Belle

Alan Alda Same Time Next Year Ellen Burstyn

I'm sure that by now a few more people have realized that it is just a waste of time to argue with some people and that we are better off when they are ignored. Some people are going to think and believe what they want to believe no matter what. Also, just for the record - I believe that the situation took place - I trust HCW and I'm confident that he posts only those things he's sure of and he notes when he is posting opinion or speculation. Please note that OM has again put his own spin on what people actually said. Do I believe the BOT admitted to attempting murder in this meeting and that HCW among others hear it? Yes. Whether they really literally attempted murder or not it not the issue, imo. Whether I believe that they did or not is not the issue - to my little pea brain, the issue is THEY ADMITTED TO ATTEMPTING MURDER. I repeat that I know squat about CG except what I've learned of him over the past five years. I have little to no resepct for the man and do question his motives and honest, HOWEVER, that is irrelevant to me at this point in time - what's relevant to me is that he was the catalyst for exposing the horrible things that were ACTUALLY going on. If some of it was lies or exaggerated, so be it. We've seen enough here to know that the place is rotten, evil and utterly corrupt and needs no exaggeration. Whether CG told the truth or not doesn't matter to me - I'm just glad someone did something to expose TWI for what it is and think that many would have continued to be abused, debased, oppressed and isolated from family if it hadn't been for his outrageous behavior and tactics to do the things he did. How someone would get that I believed that CG or the BOT were telling the truth from that, I have no idea....well, I do but I think it's just wishful thinking.

Well, I've been relegated to the basement where many people don't visit very often. :o Oh well.... :) I sincerely appreciate the dialog, discussions and thoughts you've all taken the time to write down. I can see why these kinds of questions and dialog can be very uncomfortable and unwelcome by those who do still hold to the Bible and the men who wrote it as infallible and writing according to revelation. I've got some things I'd like to write, but I'm in the middle of month end reporting now. Hopefully I'll be able to get back to the thread this week-end. Thank you all so much!!

WORMS EITHER!!!!

I hope it's a wonderful birthday!!

Though I've never been to LV, I can relate since I live so close to the Attraction Park Mecca of the World it seems.... 1. Look at all the pretty lights on the buildings! Millions of colors! Don't waste your time looking at traffic lights; they only come in 3 colors. 2. Also, don't waste your time looking at the road. There's much more interesting things elsewhere. It's everyone else's job to look out for you 3. Whatever you do, don't tap that accelerator. Keeping traffic slow is your gift to your hosts. 4. It is imperative that you turn onto the road as soon as possible regardless of who you have to cut off to do so. However, once on the road, there is no real hurry. Take your time. That guy you cut off will be happy to slow down. 5. The "fast lane." Ever wonder why it's called that? Me neither. 6. If you drive a Winnebago, be sure to only drive on single lane highways with extensive no passing zones. If people can pass you and keep traffic flowing, it defeats the whole purpose of driving a Winnebago! 7. Whatever you do, don't look in your mirrors! Traffic might be piling up behind you and you wouldn't want that on your conscience! 8. Be sure to always slow down to a near stop to look at the twisted vehicles and bloody puddles of the innocent locals who have had "encounters" with driving tourists. 9. If you are pulled over, be sure to toss cliches and lame jokes about the mob, prostitution, or the weather to the cop. He's never heard that one before. Trust me. 10 And remember, when you are lost, do not stop to find out where you are. Simply slow to 1/3 of the speed limit and weave in and out of lanes haphazardly. This always gets you where you want to be. 11. Always be talking on a cell phone. Your techno-savvy impresses the locals and they will stare in worshipful awe as you run stop lights and narrowly miss pedestrians. 12. Stop signs don't really mean "stop." They mean "slow down just a tad and if you are feeling generous, perhaps glance to the side to make sure that guy you were supposed to yield to isn't going to hit you." 13. Feel free to stop in the middle of the road to take photos. The locals will be touched at how sentimental you are about their home. 14. Remember, you are on vacation so school speed zones don't apply to you. 15. The bumper sticker on the car you are tailgating says "If it's tourist season, why can't we shoot them?" What a jerk! I wonder what his problem is?

Awwwww, Rascal, it IS a GREAT idea! That's why you and Mama were so excited about it. :) I'm just late to the party. If you could find the name of that book it would be really cool! I've already started collecting quotes to put in my 365 jars for everyone. The Art Director here at work is going to make me a "Warhol"-ish like print of a family picture for me to give to Daddy, too. I'm still thinking of which way I want to do the memory book thing that Socks suggested too. I'm real excited about these things and hope that the family likes them as much as I am excited. :wub:

ROFLMAO!!! I can just hear it too! We've got some American Pie fans here in the office, maybe I'll practice and see if they notice. ;-)

HAPPY BIRTHDAY!! I hope it's as special as you are!

