Belle

Alright, who took the magazines outta here??

That IS cool!! What a wonderful start to a great day, eh? I'm very happy for you!

Digi, The Nag Hammadi scrolls were discovered in the 1940's but took a long time before being researched because the guy who found them first didn't realize they were valuable and his mom used them to start fires at their home. THEN, he thought they might be vauable and dangerous to have, so he hid them. THEN he ended up selling them to scientists and collectors but there was a heated battle about who should have possession of them because of their value - the country where they were found, Egypt, thought they should have possession and sole control over them, but scientists and scholars wanted to translate and research them. It was a full 25+ years before they were translated and in any way made available to the public. They have now been put online and you can find them at: Nag Hammadi Text. Elaine Pagels is a very well-renowned scholar and intimately familiar with the scrolls. She has written "The Gnostic Gospels" and "The Origin of Satan" which uses her knowledge and research of the scrolls. Our dear poster, Bob, introduced me to Pagels. :) I believe a lot of the same troubles accompanied the excavation of the Dead Sea Scrolls, but I can't be sure. The reason most people in churches don't know about these is, for one reason, churches generally don't want people to know about them. They contradict some of the things in the Bible and they raise quite a few questions. Also, a lot of church leaders themselves either aren't aware or knowledgeable enough to discuss them. I think, too, that most people have limited themselves to the Bible and, like we did in TWI, to church-sanctioned research material. These scrolls do not necessarily agree with mainstream Christianity. The Discovery Channel does a great job, imo, of providing documentaries that examine all kind of beliefs, religions and the culture and political influences of ancient times and how that affected modern religions such as Judaism, Christianity, Islam, etc... I found this site on the Dead Sea Scrolls and parts of them can be read here.... Dead Sea Scroll Library I know very little and am only just beginning to read, question and study these things, but this is what I know so far. I'm sure if I'm wrong on something that one of our scholars here will be able to correct me. Tis very interesting to me. :) I hope that helps answer your questions somewhat.

Why did I stand for 10+ years? That's a very good question! I didn't "really" stand for the first two years. I was in and out and came and went as I pleased. I was still very adamant about people not telling me what to do and how to live. I was slowly convinced that following leadership and their "suggestions" would protect me and bring more peace and blessings into my life. I had been through some rough times being on my own for the first time in my life and it was comforting to hear that I was going to be protected and cared for by God if I would do what the leadership said to do. THEN, I met a very intelligent, very handsome man and fell in love. He was extremely serious about TWI and so I became very serious about TWI. While planning our wedding and during the first year of our marriage I noticed changes in myself and doubts about what kind of future life I was going to have, but put them out of my mind as normal concerns and "worldly" concerns. Things started going so fast and our time was so rare that there wasn't really time to meditate and think about all the things that were uncomfortable, irritating and just seemed "wrong" - I was caught up in trying to be "good enough". By the time we decided that we couldn't keep up and needed a break we were sucked so far in that all we would hear was how needed we were. We tried to have less responsibility for over two years! It took me being extremely rude and blunt with our HFC one too many times for us to finally be relieved of the responsibility. It was extremely painful and a wake up call to just how much fear my husband had regarding TWI. He didn't stand up to them once in the whole meeting. He knew darn well (we had discussed it) that they were abusing us and that we were right to stand up to the HFC, but she was fixing to go into the WC and so, naturally, we were in the wrong. I have never been so upset and disappointed in anyone in my whole life as I was that night. My husband just sat there staring at the floor, not saying a word and looking like he was about to cry. THEY WERE WRONG! He knew it but he just sat there and let them lambast us and then, when he continued to be quiet, they attacked me viciously. Three on one. I ended up apologizing just to end the meeting so we could leave. I stayed with TWI for another five years after that because I never gave up hope that my ex would see TWI for what it really is. I wanted so bad for our marriage to not be a lie. I wanted kids and a family. I wanted my husband to be free from the spiritual bondage and oppression that we were under. I wanted to have the life I had dreamed about since a little girl and that wasn't going to happen with TWI running our lives. I finally realized that he was not going to change and that he did not want to see TWI without those rose colored glasses. I was heartbroken to come to terms with the fact that if he would choose an evil group of people (not God - but PEOPLE) over his wife, then it was no marriage to begin with. When I came to terms with that (and came very close to a nervous breakdown), I was able to tell him that I wanted no part of TWI in my life. He said I was turning my back on God and that was the end of our marriage. So, why did I stay in for as long as I did? I should have never gotten involved in the first place and once I did, it just took that long for me to build my self-esteem back up enough to extricate myself. Good things about my involvement? I learned that "close enough" usually isn't when it comes to my goals and dreams for my future. I learned that it only hurts me when I sacrifice my emtional and physical well-being for people who don't appreciate, respect and deserve it. I learned that you don't have to obey leadership - especially when they are wrong. I learned that God will NOT strike you down or allow horrible things to happen to you when you disagree with leaders. I learned that having a home provides great peace and security about the future. I learned that the Bible is not the God-breathed word. I learned that I can think for myself and that I'm not as stupid as TWI, TWI leaders and my ex-husband made me feel. I learned to listen to that inner voice of mine. I learned to really appreciate true friends and my family.

