Belle

Awwwww, WN! It sucks, doesn't it? Especially when we're the "new kid on the block" and can't really say or do anything about it. It's amazing to me how organizations can allow so much laziness and still stay afloat. I worked for a company that was so unethical it wasn't even funny. The losers, lazy folks and idiots kept getting promoted over the people who really worked and knew what they were doing. We would just laugh and say that we were in business by "sheer luck". The company culture was abusive and with that on top of the TWIt abuse I was going through, it was just too unhealthy for me to stay there no matter how good the pay was (and the pay was good!). I soooo understand and empathize with you. :) Vent away!

Bliss, this is just around the corner from my house. :blink: That's what makes it so scary. I mean, why would the hospital NOT tell this woman WHY they did this? Why didn't her family know about it BEFORE hand? Why wasn't there some sort of "permission slip" for someone to sign to authorize the procedure? It just doesn't make sense at all. It's really scary!

David, ROFLMAO!!!! That takes the cake! How about, "Get back, Donna!! Rosie's MINE!!!"

Abi, you would love those first three books I mentioned, then. We seem to have similar taste. :) Jonny Lingo, I am NOT surprised that you love all the Marcinko books! :D I am also NOT surprised that you quote him. LOL! I'll bet you can rattle off some of those descriptions he gives of people, too. :) I do LOVE his books. He's got his own website and has come out with a new book and some comments on Iraq. I haven't looked into it all that deeply, but now I'm more interested to since you mentioned it. He is one bad dude I wouldn't want to mess with! Jim, I've been wanting to read "Atlas Shrugged" just to see what all the hype was about, but I've got so many books sitting around already, I'm not sure when I'll get to it. It is near the top of my "must read in my lifetime" list, though. Lots of good stuff here. Authors I've never heard of and such a diversity of interests. I also like Seuss. :) I haven't read Tom Bodett, but I have every Lewis Grizzard book every written and grew up listening to Jerry Clower, does that count? ;) Those were the two comedians we quoted at home. Chef, I think it just shows what a cool grandpa you are that you like Harry Potter! I LOVE Harry Potter and I don't even have any kids, much less grandkids. ;)

That's funny! Those Europee'ins are so much less inhibited and modest than us stuffy Americans.

Lighten up, Cowboy. It's just a discussion. :) It's also a response to my post taken out of context. What I said was that because of this so called modern technology and more recent discoveries, such as the Nag Hammadi and Dead Sea scrolls, that there is more information available to us regarding history, religions and beliefs. This information casts doubt, imo, on the infallibility of the Bible as we know it. Even, as someone else mentioned, the Catholic church has additional books in their Bible that mainstream Christianity doesn't have. Should those books be given equal weight as the other books in the Bible? Are they God-breathed also? What other books might there be out there that are also God-breathed, but not included in the Bible? And, as GreasyTech asked - how do we know that it really is God breathed? You conveniently skipped over that question. ;) Not sure who this part is directed at, but it's pretty much nothing but assumption and we know what happens when someone foot U MEs something, don't we? I'm asking genuine questions and I prefer genuine, respectful answers and discussions. If you can't play nice, I'd really prefer that you go play on someone else's threads. It's hard to take you seriously when you start blathering like you did in your last post.

David, how do you handle the scriptures Mark posted in light of the seeming contradiction? Asking sincerely and not to be a sh1t. :)

I was kinda hoping there'd be no toilets and no need for toilets in Heaven.

Thanks, y'all. It's just amazing to me how absolutely effortless it is to be thankful (on MOST days) since leaving TWI. And how much more there seems to be thankful FOR. Ya know, when I was a little girl I would wonder what I would be like at 30, 35, 40, etc. and then I would wonder if when I was 30 and met me at 11, 13, 15, etc. if I would like me. Now I wonder if me at 11 years old would like me at 37 years old. LOL! I think I would think I'm pretty darn cool even though I'm "old". I think me at 11 years old would have been scared to death of me at 32 years old and deeply involved with TWI. Rascal, you definitely have a lot to be thankful for! Those kiddos are awesome and you do a great job with them. ex, you know I just think you are da bomb! You totally rock! Galen, thank you. I am who I am today because of so many people here on GSpot, including you. The Highway: Amen! Amen! AMEN!! I am still sad about wasting my "fertile" years in TWI, but ya know, in the whole scheme of things, life is good. And, for the record, I LIKE you, too! :) Chef, I thought the top of your list would be salmon from Jonny! ;) Naw, Family is the best and being a grandparent is the cherry on top from what I understand. I'll bet your the best grandfather in the world - second to mine, of course. :D

