Belle

Cool! Thanks, Mark! I have also gotten interested more in the history of Christianity and religion/beliefs since getting out of TWI. That's why, I think, the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Nag Hammadi Scrolls are so interesting to me. I'm also looking forward to that Discovery show coming up on the "missing book" of Judas. I think I might get lost in those links you provided sometime today. :P Thank you.

I did not post this in Doctrinal because those folks don't need any help. :) What online study tools do you recommend? Which ones do you use? Not just about Bible verse....logic and reasoning tools, too, seems to be a need here sometimes. I primarily use www.blueletterbible.com for scriptures, concordance and commentary. If I'm interested in something in particular, like the Dead Sea Scrolls or the Nag Hammadi scrolls I Google those and have not a few bookmarks on them.

So --- $2.50 for three cans is too much? Important detail I missed...."for three cans". I read $2.50 per can! :blink: No, that's about right. Have you cooked anything with it yet? Linda, do you use the Extra Hot or the Original? I've found that I normally use 1 can of one and 1 semi-drained can of another in place of each "1 can" called for in recipes. 2 cans is a wee bit too much, but draining some of the juice from one usually works. I'm going to have to try the King Ranch Chicken now, between you and BOWTWI recommending it, I feel I'm missing out!

I've probably told this story before, but Goey's experience reminded me of it. If it's a boring repeat, I apologize. M*tthew H*rmon, married to L*urie Wierw*lle, was our BC for a bit after they got married. We had regular HFC meetings at their place. Since L*nda M*cDuffie lived here for a while and she would come to the meetings occasionally. Once, the meeting was about to start and we were all in our seats waiting to start. Linda walked in, but she was in the back of the room and we all had our backs to her. There was no way to know someone had come into the apt. and no way to know who it was, much less if it was clergy. We got ripped a new one from Matthew. Totally went off for the longest time about how disrespectful we were and how her coming in from behind us was no excuse for not standing. :blink: I didn't know "all nine all the time" included eyes in the back of our head. He went on about what the protocol is and how we are to stay standing till the "ordained of God" sat down. A few meetings later Linda came to the meeting. As good little waybots we all stood and watched her walk to a seat near the front of the room. She was smiling and she started to sit - we started to sit - she stood up - we stood back up - she went halfway to her seat - we went halfway to our seats - she stood up again - we stood up again and we all started laughing. I really like Linda and I think that she was letting us know that it wasn't a big deal to her. She really didn't seem to care whether we had stood or not. :) Kind of a smack in the face to Matthew, but without saying a word.

I agree, Garth. They seem to be very lacking in social skills and "real world" common sense. Too protected, imo. Most of the ones I knew here who were college age were so naive and, well, "stepford" little robots for the most part. Sweet, bright and well behaved, but just kind of "empty" when it came to substance of personality. Not all, mind you, but the overwhelming majority of them were.

Here's the link to HCW's post I was talking about: Not your typical story TWIt Kids And this is how those wonderful TWIt kids are raised. :blink:

Once Live Chat wins. That's my vote, anyway. ;)

We all know that TWI kids are bright, well behaved little ones. That's no surprise. The thing is, to me anyway, that these kids are getting all these "special spotlights" on them whereas kids that are better than or just as good as them who happen to NOT be associated with TWI aren't getting any press or stories printed about them. HCW confirmed this on a post earlier where I asked about the seeming preference for these articles being written about TWI kids. I think TWI is behind these kids getting all this press. Just interesting that there aren't any articles like this about non TWI kids. Not the kids fault - they're just doing their thing, but TWI is trying to capitalize on it - just another form of name dropping, imo. I tried the link twice - the first time it wouldln't load the second time it would. I don't want to get Paw into any trouble, so if you can't see the article and would like to, PM me and I'll PM the article to you. Oh yeah, I also thought some of you may know the family and have wondered how they were doing. :)

Goey,

JohnIam, I'm glad you found a place where you and your family are happy and getting what you need and want out of fellowship. It really does take some work sometimes to find that fit that seems "just right". I was so disappointed in the Baptist churches I visited when I first started looking. One of the ministers sounded just like craiggers....gave me the heebie jeebies and if I hadn't been in the middle of the middle pew I would have gotten up and left. Come to think of it....I wish I had. No, I never saw the apologies, but I will go look for them now. Thank you. I sincerely appreciate it. :)

Teen Looks Forward to Nursing Career From what I understand the TWI marketing department is working overtime trying to get as much publicity for their kids as possible. These kinds of stories are not all that common among the "common" non TWI folks.... <_< wonder why.....

