Belle

Thanks, Mo. You said it better than I could have. :) All LCM did was put in writing and "formal" documented teachings what he learned from vee pee... Thisis the same stuff that vee pee taught - it's just now documented in craiggers' class and, I suspect, in the "new" class they've just come out with. I put on Penguin's post a list of all the segments from the "foundational" class and it's clear as it can be that JC and God had nothing to do with TWI. JC was a means to an end - that end being SIT and "power" - nothing more, nothing less....

So, what's the deal, Betty??? Are you gonna post and run to post under another name? Why do you ask? Why does everyone have to be as deceptive as you are? Why can't Paw be one, like the rest of us, who stands behind his posts and what he says? Who else are you? Why do you think you know something the rest of us don't - or don't believe? So, what's the deal, Betty??? Are you gonna post and run to post under another name? Why do you ask? Why does everyone have to be as deceptive as you are? Why can't Paw be one, like the rest of us, who stands behind his posts and what he says? Who else are you? Why do you think you know something the rest of us don't - or don't believe?

Then quit praising the man who utterly destroyed their trust in God by raping them and destroying their lives. And furthermore, quit pretending to have all the answers and that just "trusting God" is the answer to everything. That's what you do, ck..... and we can all see you're full of sh1t ---- at least the grifter could quote verses and expound on them to get what he wants....you can't even do that....you're no charlatan, but your not helpful Christian taking care of his brothers and sisters in Christ, either.... You're just a parrot with no help, no love and no value to those who are truly hurt.

God's not here physically....how shall they hear without a preacher, ck? How are YOU going to teach them to have that comfort from God when they are so far gone....so far hurt that they can't hear God?? How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? Romans 10:14 How can they trust and listen to you when you insist on adding the "IF" qualifier to their already proven hurt with plenty of witnesses to back their story? Jam 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be [ye] warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what [doth it] profit? Without just spouting verse at them, ck, HOW can you help them??? Without any real, true dialog and loving concern, HOW are you going to help them overcome their hurt? HOW are you going to help them by thanking God for the man who raped them - destroyed their lives and utterly ruined any trust in God that they so wanted?? How do you heal the hurts from a verifiable alcoholic? From a verifiable abuser? From a verifiable Dr Jeckyll / Mr Hyde who CLAIMED to speak for God, but rather was a wolf in sheep's clothing?? How do you do that, CK? How do you defend such a man and still mend the hearts of God's kids?? Don't just quote a bunch of Bible Verses - those mean nothing to folks who believed those verses when vee pee also used them to get them into the back of his motorcoach so he could rape them.....

Discerning of Spirits: Prov 6:19 False witness moves the doctrines of devils Always dividing people whether it’s in terms of religioun or race, ethnic distinctions; always whipping up prejudices and hatreds….greatest amount of evil in cultures is concentration religion and politics because that’s where there’s the greatest amount of power and money…. hmmmm…..interesting considering the source, no? The headband in AOS represents the doorstop to the mind. THEY don’t show themselves as sowing discord – the Bible shows you that These attributes aren’t technically manifestations like ours are, but they are definitely indications and characteristics… Proud Look Lying Tongue Shed Innocent Blood Devise Wickedness Run to mischief False witness Sow discord They can be the most gracious, ethical appearing people…. Love of money is the root system of all evil and from the root system you’ll have a jungle of enticements and bondage built up. lust for possessions – That’s something that gets people, especially young people, there are plenty of people very willing to entice you to get you indentured to them. So don’t get enticed. Oung people should listen to good advisers in the Lord, and they’ll teach you how toe live within your means. God can supply your needs. Don’t go in debt! Possessions are a bribe. It’s living a lie – giving the impression you are living at a level you can’t afford. Fear of future – The antitode to fear is the Word of God. Quit being afraid and maybe possessions won’t tempt you so much. If all you’re thinking about is your debt, you’re imprisoned. Get out of it. Believe God; get honest;admit your error……until you admit your broken fellowship, there’s no forgiveness The greatest amount of insanity in this world is money. It’s lust – If you can’t admit you’re wrong you’ll NEVER get forgiveness. Gambling – The way some people handle investments, they might as well be gambling. You’re to invest in something you believe in; the greatest dividends are in abundant sharing Religion – runs on bribery The love of money ties you in knots so you can’t operate. You’re not going to operate revelation when you’re in debt. You can if you acknowledge your sin and take care of the cause by getting humble, getting focuses and attacking that debt. We live in a culture of debt, but we have to rise above it. Like physical sickness – get rid of the symptoms and then tackle the cause……

