Belle

You're too cool, Cool! Sprawled Out, I can't speak for others because I was never around with vee pee was alive and I really had no idea or concept of the "MOG" when I first got involved - that sort of idolatry came later for me. :unsure: BUT, remember that back then there was no internet - there was no fax machine - technology and information gathering was a lot different. It took a lot longer - a lot of trouble and, most likely, expense, to get the same information we can have in seconds today for free. I think I've seen on here through the years how the only time people really ever heard a lot of things that were going on all over the country was when they got together at ROA. So even if a few people questioned it - found out the truth and told some people, it was very likely that they would have been silenced quickly and kept from being able to share that information with others. We have it a lot easier these days and, thankfully / hopefully, the internet has made it harder and harder for TWI to deceive and destroy people.

Could be, Rhino. Could be. OR A Madame Librarian wannabe..... :blink: Actually, I was fortunate to have some awesome lit teachers and one in particular inspired a love for cummings in me that has never died. I love those two poems and think of them often during springtime - they just pop into my head like a jingle or one of those songs that plays over and over in your head that you can't stop no matter what. :) I'd try to send some warm weather up toward the north, but it looks like it might be an effort in futility. Maybe we should just all plan to meet on the banks of the Mississippi for some crawfish and cold beer!

Ron, I LOVE Tony's!!! Only I call it "Tony Cracker's" Long embarrassing story, but the name has stuck...... The Campfire Surprise sounds awesome!! I'll give it a try. Thanks! :) David, do you miss them? I might could trade....say, a CD of my favorite Fiddle Picker for a package of Rotel.... Cool, yours will be in the mail tomorrow. No chef should be denied the culinary ecstacy of Rotel tomatoes in their repetoire. Oak, what's your favorite way to use 'em? BOWTWI, I LOVE that recipe (and I only use cream of chicken, too :P ) When the hankering gets to be irresistable, I make a batch of the Rotel Cheese Dip and use it on everything I cook for a week - and I do mean, EVERYTHING!!!

I have always avoided these conversations. I always told myself it was because I'm not a mom and how on earth could I even comprehend what a mother who has been through that must go through? My experiences are few and extremely mild compared to others - like Rascal said - enough so, in my mind, to have been pushed to the back burner and ignored many time and often shoved back down if it did try to surface. I was raised in "Leave it to Beaver" land and I did have very loving, caring, protective parents. I doubt I could have asked for better parents - even though they weren't perfect, as none of us are - they did a darn good job considering what they had to work with. One day while Mom and I were visiting one of her friends who had a son my age, the son and I went to play in this shed that was back in the woods. A neighborhood older boy came by and he molested me while the son went off playing elsewhere and eventually the boy went back home, but I was detained by this guy. The whole time I could hear my mom and the other mother calling for me in the neighborhood, but I couldn't leave because of this kid molesting me. When I he got done, I was allowed to leave and my mother was so mad when I got there that she scolded me and we left immediately. She drove down to the bend in the road, got a switch at the entrance to the path where I had just been molested and beat the ever living crap out of me. How could I possibly tell her then what had happened and why I didn't come? I wasn't a disobedient child. I never got into trouble like that, but Mama was so *%^#*ed she couldn't think straight (She was only 22 or 23 years old at the time - just a kid herself, really). So I never told anyone about it - ever - ever - till right now. Mama still doesn't know. I also had kids stick branches and sticks down my pants, among other horrible things done to me in daycare. The doctor told Mom he thought something was going on that wasn't right and they asked me about it, but I denied anything wrong was going on. To this day I only have vague recollections of those times and figure I must have blocked those times out almost completely. I don't really care to have them brought back to memory either - there must be some reason I can't remember any details of it. Then when I was eleven my great uncle molested me while he and my great aunt were babysitting me. I told my mom the next day that I never wanted to be alone with him or with him and my aunt again. Mama nodded and said she would honor that. We never talked about what happened, but I've often wondered if he had tried things with her and so she knew what I was talking about without me saying it. That I've offhandedly told to a few people and always said that it was no big deal and that it didn't really affect me, but it did. *********** How do we stop these things from happening in the first place? I have no idea. You don't know a molester is a molester until he does something and even then, the only one who knows is the victim. The victim doesn't usually speak out and it's usually someone the victim knows and trusts.... If, as a parent, you find out that your child was molested do you insist that they go get counselling and continue with that throughout the kid's life? I mean, how can you tell when the child is okay? Children are resilient, but those kinds of scars last forever. And then do you worry that your child might become a molester? What do you do to prevent that from happening? CAN you prevent that from happening? Is it horrible to think that, that could possibly be an outcome of what your child had to endure? How does a parent deal with that kind of situation knowing that a lot of molested kids become molestors? I think there's no easy answer. What if I was the only person and that was the only time in my uncle's life he did something like that? If he was never abused and if he was never aberrant in any of his behavior the whole time leading up to that incident, how would anyone know to put a stop to him? How would we even know that there was a threat there? When I think about prevention, I think about those things.... I don't think you CAN know who the threats are and, God forbid, someone becomes a victim of "genuine spiritual suspicion" because someone knows they were molested and, therefore, MIGHT be a threat. We have to protect our kids, parents have to provide the oversight, love, attention and self-esteem building blocks children need. They need to have open, honest communication with their kids and the kids need to know that they can talk to their parents about anything and that the parents will go to the ends of the earth to protect them. Given the gene pool we have to work with - I just don't think that's gonna happen for far too many kids, sadly. But we also can't put the burden on the government to raise children properly. I don't know what the answers are - maybe that's another reason why I don't post on these threads. :) I said a lot for not saying anything, eh? Sorry for the huge long thread. If you made it this far, I owe you a huge door prize. Just let me know where to send it. ** edited to clarify a point **