Then craiggers quit allowing rain gear and supplies to be sold at ROA because people should come prepared. But then they got in trouble for not "believing" for good weather. Gee, I'm so sorry I never made it to a ROA.

Claudia Mejia gave birth eight and a half months ago at Orlando Regional South Seminole. She was transported to Orlando Regional Medical Center in Orlando where her arms and legs were amputated. Only in Florida........

Talk about full-on sphincter pucker factor! :D I LOVE Dick Marcinko's books! Even better is to listen to them on tape/CD because he reads his own books and nobody can quote those long strings of descriptions like he can.

mj, you need to get your facts straight: The average charge for a surgical abortion at 10 weeks' gestation is $468; but since most abortions in the United States are performed at low-cost clinics, women on average paid $372 for the procedure. Some 74% of women pay for abortions with their own money; 13% of abortions are covered by Medicaid, and 13% are billed directly to private insurance. Some women who pay for the procedure themselves may receive insurance reimbursement later. Congress has barred the use of federal Medicaid funds to pay for abortions, except when the woman's life would be endangered by a full-term pregnancy, or in cases of rape or incest. However, as of March 2004, 17 states used their own funds to subsidize abortion for poor women. Guttmacher Institute

Laleo's thread on Oprah's book club got me to thinking.... I didn't know Russian Literature was so great. Thanks to Ron, I'll be checking out some of his recommendations. What ARE your favorite books? What do you like to read and why? I tend to gravitate toward fictional books based on factual history: My ALL TIME favorite book is "The Eight" by Catherine Neville - I've read this book about ten times. I just LOVE it! I also love "Pillars of the Earth" by Ken Follet and have read this book a few times. "Sarum" by Edward Rutherford Of course I also read light lit: Evanovich, Grafton, Cornwell, Woods, DeMille, Cook, Marcinko.... What are some of your all time favorites?

Ron, I got my name because Mama watched Dr. Zhivago while she was pregnant with me. :D I'm interested in this Russian literature now. I'll have to check it out. I've never even read or seen Dr. Zhivago. My mom is in a book club and they very rarely pick books from Oprah's list but I think it's because there are men in the group, I know my mom thinks Oprah is "da bomb". They were reading the Million Pieces book and I haven't talked to her about her thoughts upon the dude getting busted for lying. I LOVE Faulkner and his books, but I read all of his books before anyone knew who Oprah was. I would suspect that there is definitely an agenda surrounding how the books are chosen. Here are the ones I've read:

I work with two gay men who went to see the movie and came out with totally different opinions of the movie. (I have not seen it, but would like to, if for no other reason than because of the hype). One: "It sucked! Total waste of time! Why does every mainstream gay movie have to be about total dysfunction and have such depressing endings? We're always portrayed as freaks, drug addicts, sex addicts and completely irrational. Everything ends in deaths, AIDS, divorces, murders, etc." The other: "I thought it was a great love story. I thought it was beautifully written, very realistic with superb cinematography and so what if it didn't have a happy ending? Do gay love stories in real life have happy endings? Some, yes and some, no. Why pick on the negatives? It was a good movie and I'm happy to see something about real life gay couples in the mainstream." Most of their gay friends didn't like the movie either for the same reasons as "one". They felt it was so wrongly stereotypical and would have wished for a happy ending. I think that Hollywood, because it so emphatically embraces the gay community, is promoting it because of the subject matter as opposed to the actual qualities of the movie, which is sad. If they want to promote the lifestyle, fine, but why not make a truly awesome movie about it that is unquestionably superior and worthy of awards? And, as a side note to Sudo: My little brother taught English to grade school kids in Taiwan for five years. Those bedrock marriages? They are typically filled with mistresses, fights, abuse and no time for kids to be kids. Those kids are always studying, reading, practicing something and being deprived of real live childhoods. They are treated like little robots. It was depressing to my little brother. He took the kids outside and taught them how to play hackey sack, soccer and basketball but got in trouble every time. He finally wrote it into the class curriculum as a way to help them understand and learn English terms and words. More than a few times he got into arguments with some of the fathers who didn't like their children being taught to think for themselves. Not all marriages are butterflies and rainbows like yours must be. In some cases it is better for the kids to be raised by one devoted parent. Each situation is different, imo, and can't all be categorized one way or the other in a general or generic manner.