Spiritual Emotions Emotions are part of the body-soul. JC had emotions – he wept; he had joy he showed frustration, disgust and disappointment. There is a category of revelation in terms of inner-essence emotional states. …. And some emotions are not God-inspired and we’re never to use God as an excuse when we just want to fly off the handle. See LCM and vee pee’s tirades as examples of that But at time, too, it is God working mightily in a man or a woman. JC looked around on them with anger (mark 3:5) Who inspired that anger? JC always did the father’s will. The word says God is angry with the wicked day by day (Ps 7:11) We’re not in a constant state of anger, but a times in life, that’s the fuel….We stay on the word and it stays in us. The greastest way to get a feel of it is to just read the word. At timesyou are right to be angry. That anger is to be used to dismantle the works of the adversary….everyone manifess it in their own unique manner. John 2:13-15 There are plenty of times emotions work for you when you learn to discipline your mind and walk properly for the father. Those emotional states are what puts the color and fire in life when they are in proper sequen ce – the body holding the same relationship to reason as reason does to the spirit. You always control them so that you’re on the word… John 2;15 Jc DROVE THEM OFF! He Had some energy of conviction and the guts and love to do it. The word is how you learn about revelation – the word is revelation Herod executed all the young boys two years and younger…it wasn’t Go’s fault…. God could have warned everybody there, but the place was spiritually dull because they were not living sanctified. God saved the child because Joseph, head of the household, received the warning…. Re: Eli – 1 Sam 2:28,29 Eli was responsible to confront or correct his sons, or he would be considered as guilty as his sons. The principle carries over to the household today. We are to keep it clean and protect the household from infiltration…..Being born of the seed of Belial, they would have been very charming, slick, sophisticated….they should have known how to tweak their father properly to keep him from really taking a stand. Eli’s treachery opens his whole bloodline to this kind of spirit infiltration. God doesn’t do it directly; he’s simply telling him the consequences of his disobedience, not only on Eli but his progeny after him. “I wil visit the sins of the fathers to the third and fourth generations….” That means those families from each generation will be so contaminated by devil-spirit infiltration that it will just get worse and worse unot the following generations….We don’t just affect ourselves and those that live with us…we also affect subsequent generations…. Fear about leaving “the household of God”???? I’ll say!!! Revelation was rare (1 Sam 3:1) God oviously can give it very openly and beautifully to those that walk. But if you’re not going to walk according to the Bible, ifyou’re going to put other things above God, then god is not going to work in you to will and do of His good pleasure….No revelation, no impartation, no signs and wonders and so, no deliverance for the folks. Slothfulness is a great key to the spirit of slumber where they go numb. They don’t see anything – something is terribly wrong, but they don’t get excited about it; they don’t want to confront it; they let it go an rationalize and justify. Obviously Eli did all that. Eli violated Eccl 9:10 – Prov 3.27 – It’s sin to withhold God’s best when you’ve got access to carry it out. How ‘bout them apples, Bob & Dottie????? Sound familiar???? How you ignored people who came to you with concerns and women who were terribly hurt and abused by vee pee and craiggers????[/b]

Paula Butler. She was a very longtime staffer at HQ (in Safety and on Switchboard). She was a good friend, and I know she moved to Texas after basically being booted from Gunnison staff. Thanks!!!

Woo Hoo!!! Happy Birthday!!! And to Z who will never foget this beautiful, memorable birthday of her very own!!

Beautiful, Mark. Thanks...

:unsure: Maybe someone Tookit? Probably in that music, movies, etc. section? Did someone quote a verse? It may have been moved to the dungeon.....

(((((Rascal))))) I think he's just Mike using a new handle.....it's okay....deep breath!! If he's not he either won't be around long because the truth is too blinding and hard to fight. OR he'll come to his senses if he just takes a little time to look around and seriously consider the actions and horrible doctrinal error we were taught. It's all good.....good for us to tell him again what the lurking innies need to hear - and there are LOTS of them.... I know. ;) They just contact me privately instead of on the boards because they HAVE read about the WAYGB and they believe that because they KNOW its standard m.o. for TWI despite all the promises of being "kinder and gentler".

It’s impossible to think two thoughts at one time; therefore you have that manifestation of the supernatural to your awareness. You’re aware of the SIT, a language you don’t know, in your mind; but that’s not the cognizant, reasoning part of your mind, because at the same time you’re SIT and being fully aware of it. You can be picturing who you are praying for, so you’re not having two cognitive thoughts at one time. .. The part of your understanding that’s unfruitful when you SIT is that part where reasoning is done… ****************** Even in the Promised Land they had their boundaries, the land flowing with milk and honey. Each of the 12 (organizational perfection) tribes had their set boundaries; the milk and honey flowed according to the boundaries that God set by revelation….they had legal rights to the land, but they still had to go claim it. It’s like that with holy spirit, all these abilities are packaged and given to us, but we each must learn to claim the effects produced, claim the profit by operating them believingly. ****************** The inner essence is spirit behind all those frameworks and systems of the human body….you start building in your mind in terms of these manifestations of revelation the perspective that this whole inner man is one big receiving station….we have the mind of Christ and that’s where it registered spiritually and then communicates to our awareness. All of that is dependent upon our walk in the light. If I’m out of fellowship, then all this is negated until I line my thoughts back up with the written word. ****************** God is not going to violate his word to energize manifestations in you. If you don’t keep his commandments and obey then the manifestation of his will in these specific categories will not open up. ******************