Jard, I couldn't even get into FlashChat tonight! It kept booting me out. I'm in LiveChat now! Please come there! There don't seem to be any problems there and I'm lonely! I wish I could be in Flash since that's where everyone is, but ..... :(

Okay, I couldn’t bear to finish Brend@ Mull1ns’ article as it was so boring and repeated the same thing over and over again, so I thought I’d move on to the next article. Sadly, it’s the same ole ~ same ole. I couldn’t bear to type the whole thing as all she did was repeat herself over and over again using the same friggin’ words, just in different orders, but sometimes even in the same order. Anyway, for your displeasure, I present…. Renewed to Righteousness Robin Spaghetti WC grad of the class of 1990 and serving in the WC Dept. at HQ She starts with the usual required “incident”. Hers is that she was having coffee with a good friend and the friend wanted to give her something. The friend explained why she wanted to give Robin this gift. Her heart was that it would help her to remember to think positively and differently about herself. She gave Robin a beautiful opal and garnet ring; and still to this day, every time Robin wears the ring, it reminds her to elevate her thoughts about herself. God, says Robin, gives His children a gift when they are born again. God gives us his gift of holy spirit, which includes his righteousness. Romans 5:17 says that “they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.” She says that when we believe this reality from God’s word, it helps us to think differently about ourselves and to elevate our thoughts to the standard of the word. God made his children righteous by the accomplishments of JC. We as believers can manifest our righteousness when we renew our minds to God’s word, confessing the word and taking action on it. (sounds like same old drivel to me…. She invites us to “go to the word” to see what is written in the Bible regarding our righteousness. The scriptures reveal how someone can be made righteous spiritually. Romans 10:9-10 The instant any individual confesses that Jesus is lord and believes God raised him from the dead, that person is saved and becomes a son of God. At that same point, she says, that believer is made righteous before God, “for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness…” A clear definition of righteousness can be found in The Bible Tells Me So, by vee pee wee. “Righteousness is the God-given justification whereby a person stands in the presence of God without any consciousness of sin, guilt, or shortcomings.” Spiritually, says Robin, a born again believer has the right to stand in the presence of God withouth any consciousness of sin, guilt, or shortcomings. Some have erroneously taught that righteousness may be earned by performing good works. Reading the scriptures for ourselves enlightens us on the difference between God’s righteousness and man’s opinions of righteousness. Sincerity is no guarantee for truth. To live and claim our righteousness, she says, it is important to read the Word for ourselves and not merely rely on what people may say about it. God’s word declares that Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. Romans 10:3-4 Those, she says, who are unaware of God’s righteousness go about trying to establish their own righteousness. Even well meaning Christians may do all kinds of good works and beneficent acts trying to please God, but these good works do not make them righteousness. 2 Cor 5:21 JC was the complete substitution for sin. There was nothing left undone in his substitution for us. As we accept the accomplished works of Christ a a finished reality, we hold the truth regarding our righteousness in mind. We do not feel compelled to work out our own righteousness in mind. We do not feel compelled to work out our own righteousness because we know that God through the accomplished work of JC worked it out for us. Ro 5:6-8 Robin says that if our being worthy of God was dependent on our own strength or abilities, we would not measure up, because the word says that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. But JC made us worthy. I mean, if our righteousness was due to our own accomplishments, we would not need a savior. God, out of his great love, gives his gift of holy spirit because we need it, not because we’ve done any work to deserve it. A gift is not something that can be earned; otherwise it would not be a gift but wages for work or rewards for merit: Ro 5:15-18 God’s grace, his unmerited devine favor, abounds unto many. How many? As many as freely claim his gift by confessing Jesus as lord and believing God raised him from the dead. The gift, which includes our sonship right of righteousness, was made available by the accomplishments of JC. The righteousness of God is given to every believer by God’s grace, not by the believer’s works. We have only to believe God’s word to manifest our free, God-given righteousness. (is it me, or has she just spent two pages saying the exact same thing over and over?) Imagine being in a store where everything is truly free. The store is open all day, every day. There are no