Socks, only if we don't have to master it or give 15% of our income to those we don't ignore.... :P

Just for the record, since I saw it in WW's post, whom I do read and whom I do respect, I have Mike and Allan set to be ignored, have recently added OM and am currently considering adding yet one more poster to that setting. I happen to LOVE having that option! I can't recommend it highly enough! Why should it matter to me if someone is ignoring me? I choose to correspond with those who want to correspond with me. I certainly don't waste my time worrying about or hanging around people who don't like me - it just frustrates both of us.

Okay guys, I did it. Is the initiation over now? Can I please be part of the Sharks?

What do you think about that, Raf? It seems to me that the guys did what they were supposed to and should have done. The mental illness community yelling that it's an outrage and that they should have considered his wife's yelling have no idea how unrealistic a request that would be. I'm sure he wasn't the only one yelling by the time he made it off the plane and that the agents didn't have time and weren't paying attention to anyone else but that guy, as well they shoud be. What if he really did have a bomb and the bomb went off and killed lots of people because they stopped to listen to some lady they didn't know and couldn't prove was his wife? She could have been an accomplice for all they would have known.... Besides that, one more second delay in shooting him after he put his hand into his bag could have meant certain death for so many people. Of course, I could be biased since I'm intimately familiar with law enforcement and military personnel and how quick their responses have to be despite how wrong it may seem to people after the fact. And another thing......(edited to add)...what the HE!! were they doing letting his medicine run out for anyway - especially knowing how out of control he can get when he doesn't take his medicine???

Oak, it's how the embattled countries wrote history, too, isn't it? The winners always re-wrote history after taking over a country or territory. Why should religions be any different? I agree wholeheartedly with your post. Danny, VERY COOL! I'm sorry I missed your exploring if you mean that you shared it on here. I just wasn't in a place, yet, to even think about those things. Now I am. :) My ears and eyes are wide open. It is fascinating to learn about how things were and about those kinds of disputes and such. I wish they were taught in churches instead of being limited to the Bible. They "think" they expand and expound, but they are so limited that people too often miss what Clay talks about. We get caught up in "chapter and verse" and stuck in what the Bible says that we really do miss that still small voice. Clay you make some excellent points. Thank you. David, This is where the quote came from: Trivial Trivia

I'd be interested in seeing it if you do. I don't know jack about CG, but I love the way you two write and respect you both immensely. Anything that you may have collaborated on must be pretty darn awesome in my book.

:wub: Thank you, Skyrider, and I yours.