HAPPIEST OF BIRTHDAYS, DARYL!!

"For Sale" 200 gallons bottled water (all unopened) 6 months supply of canned and dehydrated food: Including 10 cases of SPAM (never opened) One large security bunker: Never used Two whole house electric generators. Also never used 500 gallons of gasoline Several flashlights and candles Too many to count but would last a family of four about six months with continuous use And would the person that purchased my 1974 Gremlin, please sell it back to me. It appears that it and all other cars ARE compliant for 2000. Besides I need the car to go put my life savings back in the bank. I would appreciate if you did not inquire as to why I stockpiled all of this stuff. It is rather embarrassing now in retrospect...

Dante and Keith - that's the name of it! "Banned from the Bible" - I didn't get to watch the whole thing so I taped the last part of it. Keith, I'm also interested in those two books as well. If nothing else, they do seem to be very interesting regarding perceptions of the time.

Digitalis, I am a stickler for spelling, grammar and such with my own writing, but I didn't think it was obvious. Thank you for the correction and I apologize. I did partiallyl mis-understood you, but I also didn't look at things taking the facts into consideration that you did. That's why I love this place and am glad that we can have discussions like this. Thank you for taking the time to clarify and expound on what you meant to communicate. I knew that carbon dating at one time had been extremely unreliable, but I guess I had thought that they figured out how to make it more accurate as science progressed. One more monkey wrench in the machine, eh? It is pretty scary to think of people 3,000 years from now saying "well, we found these books all over the US and they ALL say the same thing - it MUST be important knowledge that we've only lost through the years." THAT gives me chills to even think about it! Thank you from the bottom of my heart. :) edited to fix spelling a error

Is it just me or was anyone else thinking "Carol Burnett" while watching Madame Maxime? WW, maybe it's my strange imagination, but I pictured her as being very tall but curvy and graceful as opposed to big as well as stocky like Hagrid. I did NOT picture her looking like Carol Burnett but much more attractive.

I thought that Neville DID give it to Harry. Then Moody accused Harry of stealing from his stash of goodies right before he's discovered as only imitating Moody. :unsure: Has my memory really gotten to be THAT bad?? :o

I understand your point, Digitallis, but I think it's like comparing apples and oranges because these scrolls that were found, particularly the ones from the documentary, are from Jesus's time or very shortly after his death. Some of the ones they referred to were actually written BEFORE the birth of Jesus. That in and of itself, imo, lends quite a bit more "credibility" to those scrolls than, say, our notes and syllabuses. I do agree that it can make your head spin, but these are things I've never thought about, never questioned before. Maybe I'll get tired of feeling like I'm going in circles one day, but for now I'm really enjoying learning and being able to ask questions I would have never been able to ask while in TWI. I don't know if these kinds of questions help others who have left recently or are sitting on the fence, but I hope they do. I know they help me - if for no other reason than being able to "think out loud" about these things and to see other perspectives and thoughts. Thank you very much for taking the time to provide your input. :) I really do appreciate it!

What I'm interested in knowing is HOW they justify adding people to the payroll (and you know VP level leadership don't get the peanuts that the dorm dwelling staff do) - ESPECIALLY when non-membership is at an all time low. I mean, does it really take 3 VP's a President and a staff of HUNDREDS to oversee, what - 3,000 people?? Possibly even less than that!!

Yes, ma'am, I did. :P I really use the terms "Mama" and "Daddy", too. Ask anyone who was at the Weenie Roast. ^_^ You love it, doncha?

George and Sudo, y'all crack me up! Thank you, too, for the wisdom in your posts along with the wit. ;) Sudo, please don't tell on me for posting in the wrong area, but I know many people don't wander down in that direction and the question is really sorta non-doctrinal in nature, isn't it? :unsure: Rascal, I've heard and read things long that vein as well as some other theories that seem to make sense, but I didn't give them much attention while in TWI because I was afraid of even considering something not already endorsed by TWI. Wish I had kept notes on that sort of thing as I came across it. NOW I would be interested in reading more about it. My3Cents, you're right and I didn't really think I had a pre-conceived notion about the scriptures, but I suppose I did. I honestly don't know WHAT I think anymore, but the more I learn about the Bible, how it was put together and the history of other religions/cultures/beliefs, the more I question the integrity, veracity and "divine nature" of it. Heck, I haven't even really determined whether or not I believe that there was any scriptures written down by revelation from God. I suppose I'm really just acquiring information at this point and learning as much as I can - educationally, theologically as well as the opinions of those who have been through the same experiences that I have (TWI). I've not come to any conclusions (I don't think), but then again I may end up being a perpetual student in this area...

