Belle

Not sure where to put this, but thought it would generate some discussion and shed some light on how we were talked to and treated in craigger's regime. I will gladly scan copies of the entire letters if someone wants. I have shared all of the letters and such that I have with the lawyers for a few of the lawsuits. Excerpts from some letters written by craiggers: Nov/Dec 1994: “….bless you in preparation for your holiday season with your family and friends. [snip] Don’t go in debt….plan ahead to make thinkgs. Plan ahead to trade with other believers or friends toys and such materials that are no longer needed but are still in good enough shape to share. Plan ahead to do more in-dept things to bless your family, which would be less expensive. If you really want to get quality things, then wait until December 26 when prices are cut in half….. I trust you took to heart the confrontations and challenges regarding ridding our ministry of the homosexual devil-spirit plague. Be careful around your senses family and friends, for this infiltration is obviously becoming more rampant, and those spirits are becoming more bold. Do not be sympathetic to them in light of the fact that you know they are deeply and spiritually diseased…..If they show now desire to get out of the malady, then you have to withdraw and separate….They are not “victims”; they are sinners to the lowest degree….in some cases, it may even be wise to decide to completely avoid, as graciously as possible, situations where families are infiltrated in this regard. God will certainly bless you with a wonderful time this season in spite of all the malarkey and baloney and two-bit tradition that flies around as if it were the truth….. Our trustee household is believing with you for a prosperous, not deleterious, holiday season in body, mind, emotion, heart and finances! Sincerely, In Christ, L. Craig (Scrooge) Martindale That’s how it was signed.

LOL, George! I did have to go look up Andy Devine. Raf, you totally crack me up! But, I have to say I think you're right on the money there. :) So, Jerry Springer will be handing out snowcones as Mr. Strange? I like it!! BUT, will he be handing them out, or shoving them in people's faces?? :blink: JL, Jeff Bridges and Kurt Russell? Hmmmmm...... Moony, velly nice. Will you give her personalized lessons on how to re-arrange the ornaments on the Christmas tree? Radar, I wouldn't have picked Elizabeth Perkins for you....I'm trying to think of who I would pick, but not Elizabeth Perkins.... Who would JustLoafing say? I'm thinking Meg Ryan would be closer than Elizabeth...although I did relate all too well to her character in the opening scene of "From the Hip" with Judd Nelson. Shellon, we were posting at the same time. ROFLMAO!! Whoopie Goldberg it is!

These are awesome dogs!! NLL, I love corgis! They're so cuddly and cute! Buddy is beautiful! They do have such energy, don't they? Beatrice looks beautiful in her top. :) Vixen has bandanas that come out for each appropriate holiday. I think her Halloween one is my favorite, though they don't last very long on her. She's a tomboy and doesn't like them in the least. JL, the puppers are beautiful! Shiny coats! Tom, I really like Dixie Chick! Love the name, too! ;) She has a great head. Was she a show dog? Since we're all sharing pics, here's Vixen at work in earthdog. I hope to get some agility photos soon.

If there were a movie to be made about your life, who do you think would play you? I'm listening to a book on CD and the character in the book plays this game with his sister. I thought it was an interesting question and wonder who you think should be cast to play you. I don't see it, but I've been told by numerous people throughout my life that I look like Jodie Foster. I do like her skill-wise, movie choice-wise and from what I've read about her real life, so I 'spose that's who I'd pick. (I'd love to be considered as brilliant as she is, too.) Who would you pick and why?

Well, I agree with this much of what he said. :) If I don't agree with the rest does that make me also demonic? Ya know.....it'd be really hard to see how anyone in their right mind could give this guy any credit, much less, respect - IF I hadn't already been in their shoes with my blind obedience to craiggers and Moneyhands.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, SAFARIVISTA!!!!! I baked a cake just for you!

I think his only purpose on here is to follow Mo around and attack her and her religion at every chance. Notice that he hardly, if ever, contributes anything worthy to a discussion. All he knows how to do is attack, belittle and spit on people. Yeppers! That would make me want to join his little offshoot.....NOT!!! He's becoming like Mike in his insistence on posting his irrelevant agenda and thereby derailing any real discussion that could take place. I recommend the ignore feature for him and others. ;) I hope that the show makes it clear that this group being portrayed is NOT mainstream Mormonism, but rather, a perverted version of the original. If it opens people's eyes to recognize how they, too, can be manipulated and totally convinced that something so wrong is so right, especially those who are raised in this environment. With the isolation from society, they really have no sense of "normalcy" nor do they have any other good examples to which they can compare their lives.

