Belle

OMG, words don't even begin to express how WD and GSpot helped me leave! I really don't think I would have left if it hadn't been for all the wisdom, stories, support and information I found on these two places. After they told us about the lawsuit but wouldn't give us copies of the information they were reading I got suspicious. Then even moreso after they told us to stay off the internet. I KNEW they were hiding something then. I didn't have anyone to talk to. I knew my parents would get too excited about me asking questions and doing things like talking to people who had left. I didn't want to get their hopes up because I didn't know what I was going to do about what I was learning. Finding WD was like a slap in the face wake up call. I realized TWI was much worse than I had started thinking it was. I also found out I wasn't alone. I found out that I wasn't the eff up I had been told that I was. I found out that God doesn't really spit. I found people who had been through what I was going through and were willing to spend great deals of time helping me. I found out that getting professional help doesn't mean that you're crazy (although you *might* be). ;) I found out that the people I thought were true friends weren't and the ones I had desserted were always waiting for me to come around so they could welcome me back with open arms. I experienced true love and concern - family and friend-wise. I found hope, peace and the sense of humor I had buried so far down I had forgotten how good a belly laugh can feel. I found Belle again and that's the most precious gift a person can receive, imo.

Just a quick summary. I get so tired of hearing the innies I speak with justifying staying in TWI because "people aren't perfect." Maybe not, but they shouldn't be anywhere near as corrupt as the TWIt leadership is! The qualifications for a servant of God are made clear in I Timothy 3:1-10 and Titus 1:6-8 (also I Peter 5:3). - Even though any of God's servants will undoubtedly be blamed for things if they hold an office in the church, the important thing is that the accusation must not be found to be true. - If a man has a bad reputation on the outside, he is not a candidate to be an overseer in the church. Such a man would end up causing shame to the name of Christ. - As far as Judas Iscariot being an apostle that "sinned," how many would want to follow him as an example? Judas could have gone to God or Jesus and repented. Did he? Judas revealed his true nature, and so do abusive, deceptive, authoritarian leaders that claim to "speak for God" but whose fruit testifies otherwise. - David's errors stand out because of their rarity. He sinned, but he didn't live in sin, and that is the difference. - We do not see incidents swept under the rug, nor do we see these men making this same error again. Why, then, are the sins of the founders of deceptive, exploitive groups always covered up and excuses made for them? Fruits of false leaders: Vee pee, craig and rfr never admitted to anyone that they were wrong. They had an attitude of arrogance and pride and would not even listen to those who tried to correct them. … The Word of God shows us that if anyone has the mind of Christ … there will be good fruit produced and there will be a true turning from sin. "But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat" (I Cor. 5:11). "Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away" (II Timothy 3:5)

Yep, that'd NEVER happen in TWI! If you think dogs can't count, try putting three treats in your hand and only giving the dog two!

That's beautiful, DMiller! Ya know, Bullinger may define it as so and so did TWI, but Blue Letter Bible using Strong's says that: Agape: 1) brotherly love, affection, good will, love, benevolence 2) love feasts and Agapao: 1) of persons a) to welcome, to entertain, to be fond of, to love dearly 2) of things a) to be well pleased, to be contented at or with a thing But philotheos (Strongs 5377) says: 1) Lover of God And it's only use is is in 2Ti 3:4 - contrasting Lovers of Pleasure (5369) with Lovers of God (5377) There's also agapetos, but it's not even used exclusively of God's love: 1) beloved, esteemed, dear, favourite, worthy of love

I never would have guessed you as a sentimentalist, Sudo. How sweet! I'm just tickled to pieces for Abi and Sushi! What a great couple!!

ALL HAIS THE!!! Blessed be THE Thread!!! Wasway, that is WAY cool!!!

Mark, not sure when they quit printing it. I'd guess a long time ago - probably back in the POP years. LittleHawk, I hope that fifth chapter helps! Otherwise maybe you should hold them thar sombreros for ransom.

I loved the first two shows, but wasn't able to watch it. My boss has all the seasons on DVD and is going to loan them to me. I'm a CSI (the Original), Alias and Survivor junkie too. I'm going to miss Alias, but will continue to tape and watch CSI and Survivor! DMiller, LOVE the link!!! :)

Last I heard Le*h was on staff and working in Way Productions.