limits on the stock of over nine hundred available items. Store membership is offered to anyone who wants it. People come in and get as much as they want, as often as they want it. Let’s say Robin accepts a store membership, goes into the store and asks for one of the available items. As soon as she gets to the checkout line, the cashier places her item in a bag and says, “God bless you. Everything is already paid for.” She tries to explain to the cashier how she’s different if the generous store owner really knew her, he wouldn’t want to give her a free gift; therefore, she insists, she must pay for the item on her own. But the cashier won’t accept her payment, so she goes to the end of the line and tries to pay for her item again and again. In this scenario it seems a bit silly to not accept something that has already been paid for. God has lovingly made over nine hundred promises available to his kids. Our sonship right of righteousness is certainly included in the stock of blessings that God freely gives to all who believe. One man, JC, paid the price so we are able to stand in the presence of God without any consciousness of sin, guilt or shortcomings. …we have to believe, accept and hold fast…God’s free gift of righteousness…. …. (snipped because all she’s doing is saying the exact same thing over and over again) …To practically claim our God-given righteousness, we renew our minds to believe what the word says. We direct our thoughts to the word and see all we have been given by grace and magnify our God-given righteousness, not our sins. A simple definition of the renewed mind is to hold the word in mind and act accordingly. Ro 12:2-3 And be not conformed…. Christian believers are urged to not be conformed to this world. She tells us that we are not to mold our thoughts along worldly standards, but instead we are to be transformed by the renewing of our minds to the scriptures. We think thoughts that are different from this world, says Robin. A change occurs when the mind is renewed – it is transformed. One who renews his mind to what he is in Christ, according to Robin, is no longer sin-conscious or burdened with feeling unworthy or inept. By renewing our minds we prove “what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.” The blessings available from believing the word about our righteousness are worth changing for, she says. The renewed mind elevates God’s word above worldly thoughts and man’s opinions. … (snipped again….yadda, yadda, yadda….) Job held fast to his righteousness…. (snipped again….yadda, yadda, yadda….) We can avoid being ensnared no matter what the situation in life by confessing the positive truths of the word….What is confessed with the mouth and believed in the heart will absolutely come to pass, for God is faithful to carry out his promises. (If that were true, my life would be a whole lot different today…) One thing the adversary does is to persuade people that they are not as good as the word says because of something they have done. The adversary wants people to waver and stop confessing the word. However, we confess the word about ourselves, not because of our own works, but because of what Jesus Christ accomplished for us and what we are in him. …. (snipped again….yadda, yadda, yadda….) Things we can confess and claim: - the righteousness are thankful and dwell in God’s presence. - The lord will bless the righteous - The righteous are not forsaken, nor do their seed need to beg for bread. - The work of righteousness shall be peace If we hold these truths in our minds and confess them we can bring these truths into practical reality in our lives. Robin tells us that the righteous will dwell in God’s presence, be blessed, be prosperous, and have peace. … (snipped again….yadda, yadda, yadda….) 1 Jo 3:20-21 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater…. Here we see that our hearts may not be reliable as a guide…..we cannot always trust our thoughts, feelings or experiences… (snipped again….yadda, yadda, yadda….) If we sin, we can confess our broken fellowship to God and receive his forgiveness. 1 Jo 1:9 God forgives us, and we can continue in fellowship with him, standing on the word. Anyone who gets up as many times as he falls is still standing. This standing requires renewing our minds and taking action on the truth. God’s word tells us of the mighty works that can be done by the righteous. To walk in the way of abundance and power we must confess and act as the word directs. Here are examples of ways we can do this to claim our righteousness: - the effectual, fervent prayer of the righteous avails much - The righteous give and spare not - The righteous are bold as a lion - The lips of the righteous feed many If we hold these edifying truths in our minds and act on them, we bring them into reality in our lives. (snipped again….yadda, yadda, yadda….) Finally, to claim our righteousness we must also take action on the word. What great blessings are available to all who receive God’s “abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness” and what mighty works can be done by men and women who “reign in life by one, Jesus Christ!”

