Belle

Awww, shucks....thanks, FFC. :) you said: I was never as good at throwing around adjectives, flowery language and bombastic speech as I was while involved with TWI. That's one thing I reckon I can say about my involvement - it sure did increase my vocabulary and my ability to say nothing in two hundred words or more. :D

Now, Mickey, I think that's one of the best explanation of what TWI worships that I've ever heard. Johniam, it's just a suggestion, but given your propensity for illogical comparisons, you might want to find a different way of trying to get your point across. :)

FFC – the advanced class used to be at Rome City – at least it was in ’96 when I took it. It was much more affordable and reasonable because we stayed on the campus and the one fee covered meals, lodging and the class. Now, with it at HQ, people have to stay in local hotels, drive back and forth (and we know how late those nights usually run), pay for rental cars if they don’t drive to the class and pay for all kinds of other things not usually required. It’s less and less affordable for folks and people with “real jobs” can’t afford to take two weeks off work AND still have time to take off for sickness, family vacations, and other TWI functions… I wouldn’t be surprised to see the class either shortened or attendance down to almost nil. Sudo – Thanks. I also wonder how anyone can still affiliate with TWI. They must be dying of boredom. Maybe they are all so bored that they’ve been in a coma-like state for so long that they can’t even wake up enough to get out? Chas – :D I’m a bad girl and should be spanked. ;) I laugh to think of all the things that must have been reported up the food chain about me by my very own husband. OMG! The man is such a TWI-bot and after realizing he wasn’t going to be able to keep me under his thumb, wanting to protect his position in “the household” no doubt started ratting on me every chance he got. TempleLady – It’s so clear now, why couldn’t we see the twisting and the fabrication when we were immersed? My mother said that every time she talked to me when I was heavily involved and married that I was always exhausted. She worried about my health and my mental stability because of how tired I always sounded. I think they kept us so busy and run so ragged that we didn’t have the brain cells awake to catch those things. That’s why I like posting these articles and teachings here. Hopefully, by us pointing out the obvious, we can be expresso to the lurking TWI folks to get their brain cells moving. Bliss – That is absolutely horrible!! How cold and heartless! :eek: I can hardly imagine how upset you already were and then being yelled at for actually caring about your child??? Talk about “without natural affection” – I think that’s TWI to the n-th degree.

Littlehawk - Have you been listening to John Boy & Billy? ;) I asked many times about HOW to buy a home with cash. My ex asked for me after the umpteenth time because he also wanted to know. (He wanted to know so we could do it. I wanted to know because I knew it couldn't be done by the average Joe Believer with no inheritance.) I asked why it was okay for Uncle Harry to go into debt and to write a book basically on nothing but how he managed his debt to become prosperous and to help TWI, but it wasn't okay for us to follow his example? They would pull ONE FRIGGIN SENTENCE from the whole book where he says something about debt not being a good thing. ONE FRIGGIN' SENTENCE!! Someone on here can vouch for how absolutely annoying I was about the debt stuff. I was constantly studying what other Biblical scholars, religions, financial planners, bankers, etc. said on the topic and always shared it with the people in our branch. I shared as much of Chris Jordan's paper as they would let me. But my ex would usually try to shut me up before I got us in trouble. Everyone knew it was b.s. - even Su* Bl@ckmor*-D@vis told me she knew they were wrong and that they would never admit to it. She desperately wants a house, but is to scared to do anything about it in fear of defying TWI leadership. It's a good thing too because in my area they are running out of qualified HFCs because so many people are buying houses. One lady is going to be in financial straits pretty soon because her health is failing, she sold the house she almost had fully paid for and has been paying very high rent for the past ten years. No doubt she gave at least 15% of the money from the sale of the house to TWI, too. These poor people are in for such a rude awakening that it breaks my heart to think about it. The kids in TWI aren't going to have jack sh1t of an inheritance because their parents are going to be living off them and just barely scraping by in their "sunset years".