Mark, they quit printing the actual PFAL book and shortly before I got out they gave away all the copies to whoever wanted one. I think we took two of them to give to "new people" we hoped to undershepherd some time. I would seriously doubt if they have any copies other than personal copies in NK. I remember they had started going through the book when I was on my way out the door and I questioned how and why they were teaching from PFAL when none of the new people had copies and couldn't even get copies if they wanted them. My answer came in the form of glares and growls.

So much wisdom on this board! I appreciate each and every one of you!! When I got divorced I really missed human touch. Real live personal touch - so I started paying a certified massage therapist once a month. She sets up the aromatherapy, groovy new age music, lights the candles and leaves me fully relaxed, peaceful and feeling awesome. It's not sex, but it IS cheaper and safer than cruising bars. ;) I've started working on my health, too. Eating healthier, getting rid of the depression weight I gained and spending more time walking the dog. I'm starting to look better and feel better. It's been a year and a half and while I'm so much better off, I can't get over the stygma of being divorced sometimes. Like, when you fill out something for a Dr. office or something and they ask marital status...why do they have divorced, widowed and single on there? Why does it matter WHY I'm single? I just check "single" sometimes because I hate checking that "divorced" option.

Always so good to see you, Catcup!

HOLY KA SHMOLEY!! CONGRATULATIONS!!!!

I'm partial to Mozilla Firefox myself.

I'll have to think of some of the best ones. I was pretty darn good at finding things to reprove someone on. I reproved a mom once because her daughter's hair was always a mess. It was dry and tangled and looked very unkempt. I brought hair conditioner to fellowship once for them to use on her hair and a detangler. The mom was a good mom and I knew the kid was clean and well taken care of, but her hair was just a mess. Turns out, after a very mean few run-ins with her, the kid was battling a head lice epidemic at school and the stuff they were using to keep her safe from head lice was what was drying her hair out so bad. I felt terrible! But by then it was too late. Then there was the couple that our HFC's didn't think were speaking in tongues enough. My ex and I were tasked to reproving them and working with them on their SIT. There's the Moneyhands hissy fit when everyone clicked their syllabi notebooks at the wrong time. Total hissy fit!

((((Sigh)))) I'm sad for your friend. Good thing, though, is they could be opening themselves up to see how hopeless the task is and how evil TWI really is and call you for help to get out! :) I'm hoping that's what being on staff at HQ does for my ex.

The story of the Prodigal Son....

Remember all the guys growing goatees after craiggers showed up with one? Everyone going to see Jerry Maguire after craiggers mentioned it? Everyone reading Ben Franklin's biography because craiggers mentioned it? Everyone collecting cottages and light houses because craiggers did? Everyone cursing like a sailor because craiggers did it? Everyone going to the Caribbean because craiggers did it? Oh, wait - NO! We couldn't afford to do that after paying for craiggers to do it.

LOL! Several of the BC's we had must have never cleaned their bathrooms - especially one in particular who used to be a manager in Housekeeping at HQ!! The only time they got cleaned was when one of us came over on command. One man had the worst body odor of anyone I've ever met. They had asked me to "straighten up" the bathroom once while I was babysitting their kids. You know I thought that meant "white glove" clean in TWIt vernacular and was none too happy about cleaning their bathrooms, but I did. The master bathroom still stank after the thorough cleaning that I did. And to think I was going to get in trouble for not getting the smell out! I actually got in trouble for cleaning it so well. :blink: Turns out they really did only want it "straghtened up".

Welcome, Dog Lover! I was going to offer you a cinnamon bun fresh from the oven, but Radar's pug knocked it out of my hands. I'll have to go back for another one. TWI taught about growth without compulsion - growth from within, but they forced it. Sounds like a great concept till you're told that they are yelling at you to get things straight because they love you. I want you to give 15% so that God can bless and protect you. I'm helping you grow, see? I want you to tell me your daily schedule in 15 minute increments so I can help you grow. I don't need any friggin' help from you and if that's help, then I don't want any, thank you.