AMEN, Skyrider!! I was in shock when I found WayDale. I didn't sleep for months and I read everything I could. I couldn't believe that I wasn't the only one feeling horrible and empty of self-esteem. I couldn't believe that as bad as I felt like we had been abused, that many, many more had it much worse that I even imagined. I lurked for months before I ever posted and even then my fingers were shaking like a leaf blowing in the wind and my shoulders were hunched waiting on that lightning bolt from the sky. I kept my eyes open at night for fear that the devil spirits were going to take over my body. I kept my eyes down at fellowship for fear that I was going to be exposed by God giving revelation to my leadership. I cried. I cried A LOT. I finally worked up the nerve to contact someone. John R, God bless his heart, the poor guy was the first person I ever contacted and I was so darn paranoid that it was hard to communicate with me. He never gave up on me, though, and continued to feed me confidence and assurances. Eventually I met Hope, WashingtonWeather, Radar and Rascal. I spent as much time as I could in the chat room with them and nearly went through withdrawal when I had to change jobs and was unable to get online. Then Abigail and Oakspear were going through similar situations and I confided in them a great deal. The two of them were mainstays for my sanity and I'm forever indebted to all these wonderful people. All of you who post and have posted your stories, research and thoughts on here are more valuable than you can imagine. I couldn't possibly list all those who have had the words I needed to hear over the past five or six years. Most of you have no idea how important and special you are to me - and, I'm sure, to many other people. I've been contacted by quite a few people who are still in, or were still in at the time. It's been my pleasure to help them like I was helped. Some of these people never do post on GSpot, but they are lurking and they are reading. :) And you're helping them (well, most of you anyway ;) )! I, too, am especially grateful for Paw and all the cr@p he puts up with to make this site possible for all of us. I owe Paw and y'all as much credit for my sanity and stability today as I do to the professional therapy I've been getting. :) I know my parents are also extremely thankful! They really gained a greater appreciation for what we went through and for how hard it is to extract yourself from a group like TWI at the Weenie Roast. They also grew to appreciate all of you more than there are words to describe after meeting our wonderful roasters and hearing more about TWI from someone besides their own daughter. :wub: Okay, I'm getting teary eyed and must stop this right now. Anyway - thanks to Paw and thanks to all of you! :wub:

Themex? Linda, just curious, what is the definition of "one of us"? Did y'all question whether she was born again since you never heard her speak in tongues?

Twas hoping no one noticed that, Ron! I guess it's too late to hide the story about the guy from Maitland who got shot in Miami for claiming to have a bomb, eh? Maitland is part of the Greater Orlando area and a regular stomping ground of mine. :blink: And to think people make fun of us Southerners...... :P

These are fun to read!! Sami, this is how my mom found out about my tattoo, too! ;) 1. What time is it: 12:33pm 2. Name: Depends on who you ask 3. Nickname: Again, depends on who you ask: Belle, Sol, Solshine, Wayward, #!*&$ 4. Piercings: ears 5. Recent Movie you've seen: The latest Harry Potter 6. Eye color: Blue 7. Place of birth: Starkville, MS 8. Favorite food: Fried Okra (but only when it's fixed right!) 9. Ever been toilet papering? Yes, but we call it "rollin' " 10. Love someone so much it made you cry? yes - Ever hate someone so much it made you cry? Not that I can recall. 11. Been in a car accident: a few 12. Favorite day of the week: Saturday 13. Favorite restaurants: Uncle Jones BBQ and that seafood restaurant right on Daytona Beach I can't remember the name of but sure do know how to get to! 14. Favorite Flower: Daisies and Black Eyed Susans 15. Favorite sport to watch: NASCAR and any SEC sport 16. Favorite Drink: Non Liquor: Ice Tea -- Liquour: Wine (red) 17. Favorite ice cream: Chocolate Fudge Brownie 18. Disney or Warner Brothers: Disney 19. Favorite fast food restaurant: Taco Bell 20. What color is your bedroom carpet: Generic Tan 21. How many times you failed your driver's test? 0 (but barely) 22. Winter, summer, spring or fall: Fall and I really, really miss it! 23. Which store would you choose to Max out your credit card: www.affordableagility.com or Home Depot 24. What do you like to do when you are most bored: Play with Vixen, Read, Sleep 25. Bedtime: around 9-10pm 26. Favorite TV shows: CSI (the original), Survivor (yes, I'm a junkie!) 27. Last person you went to dinner with: John 28. Ford or Chevy: Chevy if I have to choose, Mazda if I can choose my own 29. What are you listening to right now? My rude cube farm co-worker listening to his voice mail on speaker phone. <_< 30. How many tattoos do you have: One 31. How many pets do you own: One dog - Vixen 32. Which came first the chicken or the chicken egg? Don't know ~ don't care really (sorry!) But I like Brother Speed's answer.

Wheeeee!!! I also have this book! Vermont Folk Medicine This is fun!! I love finding the books that I have listed. This is one I probably won't sell though. I really like it!

Holy Cow, WW!! Modern books worth that much?? Unreal! Karmicdebt, I have this book!! Folklore Songs It's not signed and it's been used, but, gee....that's really cool!