Watered Garden, thanks for the kind words. Funny how odd and strange the language sounds now that we aren’t immersed in it and have the blinders off, isn’t it? Now I can hardly read their stuff without wincing. Chas – I think now it’s so obvious the manipulation techniques they use to keep people in line. I just wish I had picked up on them earlier. It must have been so painful for our families and loved ones to watch us succumb to their ploys. In other words – TWI between the lines translation – You should be worshipping your leadership like the Corinthians worshipped Paul. Paul could do no wrong in their eyes and that’s the standard you are expected to follow. We are never wrong – if there’s a problem, it’s with you – Joe Believer! Bramble – That house is run like a business. You wouldn’t believe the things Dottie does for Boob. When they are moving (which is almost every year), Dottie gets everything for the kitchen packed up but, because Boob refuses to eat on paper plates and with plastic utensils, she has to keep out a dinner plate and a serving of silverware for Boob to eat with. The rest of the house will be eating on paper plates, but Boob, sitting at the head of the table like king of the land, eats with his china and silver. socks ROFLMAO!! Too true! TempleLady – You know, you may be onto something but despite the elementary style and content, they spend months upon months writing, editing and – gag – perfecting these articles.Kevlar I’m afraid you’re correct about that. Despite Dottie admitting to knowing about all the rapes and despite TWI having to settle out of court to avoid losing their @$$ and despite all the witnesses who have come forward on the web and despite all the documentation from their own letterhead and despite being completely exposed – Not one leader in TWI has ever admitted to doing anything wrong. The emporer indeed has no clothes and thinks he’s fooling everyone. Littlehawk – I’d have been hanging out at your trailer fer shur! I would have preferred the John Wayne, Willie & Waylon posters to the Way Rags for drapes, though. :D

You've nailed it, imo, FFC! Their standard m.o. is to relax the reins and just when everyone starts getting "comfortable" again, they start tightening them up again. The thing is, they don't have to relax them as much each time because the TWIts have gotten so far away from true freedom that they don't realize that they are still being controlled even though TWI is telling them that they have gotten "kinder and gentler". It's like the prisoner of war who thinks his captors are being so much nicer because they no longer keep him in a 3 ft x 5 ft cage - NOW they let him sleep in a 10 ft x 10 ft room. How mighty nice of them! See? It's so much better! You should come back!

After looking at RoyalGorge's videos I'd say they definitely have plenty of room for the nappy time implementation. Maybe the plan is to get them used to nappy time and then to slowly introduce drinks of kool-aid before nappy time and just when everyone is lulled into an even more false sense of security.....BAM! out comes the really good kool-aid. I'm sorry, that was really bad, wasn't it? The odd thing is that it just doesn't seem that far fetched to me.

Happy Valentine's Day to All the Gentlemen!! :wub:

I suck!

So much for just reading what was written in the scriptures, eh, TempleLady?

No, allan, I just don't respect, trust or like you. I started this topic to talk about TWI and how much value and emphasis they put on the Bible to the exclusion of actually worshipping God and emulating Jesus's life. NOT to watch you attack, call names and otherwise derail the thread. Threads I start are pretty much the only ones I try to keep on topic, unless it takes a relevant, interesting or otherwise "worthy" tangent - which yours never are.

Well, seeing as how I started the thread and the topic of the thread is TWI's God - not, "what does allan think about people who disagree with him?" - I consider your posts off-topic, irrelevant and mostly childish name-calling. I had you on ignore but you changed your name again. If you can't post on topic, then don't post on my threads. I ask others to please ignore him unless he can actually contribute something to the discussion, which is highly doubtful given his history.

Allan, stay on topic and do not try to start any more fights. If you have nothing to contribute to the subject of the thread, then don't post at all. Mark, yes, I suppose I do/did know. I guess just looking at that today was so unbelievably obvious WHAT is being worshipped that it took me for a loop. :) While I was reading through the stuff, it was like blinker, flashers and fireworks going off because it is so blatant and so "out there" that I was shocked. Shocked that I can see it so clearly now whereas a few years ago I couldn't see it at all - even if someone tried to point it out to me. Likeaeagle, I like simple, too. In fact, I'll quit participating in a discussion if the discussion itself starts getting too complicated.... Maybe I should just be called "Simpleton" ;)

