Belle

Squirrely Bird, are you going to bring up that dam n pamphlet again, too?? We discussed all that and settled it, I thought. You know where we stand and we know where you stand. There is no inconsistency in what we post!! You just disagree and choose to hold and revere the words of an ignorant, illogical, insidious, evil man regardless of whether they are correct or not.

Are you saying that despite being presented with overwhelming evidence that what you were taught is wrong, you will still refuse to change your stance? You're that determined to hold onto wrong teachings? vee pee himself said that if you could find one - just one contradiction the whole thing falls apart and no longer fits like a hand in a glove. If you're going to follow vee pee's logic then at least follow the correct parts of it. ;) His definition of agape is wrong. Flat out wrong. craiggers made it worse by adding "in the household" to the end of the definition thereby limiting agape to those involved with and faithful to TWIt doctrine. Luk 11:43 Woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye love (agape) the uppermost seats in the synagogues and greetings in the markets. Jhn 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved (agape) darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. Jhn 12:43 For they loved (agape)the praise of men more than the praise of God. 2Ti 4:10 For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved (agape) this present world, and 2532 is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia. Maybe watch and read a bit. Maybe ask questions instead of trying to teach, especially when you obviously don't know your own material well enough to answer questions and discuss logical reasoning behind why you believe the way you do. Furthermore, if you think that TWIts have done more for God than saints in the RC Church, then you're sorely mistaken. Exactly which books of the Bible do you think people had? How often do you think they actually got to study and look at it in depth? You might be surprised. Mo is right on target. It wasn't as easy back then and there wasn't as much information as you seem to think.

Welcome, mckeanj!!! I guess on this thread it would be appropriate to offer you some brownies..... Grab a few, enjoy your stay. We look forward to hearing more from you. :) Mstar, I think I read somewhere that it's stronger today than it was "back in the day" and I suspect that the penalties and crackdowns are making it more expensive because of the risk involved.....but I'm just guessing. It very well could be priced based on "what the market can bear".

Dooj, I'll share my Raisinettes if you'll share your peanut M&Ms. :D How about these verses? It looks here like the righteous are those who do righteous things. I can't say that I know any TWIts who do these righteous things....

Thank you soooooo much, GT!!

A double minded man is unstable in all his ways. ALL his ways. Craig learned this from vee pee and yelled at us about being double minded on a regular basis. I'd consider both vee pee and craiggers double-minded. I'd call them a lot of things, actually, but double-minded is the one that fits here. ;)

Thanks, Tom. I really appreciate it. I still have a long way to go and I change my mind almost every day on something, but I'm enjoying the journey. I have always enjoyed your posts and input here, so I'm really glad to see you active at the Cafe these days. :) Just this morning I was reflecting on how much I've learned from WayDale and here. The folks down in the doctrinal basement have really helped me on all my theology questions, belief questions and stuff like that. The folks all over the board have taught me logic and reasoning skills that I never thought I would "get". Not that I get them totally now or am any good at it, but I am learning. :) There is much wisdom on these boards. Here's the link to Jerry's compilation of the studies: A Biblical Analysis of TWI Here's a link to a post he made regarding it: Jerry's Post The site has all the threads and he's got links to specific topics. It's a wonderful resource, imo. When they were discussing all these things it was waaaaayyyyy over my head and I couldn't keep up, but I"m really glad that Jerry preserved it. I think you'll really enjoy looking at it. I think, if I recall correctly, that Jerry started out defending PFAL and through the discussion came to the realization that it wasn't all it was cracked up to be. Incredible transformation right before your eyes.

Well, if it looks like Goey's bud....... :unsure:

Good Morning America was doing a survey of sorts to get the opinions of people to see if they think that the news covers the war accurately or if they should do more "positive" reporting such as the schools being built and other progress that's being made over there. The public (who responded on GMA's website) overwhelmingly agreed with President Bush that the news was one-sided and seemed to have a political agenda behind it. Bush did not mention the political agenda, I don't think, but the people sure did. Even after acknowledging that this is what the people want they went into all the negative news and told of ONE story they tried to do of the comedy shows that are increasing in numbers on the tv over there but the producer was shot and killed on his way to work. It was almost as if they were saying, "See, we tried to give you good news, but there just isn't any to be had." Funny, you can find those kinds of good news things on any soldier's blog and in so many other places like anysoldier.com, but those darn broadcasters with all their money and technology and manpower just can't seem to find anything good to report? :huh: Besides that, it's pathetic that individuals have to railroad through to get something done in no time that takes years to do when you add all the government red tape to the process. Thank God for heros that fight back!

Not to nitpick, but it's actually "in other words" - that's the proper grammar and phrase. :) I suppose if the Devil was having a symposium and going to be sharing "truth" WD would want to sit as his feet so he can benefit from the truth. After all, that's what Jesus did, right? ;) The problem comes from continuing to teach "the rest".

I think the biggest problem with this is that they don't know where the error is. They have merely memorized a class and they have a lazy way to teach people, which means to me that they really don't care about helping people so maybe it's a power thing. If they really cared about people, they wouldn't want to teach any error. If the Devil himself put together a class with the mix of truth, error and b.s. like vee pee did, and they took that class and felt like it changed their lives, they would use that class to teach people. They really don't have a handle on what the truth is and they can't prove or justify anything that they teach, all they can do is parrot what they learned in PFAL and TWI. There's no understanding and it seems to be obvious there's no desire to have any understanding. Certainly refraining from open discussion about PFAL and lack of comment on Jerry's awesome documentation of the in depth analysis of PFAL that went on previously seems to indicate that. If someone were to pick apart PFAL - take out the bad - keep the good and make their own class, I'd certainly support them, but there's no way I can see to justify or supporting people teaching error and bondage to people. It's lying. Bold Faced Lying and they should be ashamed. IMNHO

What exactly is a "believing believer"? God only talks to one person at a time when there is a group of people? Who determines and how does one know who the "closest" to God is? How does one know who God has selected? Isn't that being a respector of persons? Doesn't the Bible say that God is not a respector of persons? What information or scriptures backs up the answers to those questions?