I know a lot of you cook with Ro*tel and I just wanted to share my new little find.... With this beautiful weather I got a craving for my favorite Corn Salad. It's made with white shoepeg corn, fresh maters, green onions, may, salt & pepper....all "to taste". :) Well, I'm out of maters and found I didn't have any onions or mayo, BUT I have the necessary cans of Ro*tel in my pantry and a bottle of Ranch Dressing. I mixed one can of white shoepeg corn, one can of Ro*tel tomatoes (partially drained) and a squirt of Ranch Dressing. YUMMY!! EX10, I know you offered me a recipe down in the Doctrinal Basement and I seriously meant to follow up with you to get the recipe. I'd still love to have it, along with any others you care to share. :) Anyone else have a favorite recipe with Ro*tel tomatoes, or not, that you want to share? They have some good recipes on the main site, too: Rotel Main Page

I thought this might need to be in its own thread as it's actually a bit of a derail and others might miss it who would be able to contribute more to the discussion: TWIt Kids Harrassing Survivor HCW’s account of how his daughter confronted a bunch of TWIt kids who derided and harassed a Holocaust survivor at their school to the point that they reduced the lady to tears. These kids are taught from birth that the Holocaust didn’t happen. As a matter of fact, they weren’t allowed to go on field trips to DC because part of the agenda was a visit to the Holocaust Memorial. Catcup From Catcup, a very reliable source of information on vee pee, the research in TWI and leadership teachings: Ham A thread started by Hammeroni on TWI and the Holocaust teachings. ToadFriend Toad Friend’s thread on the Holocaust teachings of TWI vee pee & Nazi Party A thread on vee pee’s connections to the Nazi Party. NO FIELD TRIP FOR YOU! TWIt kids denied visits to the Holocaust Museum The Thirteenth Tribe On vee pee promoting The Thirteenth Tribe. ************ What do you remember about TWI and the Holocaust?