These are all GREAT ideas! I'm all for the sentimental gifts, especially given that this is only the second year they've "really" had me back as the Belle they knew and loved over ten years ago. I am thinking I might try to do the memory booklet with a CD of the tunes I mention in the booklet or a memento like Paw mentioned. I'm also keeping my eye out for something that I never thought of that might catch my eye....and thinking, too, what it might be. :) Rascal, that IS a great idea and you and my mom are so much alike! It's really scary, but she has already done two of those - one from her side of the family and one from Daddy's. :P Something I found while putzing around that I *think* I might do for all my relatives in addition to their gift: A nicely decorated jar with a little poem tied to it that says the jar contains 365 things to let them know I'm thinking about them all year long. You can buy these, of course, with cute sayings, Bible verses and/or other things surrounding a particular category. I think for Mama I'll make one that has Bible verses, uplifting sayings and sayings about how special Mamas are along with some incidental personal things she's done for me. Ditto with Grandma With Paw Paw - some WWII quotes, quotes on bravery, patriotism, Paw Paws and personal reminders of times we spent together. Things along those lines.... It will be a nice "thanks for not giving up on me" gift, I think.

Clay, I watched on the History Channel this past week-end a documentary called "Books Banned from the Bible" or something like that. It was a very interesting and thought-provoking documentary to say the least. One particular aspect I think you would find comforting and perhaps worth looking into was regarding Peter's "apocalypse" book verses John's which was included in the Bible as "Revelation": Now doesn't that seem to fit more in line with "every knee shall bow" and a God who "would have all men be saved and come unto the knowledge of him"? But to include something like that would have perhaps given people license to disobey the leadership of the time, whereas with John's you can still use fear motivation to keep people under your thumb and doing the things you want them to do. It's easier that way - they obey you out of fear of going to hell for eternity. BTW, this quote comes from a website that's obviously slanted toward Islam, however, the quote above is exactly as I recollect it from the documentary and was quicker to just copy over. I was trying to find more information on the History channel about the documentary, but couldn't, so this will have to do for now. :) Who Authored the Bible?

Ahhhhhhh, I never saw that one.

Happy Birthday!

I watched part of a documentary on the History Channel about the books of the Bible and how and why they came to be included in the Bible as well as scrolls that were considered but not included. A verse I wasn't familiar with was mentioned; "How can you say, "We are wise because we have the law of the LORD," when your teachers have twisted it so badly?" "How can you say, 'We are wise, And the law of the LORD is with us'? But behold, the lying pen of the scribes Has made {it} into a lie." Jer 8:8 Does this mean that the Pentateuch had already been corrupted by Jeremiah's time? Many of the books were supposedly chosen because they were considered to be written through revelation from God, yet much of the authorship of the books are actually in question and the true authors are unknown. There are many, many scrolls/books that were widely read and circulated - some of which actually contained eye-witness accounts of Jesus, his life growing up and many other things. These were supposedly not included in the Bible because they weren't from "revelation". These were very important to the early churches, yet they were hidden, tucked away and blotted out by politicians and religious leaders through the years - Peter's account of the apocalypse is one example. It was considered spiritually inspired by the 2nd Century Christians and was very popular whereas they actually had doubts about John's apocalypse, which is known today as the Book of Revelation. The Dead Sea Scrolls and the Nag Hammadi Scrolls among other archealogical findings have brought to light a lot of things that are wrong with the Bible and things that were important to the early church but kept from us or "lost" in time. How many of you know, knew about these things? What do you think about these things?

Thanks, Socks. Ya know, I'm trying really hard to remember how craig taught this, but for the life of me I can't remember. I still have all the class syllabuses (i?) out by the laptop at home, so I'll have to look it up. I do remember the big "revelation" teachings about John 1 - or maybe it was just "big" to me since it was relatively new. I think, though, that it was a ministry-wide big deal for some reason. Paul Bro*ks taught it at the Densm*re's house and circulated through all the fellowships in the area teaching it to everyone. From what I remember, the WC were doing this all over the US. He spent a lot of time on "together with yet distinctly independent of" being the definition of pros. However, as was so common in TWI in the 90's and 00's, what was taught vs. what was expected were two different things. (e.g. we were taught to listen to that "still small voice" but we couldn't hear it for all the yelling and orders from leadership and if leadership's desires conflicted with our "still small voice" we were to follow leadership instead). So many times we were given Bible verses for why we should/should not do some things and we were expected to laud whatever teachings and scriptures were thrown at us over any common sense conclusions we were to come to on our own (e.g. buying a home). The Bible and what TWI said the Bible said took precedence over anything God might have said to us or worked within us. Growth without compulsion was taught, but not allowed. I hope this makes sense. It does in my brain, but it's so hard to describe to people who weren't there how you can read something or hear something taught and have it make sense, but not be able to do anything along the lines of what was taught, nor believe it simply the way it was taught. It's all in HOW it was taught and what the practical application of the teachings really were - which were very seldom the application actually taught.