Belle

ck, may I suggest that you take a logic or debate class? It will teach you how to organize your thoughts, present your case, the proof for what you believe to be true and how to intelligently answer questions about your case and the proof that you've presented. :) You have yet to address any of the questions we've asked of you. You have yet to acknowledge anything that we've said. Just spouting verses and quoting vee pee does none of that and, furthermore, leaves the impression that you can't think for yourself. You're limited to parrotting what you've been taught word for word. Quit saying "Polly want a cracker" and start putting some thought and some reasoning behind your words.

You just gotta "take it on faith", Oakspear. Which, is why I think I'm probably agnostic....leastways, I am today. The thing with prayer is, which I believe Oakspear already said, that when prayer are "answered" - it's from God. When prayers aren't answered there's a whole host of excuses and reasons why the prayers weren't answered and not one of them is clear and simple. It's my fault. It was the wrong prayer. I prayed wrong. I was "out of alignment & harmony". I haven't forgiven so and so...... So much of what's taught today is "take it on faith, brutha" and I just ain't that keen on that being enough proof for me that what's being taught is correct. I believe in a God, partly because I"m afraid NOT to. But I look at the world, the universe, earth, our own bodies and think there MUST be something greater, some reason, some something..... but I seriously doubt that it's the God that's taught in churches today - regardless of the religion.

Skyrider, This really hits home for me. One couple, whom I love dearly, have been sold out TWIts and continue to support TWI despite some horrendous treatment, evil "suggestions" from Moynihan and knowing that there are things wrong with what and how TWI teaches. I could write a book on the injustices to this family alone. Thing is, the wife, according to TWI standards, was a stay at home mom and then stay at home wife. She worked at the limb under Moynihan for a while but, when she needed to have surgery, she had to sign up with a temp agency and try to get a job that she could work at long enough to get health insurance benefits so that they could afford for her to have the surgery. They had little to nothing in retirement when I left TWI. HECK, they didn't even have a savings account! The husband is self-employed and rather stubborn about not working for anyone else. They live decently enough, but practically everything they own is a hand me down from his clients or garage sale type stuff. AND it's all living paycheck to paycheck. He had to have his gall bladder removed and at that time they had just paid off the balance of the hospital bill. Self employed, no insurance, no savings, no retirement, no permanent home.....failing health, approaching early 60's. I wonder what kind of lifestyle they are going to be able to have living off Social Security only....especially if they were one of the ones who waived SS withholdings for years according to TWI suggestion. :unsure:

:) Sending good thoughts, energy and prayers your way, seeme!

HAPPIEST OF BIRTHDAYS TO YOU!!! I remember when you were posting and still involved with TWI. If I remember correctly you were one of the ones who were spied on and ratted out by the WAYGB prior to your exit from all things TWI. I learned a lot from your posts and you gave me strength and resolve to keep fighting and to keep posting, if for no other reason, than to p1ss the WAYGB off by having another "innie" unintimidated and afraid to post. Happening Day, Dude!

May I offer you a danish or some fresh fruit? :) I'm sure Raf will be by with the coffee in a bit.