OH MY FRIGGIN GAWD!! They DO worship the Bible!! I DID worship the Bible!! I was perusing their website, particularly the "What's New" section and noted in the part about peaceful living how every point they made was brought back to "the word" - the Bible and the total emphasis was put on the Bible and NOT on God or any personal relationship with Him nor JC. (Peaceful Worship of the Bible :) These are paraphrases from that section for your convenience: ********************* They start with peace being a blessing from God. The dictionary defines “peace” as a state of tranquility or quiet; and in the Bible they say that “peace” is a state of untroubled, undisturbed well-being. Psalms 29:11: Romans 15:33: They tell us that peace is a blessing from God. That God knows all there is to know about peace ..... Keys to peaceful living are: Proverbs 3:1 and 2: Isaiah 26:3: The article says that when we believe in God and think what the Bible says, we are trusting God. We keep our minds on the Bible, thinking God's thoughts. This is how we acquire perfect peace. Jesus taught his disciples about peace as he prepared for his arrest and crucifixion. John 14:27: They move from the peace that Jesus says he gives us in the scripture above to peace being a freedom from distrubing emotions and awful thoughts by developing and perfecting a quietness of mind, peaceful thoughts, through the study of the Word of God. When trouble strikes, we have the ability to change our thinking to not allow our hearts to be troubled. They say that God's grace and peace are freely available from God to every born-again believer because of the accomplished work of Jesus Christ. at least they got that part right Romans 1:7: When the whole world around us is in chaos, what do we have? We have peace. It is a reality for us. We have the peace that comes from Christ within us. As we believe the Word, we are able to find joy and peace in our lives. How's about, as we believe GOD? Or as we have a personal relationship with our Lord Jesus? Or as we go to God with our problems and concerns? Romans 15:13: We can get peaceful by looking at God in light of the Bible and by putting our confidence in God, not in circumstances. This is what gives us peace. Romans 8:6: Romans 14:19: Prayer is another key that helps us live peacefully. Okay, maybe, just maybe I was wrong before Philippians 4:6: By taking our concerns and needs to God, we don't allow anxiety to creep into our lives. Philippians 4:7 and 8: As we claim God's promises we learn in the Bible, we will have peace of mind—the peace that “passeth all understanding.” The peace of God that keeps our hearts is based on our thinking these things, on having an abundance of the Bible in our minds. Philippians 4:9: These promises are the result of doing God's Word. Colossians 3:15: Peaceful living is what God wants for His children. It is God's design and our objective is peace among each other. this must be within "the household" only since they don't have that objective obviously among those "without" God wants us individually and collectively to be able to lead a quiet and peaceful life. Prayer and thinking on the scriptures we teach are vital keys to help us live peacefully. When we think, believe, practice God's Word, we bring peaceful living into fruition in our lives. Hmmmmmmmm.....where's the glory and praise in this short little teaching? <_<

I was perusing the "What's New" section of the TWIt site and they have an article on believing and THEY define it as having a sureness in our heart that the Bible is the truth and that when we have confidence in the Bible, when we are ready to apply the Bible in our daily living with certainty, then we can be unwavering in our believing. They say that it is once we are convinced of the Bible, aka anchored on the truth, that's when we can expect to receive from God. So, in English, does that mean that if we worship the Bible that we get what we want from God? :unsure:

Grabs an Elmo Cupcake Happy Birthday Andreas!!!!