Excellent Post, Lindy!! Regarding them re-working the program....I seriously doubt it. I mean, look at how rosie has them submitting their teaching in writing for approval and then having to read that teaching verbatim. She's got those long-timers on a short leash. There's no way she's going to give people more freedom - especially not those who are signing up to be her b1tch and getting in line to drink the kool-aid. :blink:

Littlehawk, I wasn't going to post on yer thread 'cause I'm no parent, but while I was walking I couldn't help laughing while thinking about saying those words to my Daddy. I can just picture it now... Belle: Daddy, I'm still out with my friends. Daddy: It's late and you need to come home soon. Belle: No, Daddy. I'll call you in the mornin'. Daddy: *********** Belle: Daddy, I'm at Susie's and I'm not coming home. I'll call you tomorrow. Daddy: Since when do you tell me what you're doing? That's not gonna fly under my roof, young lady! You'll get your butt home and you'll get your butt home NOW!! *********** Course my brain is in the gutter on these....but that's only cause I know what kind of teenager I was. ;) I can't think of a situation where it would have been okay for me to say that to my Daddy. Doesn't mean that there isn't one. The real parents on here will be able to really help. I was just sharing the little chuckles I got thinking about your question. ^_^

For me, I think it would be the Allman Brothers, Soulshine: Allman Brothers Band - Soulshine Lyrics Transcribed by Sean Carpenter When you can't find the light, That got you through the cloudy days, When the stars ain't shinin' bright, You feel like you've lost you're way, When those candle lights of home, Burn so very far away, Well you got to let your soul shine, Just like my daddy used to say. [Chorus] He used to say soulshine, It's better than sunshine, It's better than moonshine, D@mn sure better than rain. Hey now people don't mind, We all get this way sometime, Got to let your soul shine, shine till the break of day. I grew up thinkin' that I had it made, Gonna make it on my own. Life can take the strongest man, Make him feel so alone. Now and then I feel a cold wind, Blowin' through my achin' bones, I think back to what my daddy said, He said "Boy, in the darkness before the dawn:" [Chorus] Let your soul shine, It's better than sunshine, It's better than moonshine, D@mn sure better than rain. Yeah now people don't mind, We all get this way sometimes, Gotta let your soul shine, shine till the break of day. Sometimes a man can feel this emptiness, Like a woman has robbed him of his very soul. A woman too, God knows, she can feel like this. And when your world seems cold, you got to let your spirit take control. [Chorus] Let your soul shine, It's better than sunshine, It's better than moonshine, D@mn sure better than rain. Lord now people don't mind, We all get this way sometimes, Gotta let your soul shine, shine till the break of day. Oh, it's better than sunshine, It's better than moonshine, D@mn sure better than rain. Yeah now people don't mind, We all get this way sometimes, Gotta let your soul shine, shine till the break of day.

LOL, Ron! Ya know, I've asked for a Chia Pet for the past ten years and never gotten one. <_< I'd like to have one, but I'm too cheap to buy one for myself. Of course my favorite is Vixen, my border terrier. :D I grew up with cats and love them, but there's just something awfully special about dogs that no other pet, imo, can touch.

Happy Birthday, Lindy! You're a joy to read and to get to know!

You totally rock, Chatty Kathy! I hope it's a happenin' birthday!!

Woooo Hoooo!!! He must take after his Daddy! ;) Congrats, Dad! You done good and you should be proud! Thanks for posting it here so we can rejoice with you and your son!!

HAPPIEST OF BIRTHDAYS, ABI!! I hope it was as special as you are!

As far as I know here's what people think of those who work on staff: - they live in dorm rooms or flimsy trailers - even families - they don't even have their very own phone - they get paid meager wages - they have zero to no retirement savings - they don't have any free time to enjoy those things mentioned in the letter - they don't enjoy the Sunday services; they work the Sunday services - they have even less privacy than they do now living in the real world - they are incredibly isolated and oblivious to what goes on in the real world - they can't take vacations whenever they want to - they don't have the money to go on nice vacations and it's a dream to think they ever will - they really aren't free to leave/quite any time they want; they are often bullied into staying an extra year, even when they haven't signed up for it - they are TWI employees 24/7, body, soul, spirit - they aren't really happy Knowledge of these things from first hand accounts zeros out any persuasive marketing hooplah they might try to pass off in some flier. And what the he11 do they need more employees for anyway?? It's already something like 4 TWI employees to every believer "on the field", isn't it?

Thanks, Top. :) I apologize, that whole post was tongue in cheek. I knew it was on his gravestone. I think it's ironic, though, that TWI has gone so far from what their 'founding father' taught. Here is the founder with the word "wish" on his tombstone, yet no one in TWI is allowed to even say that word anymore. They may be today, but we couldn't say it when I was still involved not that long ago. They are reading teachings after vee pee poked so much fun at preachers for doing that....But that's a derail.... IF you substitute "believe" like craiggers said we should, then that would read "I believe I were the man I know to be." :huh: He can't even say that he believes he was the man he knew to be. He knew he wasn't the man he knew to be. I only wish he was terribly sorry about that and about all the lives he destroyed.