Thanks to T-Bone and the wonderful signature line! This morning I woke up in my own bed, turned off my own stereo, walked into my own kitchen and started my own coffee maker. Took out my own (wonderful) dog and thought, looking back at my own house, "Dad Gummit, I have become an adult!" I have a house I really enjoy and am really proud of. I have a car that I really like and own outright. My credit score is 780 and I have a nice savings account and a nice retirement account growing. I take care of me and I take care of my "things". My dog is winning awards and we enjoy quite a bit of "quality" time together. I have a great job, wonderful co-workers and my family is closer than we've been in eight years. It's a good life! I've learned a lot and I've suffered a lot (but a lot less than others). I've overcome a lot and I've got a lot to be thankful for. Does anyone else have to pinch yourself in the morning? Not every day is wonderful, peaches and rainbows....but as my signature line says......

Ok, I can consider that. :) Thank you for clarifying.

Likaeagle, I enjoyed reading your post! I actually enjoy all your posts! You do bring up a good question and obviously that lady didn't want to be challenged. Which could mean they aren't as convinced about something they claim to believe in, don't know and don't want to admit they don't know :) , or any other number of reasons. It also seems this woman obviously had some kind of agenda. I would have wanted her gone, too! She was taking advantage of and abusing those children. I say abuse because they trusted her as a teacher and person in authority - they should have been able to, anyway. And kids attribute great amounts of intelligence to teachers. It's good that those children recognized her true nature. IF what she taught was correct (and I'm not saying that it is - I truly don't know what's correct right now), then I see no problem with the tunnel and the light still being there. Death is really an instantaneous act regardless if one has been ill for a long time, gotten really old or been shot with a gun. You're breathing one minute and the next minute you're not. I have an aunt who believes that she helped my great-uncle "pass over". She had a dream/vision/something and our cousin who died in his 20's in a car crash was standing at her bed. He told her that Uncle Pete needed help crossing over. She got up and went with him where he showed her a waiting room where Uncle Pete was sitting, looking lost, she took him by the hand and talked to him and then showed him the hallway to go down where there was a bright light at the end of it. The next morning she got a phone call from one of Uncle Pete's kids telling her that Uncle Pete had died. Now, I don't know what to think about that. I really believe my aunt believes that that happened and that she was astral travelling. She hadn't talked to any of Uncle Pete's side of the family, nor Uncle Pete in probably six months or even longer than that. She didn't share this with anybody else because she knows they would think she was crazy. She can talk to me and know that I won't judge her for it. (FUNNY cause that's exactly how I was before TWI and it's exactly how I am now, but for eight years in the middle I was uber b1tch and not even pleasant for "normal" conversation.) So, I'm sorry that I didn't comment directly on your post. It wasn't that I was ignoring you or didn't appreciate your input. :) I actually spent a bit of time thinking about what you posted, just neglected to tell you. I apologize.

(((((MO))))) You have never offended me! I just wanted to say how much you bring to the cafe and how absolutely awesome I think you are. You have put up with some real vicious attacks on here and yet maintain your integrity and dignity. We're all allowed to slip up every once in a while - well, we should be anyway. :) Some topics do get very heated and when we're especially passionate about the topic, it's challenging for any of us. You totally rock, Templelady!