“Fear” is reverence for God. This comes from the believer’s love and appreciation for God and His power and willingness to forgive, heal and deliver. “Vehement desire” is a longing for or an earnest desire. It is the same word used in 2 Cor 7:7. The yearning in the heart of the believer who has godly sorrow is to have sweet fellowship with God and the disciples in the household. (Those who weren’t involved under craigger’s reign, take note how often “in the household” is used and how we kool-aide drinkers were constantly bombarded with the message that it’s not enough to be “a believer”, but we have to be “in the household” as well. This is part of what built the great fear of leaving TWI.) “Zeal” refers to a fervent passion in your pursuit of what is good, right and truthful. In 1 Cor. 12:31, “covet earnestly” is a form of this word. When an individual decides to correct his error, one of the evidences of that decision is his earnest desire for spiritual matters and for the best gifts in operation in his life. The believer with godly sorrow has a vehement passion for spiritual matters. He has been tricked by Satan, living contrary to the accuracy of the Word in an area. Rather than ascribing majesty and greatness to God, he was glorifying Satan in that category. In his zeal to properly represent God, the believer now earnestly desires spritual matters to prevail in his thinking, speech and life-style. The Greek word for “revenge” is also translated “vengance” and “punishment” in the Bible. It refers to the execution of right and justice. In 2 Thess 1:8, the word refers to the vengeance that the Lord Jesus shall execute. In 1 Peter 2:14, the word “punishment” in the phrase “punishment of evildoers” is from the same word. This again is the execution of right regarding those who do evil. The confronted believer will demonstrate godly sorrow by his desire to change to the end that this thoughts, speech and behavior will show vengeance against the adversary. In his response to reproof and correction , a believer does not attack the leadership, list excuses or blame someone else for his predicament. He takes immediate action to mete out punishment to the adversary. These attributes delineated in 2 Cor 7:11 show us the godly sorrow of the Corinthian believers regarding the confrontation in 1 Cor. They had an eager response to correct their error. They proclaimed and showed the truth of God’s word as it applied to their confrontation. They demonstrated annoyance with the adversary and his devices. They had a love and appreciation for God and his power – his willingness to forgive. They had hearts that yearned to have sweet fellowship with God and the leadership in the household. They had a passionate desire for matters spiritual. As we strive to present every believer mature, perfect and complete in Christ, we can know whether a believer who has been confronted is making progress and is properly responding to the confrontation. In the household, we submit to one another. These attributes will be a heartfelt response of the believer, indicating a loving respect for God, his word and for the household of the faithful.

....and that, Dear Socks, is why I don't clap! :D :D :D I've no doubt that you and your wife produced lovely beautiful children! I suspect Daddy's genes contributed to the good looks and brains department as well. :) That IS a great story! You just can't help but be happy when you see others enjoying themselves, imo. That's why I love the freedom to do so in church. Mama has always said we make a "joyful" noise unto the Lord. It's not pleasant for those around us, but it IS a joyful NOISE, nonetheless. :blink: God love Mama and the terrible tone deaf ears she gave me.

“Clearing of yourselves” is from the Greek word apologia. This word is better translated “an answer of truth in the face of accusation and criticism.” In order for the confronted one to clear himself, he must proclaim what God wills to be spoken, the truth. This requires him to know the word and will of God as it applies to his situation and then to bodly speak and evidence that word in his life. (?? ?? ?? Huh ?? ?? ?? Wouldn’t an answer of truth in the face of accusation and criticism mean that they admit the truth about what they were doing wrong? Billy, did you cut your little sister’s hair? I cannot tell a lie, Mother, I did not cut my sister’s hair. :D So, someone who’s never read the Bible, but believes in God and is considered a Christian can’t possibly get back in “alignment and harmony” then? Can’t get forgiven? Is that what Bobby is saying?) The believer should be able to re-establish himself in the heart of the Word and the fellowship of the household to the end that he can clearly identify the allure and methods of the adversary by which he was deceived. Further, he should then be able to honestly and openly share how he has applied the Word of God to manifest the deliverance of God and what he has done to maintain his deliverance. (Where, again, is GOD in this? I’m to “manifest my own deliverance”? By example, Bobby, how have you, Dottie and other TWI leadership shared the allure and methods of the adversary by which YOU were deceived into covering for craiggers, allowing women to be raped, people to commit suicide, and lives to be ruined? How have YOU manifested your deliverance? How about some examples from You, Dottie, Rosie, Donna, Ramona and the others?) “Indignation” is from the Greek word aganaktesis, which Bullinger’s lexicon defines as “physical pain and irritation: hence, vexation, annoyance” A good translation of this word would be “annoyance with Satan’s devices”. A form of this Greek word is used in Mark 10. JC was “much displeased” when his disciples rebuked the little children who wanted to touch him. He was annoyed with Satan’s devices that were having a deleterious effect on the will of God being carried out… Likewise, the confronted believer should have an “attitude” about the adversary and his devices. Because of the congrontation process, he would not only have a healthy respect for the adversary’s devices, but also he would have an anger at the sin. Operation of the truths and principles taught in our DTA class would replace the voids and weaknesses that allowed the adversary to gain entrance into the believer’s life to the end that he determines never to be beaten in that area again. (Where’s the example – the LIVING EXAMPLE for us?? TWI doesn’t have a single one, do they? Didn’t think so.)