This is a side note to that - One could call Dottie and ask her. I think she would admit to it now having been caught and with so many people who DO know for sure that she did cover for the atrocities. I also know the people who she initially lied to and I trust their word. That's me, though. And I completely understand how that's not good enough for someone who really wants to defend TWI. It wasn't good enough for my ex either. Honestly, the people who WANT to stay in TWI because they think TWI is "the true household", the ones who are AFRAID to leave TWI and those who are truly sold out kool-aid drinkers aren't really going to believe anything they don't want to believe, especially something nasty about their true love - TWI. That being said, kids usually pick up on a lot more things than adults do. They also can believe and understand more outlandish claims - which is what these horrible things of TWI seem to be for someone who wasn't directly affected by the abuse. I'd say talk to them about the things in YOUR heart and why YOU made the decision that you did. Let them ask questions and talk about how they feel. Chances are, they may not have the background that you do from having read experiences on here, but they recognize some abuses going on in the local area or people just not being treated well. They may have been feeling that "something's just not right" but not know what or why. Give them GSpot's web address and let them look around. I tried to talk to my ex, but he would have none of it. He didn't want to know and wouldn't believe me. He also tried to justify their abuses by saying that people aren't perfect. Fine, they aren't, but no one with their behavior, qualities and bad reputations should be given the oversight of God's flock. I thought showing the actions of TWI leadership compared to Chapter & Verse qualifications and such in the Bible was the "logical" way my ex thought and that if I could show they are not only teaching wrongly divided scriptures but also that they don't practice what they preach and what God really says, that he would see the light. That didn't work either. He may see it, but doesn't want to recognize it. You'll have to evaluate what your kids really think about TWI and about leaving TWI. Share with them what concerns them the most. It may not be the things that concern you the most, but you have enough information to at least get started with them. If you need/want personal accounts from people you feel you can trust and believe, then let us know. Some people here are willing to share on that level in private conversations. I was in the process of setting up a "meeting" with my ex and some of the former leaders that he highly respected and was shocked to see leave TWI. Those are people he would believe when he wouldn't believe me, his wife. I think he would have fought them and called them liars initially, but that he would have pondered it and probably come around eventually, but not as my husband. My concerns were people and lives being ruined and leadership lying about and not taking care of people. His biggest concern was the rightly divided word. People getting hurt wasn't something he believed happened for real, but also didn't really seem to care about that ( :( ) regardless, even, of the situations he did believe happend and actually experienced.

All the gushing all over him and flocking around him like he's some famous movie star is just sickening! I can't believe I contributed to that ego.... <_<

RG, thank you so much for sharing these!! I really enjoy seeing them.

My ex even said on many occasions that TWI had become not only a religion, but a BORING one at that. Now he's on staff at HQ. WTF?? Maybe he went there to get closer to "the light of the word", thinking it wasn't as boring at HQ? Maybe he went to try to liven things up? I dunno. They always said that churches were useless because they didn't meet people's needs and take care of them spiritually. Now TWI is what they so badmouthed and people realize it, but they don't leave to find the place that WILL take care of their needs - one of which is fun, enjoyable, relaxing fellowship. It's so easy to say, "I don't get it" when we're on the outside, but I still remember all too well the fear of leaving and doing something about it when you're on the inside. Leaving TWI is almost like taking a "leap of faith" that things really are better outside the walls of TWI. I wonder how many they'll have go WD and into the WC program this year. We'll see if they mention numbers in the way rag when it comes out. I should be getting one soon.

Yeppers! John R was so wrong to actually be concerned about and mention the things he saw that his ministry he wanted to stay involved with could be doing better to serve people. How dare he!! No wonder he got M&A! The way RFR, Moneyhands and G1les handled this is extremely indicative of how heartless, pridefull and egotistical TWI leadership is. These are leaders STILL IN CONTROL! Think things have changed? Think again! It's all smoke and mirrors, folks. The fans are on and the smoke is dissipating. Bliss, they continue to enforce the doctrine even now that it's extremely inconveniencing and over-working their meager leadership numbers. Does anyone know if they changed the doctrine or anything about what's taught in this new class? Did they go back to PFAL or did they keep the great forehead's teachings? Still teaching Eve and the lesbo thing? Still teaching about the gap in the north? Still teaching about dinosaurs and puking amoebeas? Who are the teachers? Did they get the requisite Bruno Magli shoes and million dollar suits to wear? ;)