Top, I did a brief search and this is what I found. I'm sure there's more on here, but this will get you started on what others experienced, heard and remember. :) TWIt Kids Harrassing Survivor HCW’s account of how his daughter confronted a bunch of TWIt kids who derided and harassed a Holocaust survivor at their school to the point that they reduced the lady to tears. These kids are taught from birth that the Holocaust didn’t happen. As a matter of fact, they weren’t allowed to go on field trips to DC because part of the agenda was a visit to the Holocaust Memorial. Catcup From Catcup, a very reliable source of information on vee pee, the research in TWI and leadership teachings: Hammeroni's Thread A thread started by Hammeroni on TWI and the Holocaust teachings. ToadFriend's Thread Toad Friend’s thread on the Holocaust teachings of TWI vee pee & the Nazi Party A thread on vee pee’s connections to the Nazi Party. TWIt Kids Denied TWIt kids denied visits to the Holocaust Museum Thirteenth Tribe On vee pee promoting The Thirteenth Tribe.

Top, there have been some discussions about this on here, but I can't exactly remember what was posted about vee pee's reign. I do know that craig had a few tirades about how the Jews were claiming that they were "owed" this and that from people and that it was all b.s. because of the hoax that the holocaust was. The Thirteenth Tribe and The Myth of the Six Million were on the list of books that were "suggested" reading for us in the 90's and we know that suggestion from leadership is tantamount to a command. ;) I'll see if I can find the other discussion on this... As for working in the library....didn't you just LOVE it? I worked in the library during college and fell even more in love with reading than I already had. I would take forever to shelve the books that were returned because I would flip through so many of them and sometimes get lost reading through them and have to work late to "catch up" on my shelving.

It's Beautiful! It's the Perfect Temperature! The Orange Blossoms are Blooming and the earth smells like sweet perfume..... I've been sleeping with the windows open and the a/c off and enjoying every minute of it!! I just dread the hot Florida summer that I know will follow. But for now, I'm basking in the sun, inhaling the perfume and spending as much time outdoors as I possibly can. It makes me crave and devour e.e. cummings poetry while lying in the yard with my dog; both of us drinking in the sweet smells. warped this perhapsy warped this perhapsy stumbl i NgflounderpirouettiN g :seized( tatterdemalion dow nupfloatsw oon InG s ly)tuck.s its(ghostsoul sheshape) elf into leasting forever most magical maybes of certainly never the iswas teetertiptotterish sp- inwhirlpin -wh EEling ;a!who, ( whic hbubble ssomethin gabou tlov e) ******************** in Just- in Just- spring when the world is mud- luscious the little lame baloonman whistles far and wee and eddyandbill come running from marbles and piracies and it's spring when the world is puddle-wonderful the queer old baloonman whistles far and wee and bettyandisbel come dancing from hop-scotch and jump-rope and it's spring and the goat-footed baloonMan whistles far and wee

:unsure: Are we there yet? HAPPIEST OF BIRTHDAYS TO YOU!!! YOU'RE AN ABSOLUTEL DELIGHT!!

Thanks, WW. Those are great, but not the one I was looking for. :) They should be on the top of the list of things for people to read when they first find the cafe, imo. Those are insights into TWI that most of us average folk were never exposed to or privvy to. GT, ahhhhh at least I'm not imagining things. I probably have it on one of my CDs of threads that I saved through the years. I'll look through those this week and see if I can find it. I can't imagine not saving it. If I can't find it and if there's anything I can do to help with those lost threads - retype them or whatever, just let me know.

And we know vee pee never told a lie. <_< vee pee said it so it MUST be true, right? Even if it contradicts everyone else and even himself at other times when speaking of the same incident....

Careful with those kinds of asperations, Cool. They'll have the whole compound in lockdown while they interrogate every single person trying to find the leak. God's love and His "word" aren't "available" to everyone, ya know? Just the worthy ones.