2 Cor 7:7 shows three elements necessary in the heart of the one confronted: 1) Longing to fully share with the leadership 2) Expressing genuine remorse for the error or mistake 3) Demonstrating zeal toward the leadership All three were vital to bring comfort to Paul. (I’m sorry. Why was the concern about Paul?? Again, I ask….Where the Eff is God in all this?? Where has TWI demonstrated these elements regarding all the wrong they’ve done??) 2 Cor 7:8-9 For though I made you sorry with a letter….I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance… Verse 8 indicates Paul did not regret having confronted and reproved the Corinthians. Instead, he rejoiced that they grieved unto repentance. Repentance is a mental change of principle of motivation due to positive action. The Corinthians changed their minds. Every action is preceeded by a thought. So repentance, changing of their minds, was a vital aspect of their sorrowing. They did not wallow but rather took action by changing their minds and purpose. As a result of their thinking, they also changed their speech and life-styles. This was evident by the fruit produced in their lives. (Has TWI changed their minds? Have they changed their purpose? Have they changed their speech and lifestyles? I think not.) 2 Cor 7:9 – For ye were made sorry after a godly manner [according to God’s mind and will], that ye might receive damage in nothing. Paul confronted the believers and reproved their inappropriate behavior, speech and thinking in the household so that the believers would suffer no loss or injury! Paul, as the minister of God, was a helper of their joy. (This one paragraph above really gets my goat!! “In the household” – blech! So that they would not suffer loss or injury! THIS, MY FRIENDS, IS THE FEAR THAT SO MANY OF US LIVED WITH FOR SO LONG! LISTEN TO THESE SEEMINGLY INNOCUOUS STATEMENTS OFTEN ENOUGH AND YOU START TO BELIEVE IT. Paul was the local WC and HE SAVED THEIR LIVES by confronting them!! This is how/why we were taught to worship the ground Boob walked on. The ground all WC walked on. Vee pee and craiggers. They could do NO WRONG – We owed our lives to them!! They kept us alive, safe and secure! You don’t need God! You have TWI leadersh1t!!) 2 Cor 7:10 – For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of, but the sorrow of the world worketh death. Verse 10 reinforces verse 9 by saying that godly sorrow will be evidenced by repentance, a change in behavior, to salvation or wholeness which endures. This is what Rev. Martinpuke has taught us: If we make up our minds to strengthen our lives where we have weakness, we can get so strong there, we need never have weakness in that area of our lives again. (I’m curious, think someone who has been sober and involved with AA for ten years would agree with that? Why didn’t Boob and Dootie make up their minds to protect God’s kids from craiggers and the abuse they knew was going on? Why didn’t craiggers himself, Donna and the slimy fox make up their minds to get rid of their weakness? What happened to leading by example?) 2 Cor 7:11 - ….ye sorrowed after a godly sort….what carefulness…what clearing of yourselves….indignation…fear…vehement desire….zeal….revenge! ….clear in this matter. This verse shows the aggressive mindset of the Corinthians as they took believing action to restore themselves to alignment and harmony with God and HIS HOUSEHOLD. Looking at all these qualities listed above will help us recognize the characteristics and attitudes indicating that change is actually happening in a person’s life after he has been confronted. “carefulness” is the Greek word “spoude” – diligence, emphasizing no delay or waste of time in putting forth effort in whatever one is doing in his service to the Lord. (That’s a mouthfull of a definition. Is that really what spoude means or is this an exaggerated, euphemistic definition concocted by Bob to make his point?) So, there should be an immediate, eager response by the confronted individual to the end that there is “serious purpose” to correct his error. This is not merely an outward, happy, enthusiastic response. When a person has godly sorry, he responds by finding the scripture that addresses his hneed. Then he speaks, thinks and acts according to the word of God with immediate diligence. The desired changes can take place right away. And even with behavior patterns that may take more time to establish, this immediate, eager response initiates the process. We should not have to strain to see this; it should be evident! (Okay, so why didn’t Dottie do something when she found out about vee pee and craiggers raping women? Why didn’t she do something when it kept happening? There was no change or eager response from her, nor from the rapists. She was in a position to stop it and kept her mouth shut! Why hasn’t TWI come out and expressed great sorry and immediate zeal to correct all the practical and doctrinal error that they used and allowed to ruin people’s lives? There should have been teachings all over the place about confronting leadership – about not covering for leadership – about being honest to your people – about caring for the flock ----- sooooo many areas TWI should have expressed true godly sorrow and WE SHOULD NOT HAVE TO STRAIN TO SEE THIS; BOB, IT SHOULD BE EVIDENT!!)