SOUNDS LIKE A WEINNER!! Ummmmm.......Is it okay if some of us want MORE than a t-shirt when we get to the farm?? :P

Thanks so much, y'all! I love, Love, LOVE books! I got all these for free from a generous lady on the Yahoo! Freecycle group in my area. They totally filled my car - literally from the floorboards to the top of the car and the trunk, too. My car now smells like an old library and I enjoyed every deep breath till I got home and unloaded the car. (Great exercise, btw) I worked in the library in college and used to love shelving the returned books because I would have an excuse to flip through them. I was the slowest employee at shelving books, but also the greatest resource for the students because of it, so it was tolerated. I loved going to work every day! I couldn't care less if they are worthless, really, but I could use some extra $$ and thought if I did happen to have a few worth a couple hundred bucks it would be nice. Knowing my luck, it would be the books I get most attached to and not want to part with. :P My whole library the past ten years has consisted of TWI publications and TWI-endorsed books, so when my ex moved out all the shelves in the office were bare. I'm looking forward to flipping through these books and re-stocking my library, but wanted to check out the prices on some of the more unusual books. George, there are some foreign books and art magazines that I saw but haven't gotten to that box yet. If I find something that looks like something you might be interested in, I'll let you know. I just knew there would be a wealth of information on here! Y'all truly are wonderful folks! Thank you soooo much!!!

Hey y'all, I recently came into a ton of antique books - some fiction, some non fiction, some are collections like the "Foreign Romance Collection" (about 20 books, I think). They're really cool! I was told that some of them are worth thousands of dollars, but I haven't a clue as to how to find out how much any of them are really worth. I also acquired a buch of magazines, Reader's Digest, National Geographic, Interior Design, art & museum magazines.... Anyone knowledgeable in this area or know where to point me to begin my research? Thanks!!

Ya know, Lifted, I really like hearing about those days. It reminds me that there used to be a shred of humanity in TWI. It gives me hope that those still involved from those days will realize how far they've come from that and will find their way to freedom and peacefulness like we have. It's those kids who are 12 years old and younger I really worry about and feel sorry for. They've known nothing but the ugliness and legalism of craig's TWI. They haven't really been allowed to get involved with normal kid stuff and have normal friends. Their vocabularies are warped by TWI and their logic and thought patterns not fully developed in a healthy way. I remember hearing that Mrs. W used to have a Christmas party for all the kids and they would dress up, sing REAL Christmas songs and have - gasp - Santa Claus visit the kids. The kids who were allowed to believe in Santa and experience that joy and rite of passage. I hope I didn't sound snippy. I really didn't mean it that way; just wanted to clarify which TWI we were talking about so that someone doesn't try to call me a liar again.

I LOVE IT, GARTH!!! And, Raf, you definitely didn't have to read a thing to know how appropriate your post was. ;)

HEY!! I WANT A T-SHIRT, TOO!!! Rottie, I'll gladly head down to the farm with you and Jardinero! I dunno about the weenie roast part, though....sounds like we'd get more for our money if we didn't do any roasting. ;)

I'm so embarrassed, Ron! That's me after my first cup of coffee in the morning.... :blink:

Lifted, you're talking about a different TWI than the rest of us. Craiggers eliminated lots of words from our vocabulary because they were wrong and we were not part of the egg sucking world. According to craiggers - Merry Christmas means "Merry Christ is Dead" because, he said, a mass is a service for the dead. We were forbidden from having angels anywhere in our houses because angels didn't have wings and the commercial ones that did carried devil spirits. We couldn't play traditional Christmas tunes, even some of them were re-written and bastardized, imo. We were "strongly discouraged" from having Santas anywhere and were forbidden from playing Santa or telling our kids there was any Santa because that would be lying. We didn't have Easter Bunnies or Tooth Fairies either. We didn't call it Easter because that comes from the pagan goddess of fertility (or was it god?) - Astarte or Ashtaroth....can't remember..... We were forbidden from saying "create" because only God creates. We weren't allowed to call anyone "creative" either. Pretty much anything fun or "traditional" was done away with under craig's rule. :blink: That's the only TWI I know or experience. Oh yeah! Halloween?? We had fellowship most years at Halloween and didn't pass out candy. For the kids, IF - IF - IF we did anything at all - it was called "Bless & Treat" - not trick or treat. But most years.....just a quiet, normal boring fellowship meeting..... :(