Chas, I'd think twice about turning my kids over to Tom. I have a feeling he would teach them how to fart with their armpits and other cute and delightful things like that, then gas them up on sugar-laden snow cones and pass them back to you. :P Grace, do you know how to save a bookmark? You could bookmark us so that you just have to click to get back to the cafe. I'll gladly help. Also, I know what you mean about wanting to be with others for worship. If you haven't already, I suggest checking out a bunch of churches - kind of like a scavenger hunt - and I'm pretty confident you'll find a place where you are happy and delighted to be. Churches have reallly come a long way in what and how they teach and how they take care of people. :) I think that's another reason why TWI has no appeal to people who've already experienced the greatness of what churches have to offer.

And, CW, I reckon it does prove the point that PFAL adherents will not engage in a doctrinal discussion. They'll change the subject, question the question, attack the poster, but they will not engage in a discussion about an actual issue questioning their doctrinal beliefs. I already know that the people who post in the Doctrinal section are intelligent, confident in their beliefs and able to offer proof, validation and enlightening discussion on the topic. It's those PFAL adherents that I was hoping would post on your thread. I suspect we'll not see them down there to have a real discussion. Any visits to your thread by them will be much of the same that we already saw on page 1.

One would hope that would be the case. :) I didn't think about the ambiance of the forum being changed if some who aren't serious about Doctrinal questions, discussions and debate. Things get heated, sure, but there is a more dignified approach to the issues than can be found in the "About the Way" section where a lot of "Yo Mama" can be found. I don't want to lose that. That's where I work out my serious musings, questions, internal debate about God, the Bible, the historical evidence refuting the Bible, etc. I like posting it down there because I know that my questions will be taken seriously and answered honestly from differing points of view without the thread deteriorating into a pis sing contest or personal attack. I guess when I started this yesterday, I was mostly upset about CW's thread being moved down there so quickly. The point of her thread was more to expose WayBrain thinking than it was doctrinal and before the thread could even get going it was moved. That's happened to some of my threads, too. I didn't want some threads to become doctrinal discussions and I really wanted input from the About the Way forum posters, but the threads are moved to Doctrinal and die a quick death because they aren't interesting or "real" doctrinal questions, imo. Maybe the discussion should be more along the lines of what is a Doctrinal thread and what determines why a post my be moved down there?

I'm really amazed at your lack of logic and reasoning, WD. It's actually kind of sad. :( vee pee plagarized people's work Said work may or may not be correct, some of it obviously isn't vee pee took some plagarized work (not all of the work he plagarized) and twisted that (that some) plagarized work to totally mean something different from what the plagarized work actually said. If I plagarize your words - keep some words the way you actually said and meant them, then took some of your words and used them out of context or in such a way as to totally mean something you didn't plan to communicate then I did the same thing vee pee did. Why is that so hard for you to comprehend, much less admit? Does anyone get what I'm saying? Is there a better way to communicate it? Maybe it's my fault for being able to clearly explain what I'm trying to say.....

OR rosie foxenbarf may have just moved Jacque closer to craiggers. <_<

Rascal, it's just my opinion that those folks have to justify the evil actions and lives being ruined because they must have some connection to it in one way or another and to actually admit that things were wrong and that vee pee and the other leaders were awful, evil, corrupt and downright devilish would cause even more conflict and guilt in their own lives. For some sick reason they have a vested interest in protecting vee pee and those horrible people. BUT all that rhetoric and attacks are just smoke and mirrors to get away from actually answering the question asked. Just a friendly reminder of the topic that is actually supposed to be the center of the discussion on this thread: THE Question - Still No Answer

Still doesn't answer the question, either, does it Galen? :)

Paw, could we maybe move the "Doctrinal" section up closer to the "About the Way" forum? Once things get relegated to the basement they get lost and most people don't wander down that far and don't know how many really good discussions actually do go on way down there. For Example: CoolWaters started an awesome thread (An Experiment) and it's very light in nature and not necessarily "doctrinal", imo, but it got moved to Doctrinal from About the Way so fast that probably only a handful of people are actually even going to see it. I wonder if maybe more people would visit and participate if it were more closely located to the About the Way section. :)

Still no answer, eh? Still dodging the actual question, eh? Figures.

You betcha, Mo! Want butter on your popcorn? I see we still don't have an answer and I'm guessing we still haven't even touched the actual subject of the question.. ..probably still trying to change the subject.... that would be my guess.... Rice Krispies are ready!!!! Yummy!!! Help yourself....

I am very serious, Rascal! But you knew that already. I think the Granddaughter of that incredible woman is pretty darn incredible herself ....but then again, I'm biased, cause I also consider her a very dear friend of mine. And I want more than stories - I would need a picture of the two "Z"'s to hang in young "Z"'s room. :)

And, if I ever get to have a little girl, she's gonna be named after that WayDale baby. ^_^ :jump:

Plenty to go around, CW..... I've got some Rice Krispy Treats ordered, too. The waitress is going to bring 'em out as soon as they're ready.