I've been wanting to post on here but have more in my head than time to type. I will preface what I'm about to say with the disclaimer that my views and thoughts change on a daily, sometimes hourly basis. I'm still trying to figure life out and sort through things and as I learn more, I think more and change more. I identify all too well with the things Bramble, LG, Oak, Sudo and, especially George have posted. I was raised Southern Baptist and, like any good Southerner, was there every time the doors were opened and I really liked it. That is, I liked the activities and the friendships and the companionship. I eventually left the church and quit going because I was totally fed up with the hipocracy that I saw. I then looked into all sorts of things: past lives, numerology, tarot, runes, wicca, hindu, etc. Nothing "clicked" with me and some of it was over my head at the time and I didn't really have anyone to talk to about it...especially the Dead Sea Scrolls, which I desperately wanted to learn more about. Then TWI and, well, that would pretty much turn anyone off from God - I mean who wants to worship a God like that and a God who allows the flock to be raped and abused like that? And then I look at those who post on here who follow people around the boards attacking them and contributing nothing to conversations but insults, slander and viciousness. Definitely not the God (or church) I want to have anything to do with. I went back to my original questions: looking at the history of Christianity, of religions and cultures, the formation of different beliefs and really looking at these so-called answered prayers and the inconsistent and illogical reasons why things don't work the way they say they will when confronted about it. I've come to the conclusion that there is most likely "something" out there greater than us, but I haven't really gotten a clear picture of what that "something" is. Stephen Hawking talks about the Big Bang Theory and religious people get offended before they even consider that he also says we don't know who or what caused the big bang and he doesn't rule out any spiritual entity such as a God being involved. *Shrug* - I go to church every once in a while, but will never be involved completely and totally again with a church, I feel. I just don't believe in a God who has all these rules and hoops that people have to jump through. I don't believe that God wants us accountable to anyone but Him. Did you know that every single culture on the planet has a "flood story" in their history? Every one - no matter what the core beliefs....maybe there's something to that, but who the he11 are we to say that Christianity is THE way and that all the others are wrong? I just plain don't know, so I'm not willing, at this point, to commit myself to Christianity - especially since I find so many other cultures and beliefs to be so much more humanitarian and actively living what most Christians just talk about. Their logic is anything BUT logical, imo. edited to try to shorten

Is this the ABS they've collected? Or is it spread out across other categories as well? Interesting that it's only grown by 7%. What are the average returns on investments these days for something like that? I know my personal 401K grew about 14%, but I don't know how that compares. I wonder if the medical increase is because they were told by the lawyers that they should start providing healthcare insurance for the staff. Given how cheap they were with elective treatments and other things that perhaps TWI deemed "unnecessary". It is a sham, Goey, as you said that they have all that money and couldn't find any way to pay for Mrs. Wierwille?

Linda, My golden/chow mix used to eat Gravy Train. He loved it and I didn't always make it "gravy" so that it was extra special when it was. My dog now is on Eukanuba and that's what most of the breeders I know use. At Pet Supermarket you can get on their 'frequent flier' club and you get a free bag after buying 10 bags. If you sign up the system is supposed to keep up with it, so there's no cards to get punched or receipts to have to save. Also, ifyou have dog shows in your area, they are always set up in a booth as is Pedigree and they have incredible sales there because those folks at dog shows spend ridiculous amounts of money on their dogs.

Goey, it's so good to see you back. :) I have always enjoyed, respected and learned from your posts. ck, you can really learn a lot here if you'll take that chip off your shoulder. ;)

OMG! I'm speechless....

I honestly don't have enough information. It seems, on the surface, pretty discriminatory. I may be stupid, but are these loans? What are the women signing up for when they sign up? If it wasn't clear that this was a condition when they went to school, then it's really no different from vee pee and craiggers changing the things required for and expected from the Way Corps.

Hey, Oen, what are some of your favorite small, local wineries? I LOVE Lakeridge Winery here in Clermont, FL. I take people there for their first time every chance I get. If you go at the right times, you can visit with the folks giving out samples and get A LOT of samples. ;) Other times they have awesome jazz festivals, art festivals and the annual STOMPING OF THE GRAPES. Now, that's a blast!!! But don't wear shoes you're extremely protective of. ;) There's lots of kids who get into it, but lots of adults, too!

HAPPIEST OF BIRTHDAYS TO YOU DEK!! You bring a lot to this place. I'm so glad you grace us with your presence! I hope your Birthday is just as awesome as it can be.

Yep. It's on the Living Sanctified "Class" that they put on tapes. Mornings were Moses and evenings were "be not unequally yoked" which, imo, was a huge push toward TWI becoming more and more isolated from family, friends and the world in general.

I reckon there's something there, Mo. I didn't consider that. I suppose it's much like how a child raised in an extremely abusive home will still love and defend the parents no matter how rotten and evil they were because it's all they've known.