Lindy, AWESOME! ABSOLUTELY AWESOME POST!! You've just said what I've been struggling with trying to define in my life since leaving TWI. Particularly: and

Then go back further, the OT people didn't have the Bible. Adam & Eve didn't have the Bible. The Bible contains experiences (true ones or not is another argument for another day). Why are we to try to replicate those experiences? Why put our trust fully into man, which is what one is doing when they use the Bible as the end all and be all of life? Men wrote the Bible. Men decided what was to make up the Bible. Men are fallible. Men are jealous, political, evil and wrong. Men aren't perfect. Why put trust in MEN by limiting oneself to the Bible? With modern technology, instant communication and new discoveries coming to light, it seems that there is a lot more about historical cultures and Biblical times, beliefs and religion that we didn't know before. That raises even more questions about the integrity of the Bible. The Nag Hammadi Scrolls, the Dead Sea Scrolls, the historical records of the Council of Nicea and the religious sects and men that compiled the Canons and attempted to destroy the ones they didn't want public....all these lend viability to GreasyTech's comments, imo. There seems to have been A LOT more to Christiandom than just what the Bible covers. There's also the fact that a lot of the OT stories are legends, tales and parables found in religions more ancient than Christianity and that go further back than the recorded Bible.

These are AWESOME responses!! Thank you all! Rhino, I don't know what I'm asking. ;) I just know that these are some of the teachings, phrases and scriptures that I've been reconsidering in light of no long seeing things through TWIt colored glasses. I don't really have a viewpoint or a reason for asking except to share what kinds of things I've been thinking about and to get other ideas on the subjects. Mark, that's EXACTLY the kind of thing I was talking about! How can someone reconcile those with TWIt doctrine? :) Thank you! It seems the more I read on spirit and afterlife and other beliefs that the Bible seems to have a lot more references to the energy and essence of the metaphysical (not sure of the term). Like the woman who touched the hem of JC's tunic and he "felt energy leave him". Is it the same sort of thing as the hands on healing, reiki, or something along those lines? Do chakras and other body energy philosophies come into play in the Bible? Lindy, good thoughts! Is it the "soul" that makes us who we are or is it "spirit"? If it's just the spirit that goes to God, then are we going to be a totally different person when we get our new heavenly body? My ex used to say that there would be no marriage in heaven because we wouldn't need it. It made me sad, at the time, to think that we would spend our lives together here on earth, but not in heaven for eternity. I married him because I wanted us to be together forever - including in heaven. Reincarnation. :) Very true and good points you make. A new body would be reincarnation. When does it happen? Does it happen more than once? I've been learning about the Unified Field Theory that we're all connected somehow through energy and that's why we all affect each other so profoundly at times. Energy, chemical reactions and such affect our bodies, our minds and our personalities. Don't others strongly affect us in different ways? How does that tie in to everything? Galen, very, very interesting perspective! Time travel to boot! I hadn't thought of it in that light, but it's definitely something to ponder. There are so many smart people here at the Cafe! I'm so glad that you take the time to come here, share your thoughts and humor poor ignorant souls like me. :D

I'm not sure I agree with you, Mo. Or I don't understand. Do you consider someone telling a lie or sleeping with someone outside of marriage is out of hatred? I don't think so. People do bad things all the time and I'm of the opinion that we can't possibly know all the factors that lead to such actions. I have never thought about it the way that Bliss explained it, but it makes sense. If someone has holy spirit then they can't lose that and how would holy spirit co-habitate with a devil spirit? It doesn't seem possible. BUT, I also don't recall any teachings on what the "spiritual" limits are for a human body. :D I just think we don't know and can't know. Also, why do we need to know? *shrug* I suppose I'm getting more and more apathetic these days. LOL! That, or just tired of straining gnats to some degree. Me wee widdle brain is tired of thinking on these things.

Hola! Enjoy the week and the friends and the time. :) It's nice to have a special place to visit, relax, renew and refresh. I think yours is one of the coolest! Namaste