Yes, Jerry, thank you ever so much for all your hard work on that and for keeping it where we can access it. Thanks to everyone else who seriously considered, studied and contributed to that information. I can't even begin to explain what a help that was to me when I was starting out questioning everything we had been taught. There's just no words and now way I could thank you for how much that helped me. Regarding that group in Belize.... I knew there had been a discussion on them sometime ago and FINALLY found the thread. This may shed some more light on who they are: Living Tree Academy

Okay, I've spent a lot of time trying to find Radar's "Night That Will Live in Infamy" Thread and can't find it to save my life. Could someone more nimble with the search functions help? I have, however, had fun looking through a lot of old threads.

from Grease Spot Way Dale Editorials This is how I think of the 90's in TWI. I got involved with TWI in the 90's. And was relatively isolated from much of the horrors that were going on because I never aspired to be WC, WOW or even to go to the Advanced Class, initially. I only knew TWIts who were in the Orlando area and never really understood or saw the "big picture" of TWI. I would see injustice after injustice, but I thought that they were isolated incidents. I even thought that some of the people who got into trouble deserved it. Now I'm sorry for ever thinking that and how I might have treated those people. My experience started with enjoying the learning and feeling like I had answers. Then the teachings on more "practical" application of what they said the Bible said. Then increased meetings and increased expectations that we would follow through on the things they said we should be doing. Then increased accountability and scrutiny of our lives, but I was following all the rules so it wasn't a concern to me. Then the attacks on people stepped up and became more public and more cruel, but I wasn't involved so it wasn't a concern to me. Then I got married and started wanting to do some of the things that they said were wrong, like buying a house. I tried to fight back, but by that time there was no one left to fight with me because everyone was too scared to speak up and those who weren't had already been kicked out.

:blink: Mr. J0e C0ulter? Our very own family and sex teacher and his wife?? How ironic is that??? ROFLMAO!! Next thing you know they'll have Ed & Jacquie Horney teaching it.

Of those I know who did go, not one wanted to stay more than the one year they agreed to be there. One gal was coerced into staying for another year because they told her that she had signed up for two years. She didn't. They put a lot of pressure on her to stay for another year and so she did, albeit very reluctantly. Those I know who worked at HQ or even those on the field who were on TWIt pay had a very difficult time adjusting to life in "the real world." However, once they got the taste of freedom (even that little bit of freedom we had) was soooo sweet to them. It was enough to make them not want to go back on staff, ever again. Imo, the only people who are genuinely happy being on staff these days are those who are in a position to have their feet kissed and those who know nothing but kissing feet. I'm hoping that my ex's first year on staff has been enough to open his eyes to how rotten TWI is through and through because of the fungus and decay at the root of TWI.

MMMMMmmmmmmm....Crawfish Boils!! I grew up eating crawfish and drinking cold beer! Ahhh, the memories! We'd listen to live Blues sittin' on the dock of the Mississippi River watching the River Boats and the Floozie contests while sucking heads and eating tails. Makes me homesick...

Ditto what Jard says. :) Thanks to some one-on-one help ( ), I'm able to get into Live Chat now. I like it! It reminds me of the other chat rooms that everyone has seemed to like so much through the years. I can get into Flash Chat at work, but not Live Chat thanks to the Network Nazi's. However, people don't seem to chat much during the day anymore and I wouldn't be able to chat much during work hours anyway. Shouldn't chat much during work hours is more like it.

(((((Shaz))))) I'm sorry I missed your birthday, but if it doesn't show up on the bottom of the screen, I have no way of knowing. :) I'm so sorry about your car! I hate being dependent on someone else and I really hate not having my wheels. Hopefully she has good insurance and will be able to cover all the expenses for getting your car and - especially YOU - back into shape. Maybe you'll get a new car? I also hope you heal up quickly with as little inconvenience and pain as possible!! Since I'm no longer giving TWI 18% of my income I'll be more than happy to make a contribution to your son's doctor's lawyer fund. I really am sorry that I missed your birthday. You contribute a lot here and I'm always glad to see your name on the boards.

WWJLA, I'd love to hear you sing that with your angelic voice! :) I break into that song quite frequently when the pressure breaks in various situations in life. That or Psalms 100, but I can't sing and Psalms 100 isn't very good without having enough people to do it "in the round". ;) Toppers, which song is that? Let the Lower Lights Be Burning or My Anchor Holds? None of the above?

That's really neat, Dave!! How cool! It's like your very own real live "Cheers"! Not many people have a place like that, much less the longevity and wealth of comeraderie. I really enjoyed reading about Sir Ben's. Thanks for sharing that with us!