I think I took care of people before and after TWI than I ever did while involved. People were a commodity to me while in TWI. There was so much pressure to bring new people, that I looked at everyone as a potential commission payment, so to speak. <_< Before TWI I was gregarious, generous to a fault and always ready, willing and able to lend an ear, a shoulder, an extra bedroom....whatever. I was really good at making people laugh and could make people forget their troubles when they were around me. I honestly think I left most people better than I found them. But then came TWI and I was taught how to "properly" witness and undershepherd someone. :unsure: I was taught that to really help people you had to sign them up for these classes. You had to get them to say the right words - no "wish" , "luck", "bet", "fortunate", "create", etc. You had to confront them with the word to really help them. Teach them to control their emotions. Teach them to follow the rules. blah blah blah .... I think I ministered before TWI and minister today, after TWI, better than I ever did while involved with TWI. But I'm sure this isn't a good definition of "minister" to some people.

I think they wanted us to all be little waybots. All of us.... that's why the emotions are the icing on the cake and not to be heeded was such a prominent teaching. They wanted to rip all the humanity and "natural affection" from us so that we would do whatever they said to do because it was the "logical" thing to do and it came from leadership - leadership who always knew what was better for us than we ourselves did. I used to be bubbly, funny, sometimes loud and rambunctious. TWI killed that in me. I got very emotional with my friends - if they were doing the happy dance and laughing till their sides split, I was right there with them. If they were crying buckets full of tears and sick with grief, I was right there with them. After a little while in TWI I was better at pointing out how, if they would just come to fellowship with me and if they would take TWI's classes, they would have an even better life. Then I would oh so knowingly point out why and how they were doing things wrong. If they would only listen to me and quit letting their emotions get to them - do the word - pay no attention to anything else, just what I tell you the Bible says. It's alarming how stoic I became.

I've thought about this quite a bit, Lindy. I go out of my way when talking about TWI to call them TWI or "that group" or something - anything other than "THE ministry". They aren't THE ministry unless you want to call them THE ministry of Satan. It's been real eye-opening to see all the very subtle ways we were so arrogant - and taught to be so. Been quite humbling, actually. I've changed my vocabulary quite a bit trying to avoid trigger words and such.

Perzackly, Chas! Craiggers wouldn't have let him put that on his tombstone. How DARE vee pee use the word "wish"! :blink: I think that just confirms how possessed he was.

They can't even get it right when it's right in front of them! They totally took Chris Jordan's paper that she researched and followed exactly the study techniques taught in TWI and showed how they have been teaching wrong doctrine. Rico Spaghetti took Chris's teaching and then totally twisted it and took it off on some tangent that I'm sure by the end of his teaching everyone had forgotten what the topic really was. As for me and my house? I'm happily sitting on over $100K in equity in just a few years of home ownership. :)

Is this the same class where they feel it necessary to teach the students that bestiality is wrong? (page 40)

And in September 1996 you can thank my ex and I for that hurricane not coming anywhere near land so that we could enjoy the cruise we took for our honeymoon. We laughed and said, "you're welcome" to the other passengers since we knew that the beautiful weather and hurricane blowing away from land was because God wanted us, the righteous newlyweds, to have a perfect honeymoon. ;) It was a perfect honeymoon, too bad the marriage wasn't. :(

I'm sure those who signed up didn't expect to have to get rid of their pets, ask permission to have kids and report on how they spend their money, how often they have sex, etc. We all know that TWI talks out of both sides of their mouths and that they print propaganda that's full of b.s. - heck, just look at their website or the green card - or the white card, for that matter! Nothing they wrote is worth the paper it's printed on and proves absolutely nothing. People's perceptions are different and perception is reality for that individual. To say that they are liars or full of b.s. is wrong! Maybe they didn't see things the same way that some of us seem to think we would have seen it and maybe they didn't fight back like some of us seem to think that we would have, but it doesn't change the fact of what happened and how it happend to that individual. Besides that, some of you who think that you are so much wiser, stronger, logical and overall better than the rest of us who were hoodwinked, you don't really know that you wouldn't have done the same thing if you were in our shoes. I have a whole slew of letters craiggers wrote to the wc and they all, imo, show how utterly abused, taken advantage of, ridiculed and controlled the wc were in TWI. That IS why there are hardly any people signing up for the wc anymore. Now it's obvious that being wc means giving your life, lock, stock and barrell over to TWI. They were much more subtle about taking over your life in the earlier days.