Belle

Well, then...... HAPPY UN-BIRTHDAY!!!!

Bliss, she probably believes "A" god told you to leave. Bagpipes, it's all in how they treat you once you left that shows you how much they really love you. ;) It's also good news that you've started recognizing the subtly abusive and loaded language that they use. I honestly think that the long-timers, like most RC's, have become so adept at manipulation that way that they don't even realize they are doing it anymore. Both Moneyhands are really good at it. Bobby Boy did apologize for hurting anyone IF he actually hurt anyone when he and Dootie were "discussing" my covert GSpot activity once. The sarcasm was so thick you couldn't miss it. Sincerely sorry for destroying lives? Notachance!!

And here, ladies and gentlemen, is how they ever so subtly built vee pee's image as some all-knowing, super duper MOG to be worshipped - after all he had the best education money could buy! Laughable now that we know it may be the best PAPER MILL education money could buy but it certainly wasn't worth the price of the paper it was printed on. AHHHH HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!! Oh, my sides...... HA HA HA!!!

Nato, you ARE an awesome artist!! I remember all those very cool posters you did for PFAL when you ran the class at the Stud Farm. ;) Can we do this with the VHS tapes and have everyone drink when the the singing ladies do those stupid arm movements, wanna be dance steps and those ridiculous dip/pivot things with their hips? If they, or the choir has on tent dresses, then everyone must take two drinks before each song.

edited to add: Fergus, one of the best breeds of dogs, imo. ;)

Actually.....Super Bowl MONDAY is the most called in sick day of the year in the US. (Found that one out the hard way) :D Some folks ask for it off every year to avoid being the statistic....anymore. ;) This year this single gal will be going to the local hang out with a friend and will win no matter who gets the trophy!

Make it a sleepover and I'll play. I don't know if I could tell the cabbie how to get to my house after playing this game. You hit a lot of the ones I was thinking already, WW. Let's see.....

Welcome, Protint!![/font

John, I repeat: But as an FYI from someone who was married to police officer, they do access a lot of information while running your license number, so in essence, they are not limiting themselves to that one piece of information. And if said DL brings up something suspicious, they do look into other sources of information - that's why getting a ticket takes so effen long (unless you told the officer you were in a hurry, but that's another topic altogether :D ). Besides that, it's an illogical comparison and one more reason I will not engage you any further. GT, who's conducting the cavity search? ;)

Very keen observations, Rascal-ly one! ;) They taught and expected us to treat them like OT kings, didn't they? The women of the village belong to the king. The audacious way they expected and demanded that we treat them like royalty. Their love for and desire for punishments OT style.... I think you just may be onto something here! A leader, pastor, care-er of God’s flock is to be found blameless. Paul became blameless once he was converted. He became blameless. Vee pee, craig, rosie, et al, were never found blameless – even during the thick of it and even near the end of it. They were never blameless and they never repented publicly as they should have. That’s against the word and commandment for leadership – period – end of story, imo. The bad and negative things that David, Saul, Judas, etc. did in the Bible were reported, handled and shown to us warts & all. Things aren’t swept under the rug and we do not see these men making this same error again. Why, then, are the sins of TWI leadership in all their deception and exploitation always covered up and excuses made for them? Vee pee, craig and rfr never admitted to anyone that they were wrong. They had an attitude of arrogance and pride and would not even listen to those who tried to correct them. … The Word of God shows us that if anyone has the mind of Christ … there will be good fruit produced and there will be a true turning from sin. They only have a “form” of godliness and we can tell by their actions that they are in no way, shape or form afraid or concerned about the truthfulness of what they teach and being held accountable for raping, murdering and destroying God’s sheep.

Excellent topic, Patriot! I, too, want to know why some of the innies are ignoring the hypocrisy and questions that this change of "doctrine" should be raising in their brains. I know a lot of very intelligent people in TWI, some are extremely successful business people, but boy oh boy are they stoo-pid when it comes to finances and playing ostrich with TWIt doctrine. :blink: I think that this is where the brainwashing or cognitive dissonance arguments come into play with the kool-aid drinkers. They are so conditioned like Pavlov's dogs to just accept whatever comes out of HQ, and so conditioned to ignore those questions in their heads because, "RFR (insert concerned leadership name here) walks with God...." My ex is a prime example of this. I don't know what it would take for him to ever bad mouth TWI, much less Moneyhands or any other leadership in TWI. TWI leadership doesn't even try to justify the change in doctrine because they know that no one is going to question them on it. Those who do will be shamed and made embarrassed to question such decisions. Even so the comment, "Heck, we can't say we were wrong. It would open us up to too many lawsuits!" :unsure: That's exactly what my ex said when we discussed the debt policy. They KNOW TWI is full of it, but instead of recognizing it for what it is, they just continue to justify these changes.... HELLOOOOOO, IF your church has to tiptoe around because of trying to avoid lawsuits, doncha think just maybe something's wrong with your church??

I hope you're doing well, Cherished Child! I miss your posts around here. I hope your birthday totally rocked!!

HAPPIEST OF BIRTHDAYS, MO!!! I hope it's as special as you are!!

I'm not playing, but I'm not looking for sarcastic non-relevant attacks, either. I have serious questions and I do happen to think that one should not limit themselves to the Bible only. I appreciate the people on here who have taken the time to share their points of view and to discuss the topic as adults. I am thoroughly enjoying watching the conversation and WISH I had more to contribute, but I am definitely learning lots. I read one post and I think, "Yeah! Wow! Okay..." then I read the rebuttle or another viewpoint or question probing further and I think that one sounds right, so I'm still just taking things in and if I never come to a conclusion that's fine with me...after all it's a long, strange trip, is it not? I'll at least have more information on all sides of the topic(s) at hand. :) So thanks to everyone for contributing here. I really am digging it and learning from it as I'm sure (well, I hope anyway) others are.

