparently it seems we did think that way and it was funny to everyone else. Funny how we can justify laughing at others because of what they believe…it’s even funnier when we come around to seeing the validity in some of the things they believe. We can really learn from each other when we quit laughing at and attacking one another’s beliefs. Things that we took so seriously in TWI are funny to me now..... Happy Ho Ho, "Bless & Treat", "Blessed Eggs", Resurrection Sunday (instead of Easter).... That’s just funny. I don’t care she is or what her “agenda” is, it’s a funny statement….unless you’re so defensive you can’t see the humor in it and laugh at yourself every once in a while. So how DID Noah get penguins, polar bears, kangaroos and Tasmanian devils into the ark? Interesting question, no? I think Elbert is onto something there. Some people call it karma….I think that’s what they mean by karma anyway… I mean, aren’t the consequences of our decisions what bites us in the a$$ so many times? We’re our own worst enemy at times. (Please note I did not say ALL THE TIME in either sentence.) BTW: I only know one Elbert and he was quite a trip! I have no idea who this Elbert is, though. It’s an odd name; I wonder where it comes from. Believe what? Most religions consider others who don’t believe exactly as they do are flawed, but because they AT LEAST believe in God, they are partially okay, but God forbid someone be atheist, agnostic or – gasp – wiccan! How does not believing in God or believing the Bible is the “inerrant God breathed word” make someone an animal? This seems to be where I have arrived in my thinking. I see no profit in dissecting scriptures; spending hours upon hours memorizing or reading scriptures; throwing around “chapter & verse” for every situation; concentrating on so much minutia that life becomes serious, burdensome and dictated by “what does the word say?”. It seems as though an all loving God would make it pretty easy to understand and know what His will is and how we should live. Jesus seems to have summed it up nicely into just two commandments….so why do we have to make it so much more complicated by arguing about whether someone should be baptized to be saved….and should that baptism be by “fire” or by “water” – theoretically or literally…..what exactly ordination is…whether we should tithe and/or how much we should give and where we should give it...etc… There. That’s just a paltry amount of thoughts and things that came to mind when I read those quotes. THOSE are the kinds of things I preferred to discuss. They don’t require rebuttal quotes that aren’t really relevant when one considers the contents of the quotes, some additional comments, observations and discussions about the original quotes would be nice, but not if the comments are going to be along the same vein of thought as the first response to them.

LiftedUp Posted: Ya know, Lifted. You foot-U-ME-D the purpose of my post was when I clearly stated it before I even posted the quotes: Then I further clarified my reason for posting the quotes after seeing how you had derailed what I had HOPED the discussion would have been about; I NEVER, NEVER, NEVER said that I BELIEVED all of them. NOR did I EVER mention anything about WHO said those things. I DON’T give a rip about who said them. I was more concerned about WHAT was said. It is only proper to give credit to the speaker, that is why their names are included. He11, I don’t even know who half the people are!Perhaps I should have posted this in the doctrinal section to have gotten the discussion I was hoping for, but so few people wander down there AND I do not want a discussion using “Chapter & Verse” – frankly – it does not help me when I the “pondering” is about the integrity of the Bible to begin with. I thought about posting in the “About the Way” section, but it wasn’t TWI – Related in any way – except maybe that TWI could be partially responsible for my musings ….. AND the fact that you so aptly illustrated the holier-than-thou-I-don’t-give-a-S H I T-about your-NEEDS/QUESTIONS/CONCERNS-I’m-just-going-to-throw-MY-agenda-down-your-throat attitude we learned in TWI. We got pretty darn good at reading between the lines and picking up on the double meanings of every thing that was said. Maybe you were one of the people who was really good at talking like that and so project that communication style onto everything you read. I wasn’t and I’m still not. I prefer to plainly and clearly communicate with no double entendres or “ya know what I mean” (wink, wink) messages behind what I say. Maybe you just had a knee-jerk reaction to the quotes, in which case I would have preferred some comments about the contents of the quotes themselves and not merely some rebuttal quotes. Then put me in George’s camp, because I’m pretty upset about the direction this thread has taken (primarily thanks to your initial post, Lifted) and if that’s the “Christian” way - to just spew quotes back to someone who has what I consider to be valid concerns….and so wonderfully established by those who merely congratulated and thanked you for your “so there!” response…..then I’ll hang with the curmudgeon’s like George any day. At least he’s up for some dialog. Galen, thank you for clarifying that for me about the diests. I suppose I should read up some more on them. ;)

Picked especially for you, my friend! During a full moon week nonetheless. ;)

A Christmas Story is a MUST SEE every year in my house!! I have since heard of people under extreme duress speaking in strange tongues. I became conscious that a steady torrent of obscenities and swearing of all kinds was pouring out of me as I screamed. And I love all the animation ones: Rudolph The Red Nosed Reindeer How the Grinch Stole Christmas Frosty the Snowman Emmet Otter's Jug Band Christmas Santa Claus is Coming to Town Charlie Brown Christmas and Holiday Inn with Bing Crosby and Fred Astaire I'll Be Seeing You with Ginger Rogers and, of course, An All Dogs Christmas ;)

LOVED IT!!! I'd put up with the lines and the crowds to see it again. There were some special effects that I missed seeing from the other movies, but it was still a most excellent movie and if we hadn't known that the original Dumbledore wasn't in the movie, I don't think I would have noticed the difference. Is it just me, or did anyone else initially think that Madonna was playing Rita Skeeter? :o

Lima News Teen finds fulfillment through volunteerism By PAM DUNNO Lima News correspondent 11/21/2005 sparrowhawk@bright.net excerpt C0ulter, who has not yet chosen a college to attend, does volunteer work at The Way International where she takes fellowship courses. Her efforts at the church include helping with chores that revolve around Sunday services such as being an usher or parking attendant. Sometimes she staffs the cash regis-ter at the church’s gift shop. “I’ve always been taught the most important thing is to love God and do his work,” Coulter said. “I’ve learned so much from all the teaching and from everyone involved that I want to give back in some way so I volunteer.” Well, it's nice to see that she is one of the few TWIts who actually gives in ways outside the walls of TWI. Coulter also frees her spirit through athletics, running in particular. I'm sure TWI LOVED seeing that quote.... :D Coulter has been on the school’s track team for six years and its cross-country team for five. Coulter is a member of the National Honor Society with a 4.0 grade-point average, the German Club as secretary and Pep Club. She is the secretary for her class and keeps basketball statistics. She also plays the piano and is the business manager for the yearbook, “The Memoir.” The teen is the daughter of Joe and Linda C0ulter. She has a sister and a brother, Mary Kay and Paul.

Darken the city, night is a wire Steam in the subway, earth is a afire

OM you sound like a broken record: Precisely because YOU never experienced this and because YOU weren't involved during the past ten years AND because you are without compassion and understanding of victims and unable to admit any serious abuse by TWI does NOT MEAN that it didn't happen. I can tell you beyond the shadow of a doubt that AT LEAST 50% of the people in my area felt the way that Penguin describes. I know - I talked to many of them. They contacted me after I left to tell me that they admired my ability to stand up for myself and to "do something about it" even though they couldn't. They're trapped. I KNOW HOW THAT IS - AND IT'S ALL TOO REAL!! I lived it for over five years. Don't paint if you don't want to but it doesn't change the fact that Penguin is correct. In my best Forrest Gump voice.... "And that's all I've got to say about that."