Or you can text message your vote and those always go through. I do have a funny story about that, though. Last season I voted for Bo Bice a bit and during each show I would program his number to text message into my address book. I would hit "Bo" and then hit send or something like that....anyway....my boss's name is Bill and his number is directly above "Bo" in my address book. I came into work one morning after the show and he asked me what the heck I had been drinking last night and why I text messged him "Vote" over and over and over again. I've since come up with a better system....

I can't speak from experience, but from what I recall reading and observing here through the years, the offshoots were considered something like a "halfway house" for people who left TWI, especially those who were unjustly kicked out. Sort of like "TWI Light", if you will. Those people who still subscribe to TWI doctrine and who are more comfortable with the "familiar-ness" of the organization are generally the ones who are attracted to the offshoots. Soome people who leave TWI and move to the offshoots find that the group IS too much like TWI for them or they start having the same questions they had about the doctrine and practices of the group and end up leaving. Most of those have had their share of drama and soap operas, some very similar to TWI's. I'm not saying they are bad or good. It's not for me, but it does meet the needs of some people. I like having many choices of things to get involved with. I like having a "building" and not having to scrounge around for places to hold big meetings. I like a lot of "church" things that these kinds of groups can't provide. I like knowing where my money is going and how it's being spent. :) Success is a relative term and would vary according to the person asked. Apparently they are doing well enough for them to have people living nicely off the money of those who attend and their overhead is very low because of the "home" aspect. They do help some people and would probably tell you that "size doesn't matter" And it doesn't. My church is relatively small, especially for a thriving area like Orlando. Just my two cents.

"The value of the counterfeit is increased by its likeness to the original" "They (false ministers) give you just enough truth to get your trust and then they proceed to corrupt and destroy you with their lies." These are things I remember from DTA. Sounds like we were being warned by vee pee that that's what he was doing.... <_< When I looked back at all they taught us about false ministers and "seed boys" it seems that those teachings are describing vee pee and lcm to a "t".

And craiggers added to that by calling vee pee the MOG and then proceeded to compare himself to Joshua and all the other "2nds" in the Bible.... <_<

MMMmmmmmm Samoas and Thin Mints and Peanutbutter Patties and.... well, yeah, I like them all!! And, no, you can't get anything that good anywhere else, imo. Thank goodness they are sold only once a year!! This year, though, I just gave the girls $25 to purchase and ship to the troops. My waistline was not prepared to handle the temptations in the house - especially since I have no one there to blame the disappearing cookies on. :D

Mike, I respectfully ask you to withdraw from this conversation so we don't get relegated to the Soap Opera section of the forums.

Funny how he didn't mind the racial slurs and jokes....'chocolate salty balls, anyone?" Funny how he didn't mind the Jewish slurs and jokes..... Funny how he didn't mind the bathroom humor..... Funny how all of a sudden he got upset about Scientology.... Funny how he's going to be giving up a bunch of money, regret his decision and come back..... Hhhhmmmm...................

I do get the Way Rag (surprisingly) and yes, my ex was a sniper and SWAT team member for the county, an Air patrolman and other "special" ops.....so, yes, I've seen "other" magazines on a pretty consistent basis....but for "research" only.....have to know what "the enemy" is up to, you know? ;)

LOL! Thank goodness for barber shops! I went home not too long ago and, after pumping gas, was behind a very stoned college student in line.....was soooooo tempting to ask him for information about prices and....well...you know....how they grow it nowadays...

Ron, you never cease to amuse me. Vixen never has gas. She's been on Eukanuba since she was a baby, though. She gets crystals in her urine when she eats the neighbors cat food, but other than that, she's pretty safe. Doobie, my chow/golden retriever, now he was a different story. LOTS of gas! Smelly, sometimes very loud gas..... When I was dating I would usually fix a nice dinner for that special someone and invariably Doobie would crawl under my chair and procede to fart loud, smelly farts throughout the dinner. :blink: When I tried to explain/blame him for the awful smell and sounds coming from my general vicinity it was met with, "yeah, sure it's the dog" looks. <_< I had to come up with a Plan B cause I could never teach him to fart on cue so I could prove it was him.....

Happy Birthday, Hopefull!!! You are very loved!! And in our thoughts and prayers for a wonderful birthday!!