Wonderful, phenomenal posts, y'all! I'm just taking it all in. :) Thank you so much for contributing.

"...and if others get HONEST" Yeah, Mark, that's Craiggers speak for obey what I'm telling you and quit questioning me! Others: Renew your mind Just believe bigger where's his heart at? - is he causing problems or blindly obeying orders?

I highly recommend that you, OM, Johniam and Allan could all start your own TWIt fellowship. Obviously there's nothing to see here. Since you already know everything and are fully persuaded in your beliefs, then, I can see why you would be less tolerant of those who were abused or questioning the teachings of vee pee. Patience? bah! Not necessary when you just blindly believe everything you're taught. CES, CFF and other offshoots - especially Geer's still worship vee pee and what he taught (for the most part), perhaps you'd be happier with one of those organizations.

DANG, EX!! That's pretty darn good!! I'm VERY impressed!

Kangaroo’s Hum Dinger Buzzes Dizzy Crazy Monkeys

Hey, Tommy, where can I get a pair of those rose-colored glasses? :D

I wouldn't. :) Those formalized fellowships remind me too much of TWI. I tried to go to a few shortly after leaving and was getting panic attacks. I like what Rascal said. Those are the best fellowships - and the best at getting needs met. I think of some of my mother's "clubs" that she's belonged to (the Birthday Girls, the Calendar Girls, the Neighborhood Posse, a book club, a card playing club, Bunko, etc): They already knew and liked one another so they decided to start the clubs. They get together and meet someplace at a designated time (someone's home, restaurant, rented room...) it varies as to where they meet. They always have food - sometimes light snacks, other times full meals - and they sit around and chat and enjoy one another's company as a group. Then, sometime during the chit chat, the leader for that meeting speaks to the group about the topic for maybe fifteen-twenty minutes. Then the group discusses the topic together for the rest of the evening. There's no set time for the evening to be over, some people leave early, others hang out for a while. It's very informal, everyone contributes and has a chance to really get to know one another. There's no need for anyone to contribute money to anything unless a group wants to rent a place, have a special event or do something for charity. How about inviting some of your friends over for dinner or snacks and to discuss God, the Bible, whatever you want to focus on. Sometime after everyone has arrived and chit chatted a bit, share something you've been working, thinking about, learning related to God, the Bible or whatever then have the conversation revolve around that topic. It's still a meeting and the topic/purpose is established, but the meeting itself is informal and doesn't feel like a meeting.

Oh Geeze, Oak, you've said a mouthful there! It's so true it's scary. Here we were thinking we were the only ones on the face of the earth who knew jack about a concordance, Greek, Hebrew and orientalisms. We were the geniuses. I remember my grandmother telling me that they were learning Greek words in their Bible classes and I laughed because they couldn't *possibly* be taught correctly in the Baptist church. So much of our own "research" was nothing more than looking up a word vee pee or craiggers had used and then re-looking up the scriptures they gave us and marking that word in our Bible. <_< There was no "real" research done on our part. We were looking for things that backed up and supported our TWIt doctrine. Maybe not intentionally, but that's what we did. When things didn't line up, we skipped over them, held them in "abeyance" or called them the "difficult" verse that had to be twisted and dissected to make it fit with the "clear" verses. I'd say we didn't learn research but rather spin doctoring and butchering.

Thanks for explaining, David. So, am I understaning you to say that your take away from those scriptures is that the dead person is instantly shifted to the “future” and is with God, but that in “our time” they are dead, decomposing flesh, breath life into the air and spirit with God, but not with God in the present time? That Point B doesn’t exist for the dead person, but that it does for us because we are still alive? Just trying to get a grip on this. It’s a new concept for me to consider. I haven’t looked at the “Truth or Tradition” link yet, but will soon. Thank you. Mark, again, thank you for so clearly and simply laying out things. :) That’s what I’ve been looking at a lot lately, Dan. Thank you, the book does sound like a really good read. I’ll certainly put it on my list of books to get to. I concur. :D I also concur with Oakspear’s observation of your comments. :) It seems as though a parable, while it make be teaching several lessons or layers of teaching, is not going to contain lies. Blatant mis-representation of facts to make a point is just not going to happen – well, I don’t *think* it would happen.

Woah, Mark! I did not know that! So, the US Protestants have essentially, "taken away" from the Word of God? That's what it looks like. That's another reason why I have so much trouble just having "faith" in the Bible and in the teachings that it's the word of God. I think it's a great resource, but I think that to focus only on that one book is to miss out on so much more and to limit ourselves and God's ability to work within us. I also seem to see metaphysical (right word?) things in the scriptures that I didn't see before because of the other things I've looked into, including, but not limited to the Nag Hammadi scrolls, other historical records of the history of religion and Christianity. There's a lot I don't know, but I'm coming to the conclusion that the things I *thought* I knew are not so. :) It's all good, though! I'm enjoying the journey. Thank you all for humoring me, being patient with me and taking the time to continue these discussions. I really do get a lot out of them.

Tonto and Doojable, that's so kewl that y'all got to see each other! I LOVE meeting Gspotters in person! It's always fun to see each other in Real Life. :D I'll bet the pictures of her work on the web don't do justice to the nuances and details that you can really see in person.