FINALLY! I’m able to get back to this. I think it’s important in light of how often people tell us to forgive TWI and the evil leadership. It’s important to see if TWI is operating and living the example they teach and hold their followers to. Let’s recap: First Bob says that it’s God’s desire and good pleasure for faithful disciples of the household of the one body to submit themselves to the word and to each other. This long @$$ name for TWIts was a constant and, when one is a TWIt, it strokes the ego and swells the pride. Submit – another constant theme, but we really only submit to leadership and what leadership tells us the word says. I can’t recall any example of wc submitting to “Joe Believer”.) Boob says that when loving respect for God and his word is lacking (i.e. p1ssing off leadership) in the life of a fellow believer in the household, confrontation is necessary. (It’s never just a believer, but always a “believer in the household” or an even longer specification that the believer is in the one true household, functioning body, etc.) Man is to be the head of the woman – the household dicktater (this has nothing to do with the article, but it’s an easy way to remind the women of this, so it’s the example used in the teaching) The purpose of TWI is to present every man – every believer in the household – perfect, mature, complete in Christ. Confrontation is a vital part of presenting every believer perfect in Christ. (I don’t see this in other churches and their “believers” seem to be much more peaceful and “perfect in Christ”. The heart and manner of response of the one confronted is vital. The confronted individual/group should respond with earnest desire, mourning and fervent mind toward the leadership. “Earnest desire” indicates the desire to have full-sharing fellowship with the leadership. Desiring to be with him physically and desire that their thoughts, speech and actions would show their association with him. (is this why Boob and the others mimic vee pee and craiggers so much, to the point of growing a goatee when craiggers did?) “Mourning” indicates lamenting their errors and mistakes. There should be a genuine remorse and grief regarding those things they are confronted about. “Fervent mind” from the Greek zelos. They should demonstrate a zeal, fervor and passion toward their leadership. (where is God in all this????) Don’t hold on to hurt feelings, justifying their error and complaining about how they were confronted – the confronted should have a passion for the truth that the leaders speak. (Sorry, I just don’t see lauding these leaders over God in all this. BUT, I will say TWI did this very well and expected their followers to worship leadership like this) I believe this is where we stopped, so this is where I’ll pick up the article.

I missed this one! Thanks so much for all your work and for sharing these, RG! LCM does not look like a happy little boy. Skyrider, I see plenty of room for nappy time on here!

Thanks, y'all! Ya know, Bliss, I prayed at dinner one night with my now ex, and I asked for something and then said "IF it's Your will." OMG! You would have thought I claimed Satan as lord in my life. I find it much more logical and correct, according to the "rightly divided" word, to put our trust in God and let him direct our paths as he promises he will.

And I was scared to death of getting possessed after attending a Lyceum series by some people who were "real live exorcists" - I slept with my Bible on my chest for a week! I never got possessed (well, some TWIts would argue that). I was scared to death of being abducted by aliens after watching a show on that. No anal probe here. No mysterious scars, either. I dunno. I think the parking angel comes through a lot more often than "believing" according to TWI teachings. :D

OMG, Skyrider!! You just created quite the coffee spew! I can just see all the staffers being shuffled out of the cafeteria after their mandatory lunch break together and into the next room where there are pallets laid out on the floor and the lights are dim. Everyone moves to their assigned mat and lays in the approved position for "household nappy time" while Linder and one other "special" security detail person (maybe even my ex), walk around and make sure everyone is napping or at least has their eyes closed for the whole time.