Where'd you go, ck? You haven't given up on us, have you? :)

Here, Dooj, have some wet naps, they work much better on those ribs...they're so tender!! I think we're all saying the same thing. Pity the others let us down, CW. But we're having fun and eating well, aren't we? It's nice that the scriptures say we're supposed to live righteously once we've been made righteous, but it does seem as though IF one chooses not to do so, that they do lose that state of righteousness and are held accountable to that behavior throughout eternity. I think, like you said, MO, that it is not believed by TWIts and that they obviously have no fear of God or having to face consequences for their actions. Which, makes me question how someone so evil can have been made righteous to begin with. But that's not what the Bible says. They've returned to their vomit and can't possibly be righteous and inherit the kingdom of God or any rewards that may be associated with it. My doctrinal skills aren't very sharp. That's why I've posted the scriptures I've found that might be ones used if the PFAL adherents were to join the discussion and actually try to answer the question. I guess I've been playing Devil's Advocate. :) Those verses still don't negate the original scripture in question. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God, but having a drink and being a drunkard are too different things, it appears. Which also negates the Big X's and Little X's vee pee taught about..... <_< Speaking of beer....I've got some over here. NASCAR just isn't the same without a nice cold beer. The pizza should be coming out soon, too....

Excellent questions, Chas! I'll try to not write a book. :D I started out excited about the things I was learning and shared with everyone whether they seemed interested or not. Then, I began noticing those who were avoiding me and, according to what I was taught, dismissed them as being not interested in THE truth. Then, they became ignorant and wallowing in said ignorance. I detested them for rejecting the Word. I corrected people left and right - such as my boss who was showing off her brand new, beautiful cross necklace she got for Christmas. :blink: Not wise.... I became an outspoken total b1tch to be around. I argued with a co-worker about adultery being 'spiritual adultery' and having nothing to do with sex. :o Paul Bro*ks used to always say that the more Word you knew the more black & white the world became. We believed him. You were one of "us" - a potential one of "us" - or a rejector of God. And were treated as such. When I started evaluating things from WayDale, I realized how wrong I was and how un-Jesus like I was in my behavior. I was never raised to discriminate in any way shape or form. It had been an uncomfortable time for me to be judgemental, but I was trying so hard to do things "right". The conflict came when I really admired, respected and wanted to spend more time with those people TWI would expect me to shun. I started hiding my friendships with these people - gay, Jewish, Baptists, poor people with no teeth, etc. I didn't want my husband to forbid me to see them. I went out of my way to make sure he didn't get to meet them. At work they called him my "probation officer" and I had to call to get "permission" to go out with them for drinks after work. Eventually, I just started lying to him about having to work late because he wouldn't let me go. I took a new job and two men in my new department were - gasp - gay! My ex wanted me to quit my job! I refused and they are two of the most valuable friends I have. They've done more for me in the way of friendships than anyone in TWI ever did (except maybe my first HFCs). Now? Now, I am not afraid to ask people what they think and what they believe. I'm not afraid to hear something that maybe I don't agree with right away. I listen first, ask questions and even if I don't agree, we still continue to be friends and don't judge each other on the basis of those things. What a concept!! What freedom!! What a bevy of friendships I've started building because of losing that part of my TWIt brain. It may have been a slow process that took place during the five years I was trying to save my marriage and exit TWI. I can't say for sure. I know that once I was free from TWI and my overbearing husband, that it seemed to be a "snap" change back to who I was before TWI. Of course, that also meant that I was 25 emotionally in many, many ways. It was just way more comfortable to take people at face value. To appreciate what uniqueness they had; how they made me feel (yes, feelings!) and what mutual admiration we had for each other. I'm much less lonely than I was in TWI and I think I can see the spectrum of people, situations and life more as a rainbow, if you will and so many things aren't black & white, but rather "different" and maybe interesting to me, but also maybe some things aren't necessarily "bad" or "black" - just not of interest or worth my time. I can see how others may love those things, but I don't hate them or cut them out of my life because of it. I'm also very, very tolerant and accepting of the stupid things people do knowing what stupid things I did and how much I hurt people over the past 10 years. When I start getting cocky, I remember my mother crying telling me about how left out she was during my wedding planning and wedding itself. I remember my dad getting teared up about the major conflict they had when trying to decide whether it would be worth shelling out $10,000 minimum to have me kidnapped and "deprogrammed". They decided they didn't want to risk me getting so p1ssed about it that they lost me completely. They chose to have me in their life even if I was only partially there than to risk losing me forever. :( No, I've done way more to harm people, especially those I love, than I think they could ever do to me. So who am I to judge anyone these days? (except maybe those who do continue to promote TWI doctrine, but only because I know how harmful and detrimental it is.)