We've been paying THE middleman?

Mo, you are one classy lady! I'm thoroughly enjoying reading this stuff about your church. My best friend and next door neighbor in middle school & jr. high was Mormon. We never talked about the actual religion much, but I did LOVE it when the elders came over to visit - we'd play pool and Yahtzee and other game with them. Thank you for your patience and willingness to share.

SafariVista, this would be completely in the realm of what they would do. Heck, they've done way more outlandish things than that with regards to people posting on here. Pretty pathetic, isn't it? TWIts: What on earth would you care about people posting on here if you actually were a legit religious group? Why on earth would people posting about you on the Internet bug you so much if your group was "beyond reproach"? Does it not strike you as "odd" that they track, trace and snoop around on folks? Mebbee it is JR - if so - Looking forward to reading how many classes and new folks are coming and sticking around. Can't wait to hear about how "transparent" the organization has become so that folks aren't kept in the dark anymore.

It's a small world after all. It's a small world after all. It's a small world after all. It's a small, small world.... How wild is that? Yeppers, he'll be seeing in real life how gracious and wonderful you are and how things really are okay after midnight. :P I was flying out of Orlando one morning with my dog and the guy in front of me in the security line was playing with her. We started talking and eventually he said something about his brother going to some seminary in Gunnison, CO. I asked if it was The Way and he was shocked that I knew about them. I told him a bit about me and about Greasespot and he was relieved. He has always thought it was a cult and was relieved to find out that I agreed with him. We had a great conversation and went our separate ways. Small world, indeed. :)

Very poignant, CW. :) I think what this boils down to is the black & white thinking that we learned in TWI. Something is good or it's bad - there is no gray. HOWEVER, if you look at "truth" in TWI with the same regard for "in the context" - yes, it contains truth, but in the same way that a counterfeit dollar bill contains some "true" materials found in the real deal. When one steps back so that they can see the forest for the trees - they can look at the big picture - the whole context within which that truth is packaged, it is clearly no longer truth, but fake and harmful. The devil spoke the truth, but the truth that he spoke was spoken in such a way as to harm people. Because of the "context" in which that truth was delivered. How "true" many of those truths are actually debatable, as well. ;) To me, PFAL and TWI doctrine is like a sh1t cluster with a few diamonds in it somewhere. Sure there may be diamonds in there, but do you really want to go to the trouble of digging them out? Wouldn't you rather go to the place down the street where the diamonds aren't encrusted and where you can get them easily and freely?

The chairs are more comfortable, does that count? I'm sure ricky hasn't checked back in because he's desperately trying to find something good to report. *snicker*

So would Krispy Kreme stock, Chas.

Yeppers! But, I'm with Moony - am not annoying! I can't be annoying, can I? Most definitely not annoying. No way - no how. Right? Moony, I don't think you're annoying at all! Come sit by me and we can talk about rearranging Christmas ornaments and dog stuff. BOWTWI - You do NOT have a cool exterior. You're cool, but in no way do you come across as unapproachable or distant. Cheesecake would have been my choice if that was on the list. Wonder what that one would be....

HEY! Who stole my brownie? *grabs another THREE to replace the one ^_^ I've got some really good punch to share, too. I may have too much time on my hands, but I was really thinking about this and how, for some people, GSpot is a take it or leave it kind of place, and for others, it's a terrific "hang out" and support group of people who've been there - done that - got the t-shirt. I think needs and individual preferences has something to do with it, but I also think, to a greater proportion, you get out of it what you put into it. The people who come here and actively engage, support and receive support see GSpot as a vital part of their healing, recovery and it becomes a heck of a lot more than that as we do make friends, we start swapping e-mails, reconnect with people and have fun. Then GSpot becomes so much more to us. It is our "Cheers", if you will, but it's more than that, imo, if you want it to be. Toppie, so glad you left that woodwork to come play with us! This is the best dang twig I've ever known.