Manifestations according to TWI - These are non-plagiarized excerpts from the advanced class syllabus: The manifestations are presented as a unit within the functioning household. You have to be within a functioning household for these manifestations to work to their fullest maturity. That’s why it’s all of our responsibility to keep the household clean. 1 Cor. 4:7,8 You don’t have the power of the manifestations because “ye have reigned as kings without us” – In other words, YOU have not obeyed what WE AS THE RULING MINISTRIES HAVE TAUGHT YOU, and you think you’re reigning as kings. “I would to God ye did reign” – tongue in check. He’s disgusted. Well, God is disgusted….it’s the word of God. v. 10 – “ye are strong” – Sarcasm – Yeah, you really prevail. 1 Cor. 5:1,2 They were proud of their sexual immorality. Some people think grace means you can do anything you want. They think that indicates their freedom in Christ. That’s practical error. IRONIC, NO??? 1 Cor 5:3-7,9 He’s concerned about the whole lump because it’s a household. One rotten apple spoils the whole bunch. One bit of contamination makes the whole thing rancid. 1 Cor 6:5,6 They’re not solving their own problems within the framework of the household. They’re running to the outside realm and that’s practical error. 1 Cor 6:11,12 You’ve got to put them outside the household and into the adversary’s realm. You’ve got to put them outside the walls of the camp – outside the walls of protection. It can get people’s attention. And folks never in TWI II wonder why we were afraid to leave TWI… 1 Cor 9:4-6 Don’t we deserve a little help by giving you the word? They all think they’re smarter than the leaders…. 1 Cor 9:10 -13 They’re being confronted on abundant sharing. You finance other situations, what about those that teach the word?? 1 Cor 10:9-12 He’s confronting them for talking about Paul and leadership behind their backs; they are falling prey to idolatrous practices. 1 Cor 12:1 He’s ready NOW to talk to them about spiritual matters – this section will never open up if they don’t obey the previous stuff. If you expect the true God to energize the gift in you as you believe, you’ve got to walk sanctified and life righteously, and then this magnificent section of the manifestations opens up so that you can see what is the administration of this great mystery

I sorta get confused when folks get upset because something that has come to public knowledge after being buried for eons is discounted because it's "new". I also don't get it since now it's so much easier to get access to and learn about these older writings....Heck, many of us are just now really delving into other historical writings that have been around for ages..... Why dismiss something just because it's "new to you"? Given the highly influential political climate of the past, couldn't there be "ulterior motives" to what's in the Bible vs. what was subverted and kept from the public eye? It seems that some folks get offended when their precious Bible and the integrity thereof is questioned.... especially using other writings as old as, if not older, than the writings of the Bible <_< Here's what we were taught in TWI about Judas hanging himself.... Page 151 - ff in the blue book: Judas was not only alive at the time of the crucifixion, but he saw the resurrected Christ and was withnes to the ascension. 1 Cor 15:3-5 Acts 1:9-11 vee pee says is when the twelve watched JC ascend, but then sometime between v.9 and v.11 Judas left the group....hence the "ye men of Galilee...." vee pee says "hanged himself" implies to the western mind that he literally took his own life by hanging, but according to the Eastern custom - using Saul falling upon his own sword as the method of hanging for government, military personnel. It's called hanging because they suspended themselves on pointed objects.... quoting v. 16-18 vee pee says that "purshased a field" is really the word "provided" like in Matt 10:9 - meaning that he provided for himself a feild with the reward of iniquity... "field" being chorion meaning "property". vee pee says, "Most people believe that his reward of iniquity was the thirty pieces of silver which can't be true because he cast them down in the temple." John 12:6 - he says describes Judas as a theif.... that he was stealing money from the money bag... The field was called "aceldama" the field of blood because that's where he hanged himself. BUT - BUT - BUT in JC our Passover, he calls this hanging of Judas meaning Judas was "hanged with guilt" - not having anything at all to do with death. I lost the custody of that book in the divorce, but I remember it because it contradicts this from the blue book and even has a picture of Judas doubled over with grief at what he did. ****** Goey, thanks for the link. I'm going to read it and I als want to read Mary's, too....I've got the Gnostic Gospels by Elaine Pagels and have been reading Harry Potter instead, but I'm ready to delve back into this stuff, I reckon. :) I appreciate the links. I also appreciate the civilized discussion despite Mo's unrequieted love continuing to throw rotten fruit salad into the pot and pulling on her pigtails.

Penguin, I thought a lot about this when I left. In fact, I bought a cross as soon as my ex moved out because I saw, from attending church, where Christians really do use it as a reminder of what was done for them...the ultimate sacrifice....it's so much deeper to them than TWI taught because they actually have a personal relationship with their Lord and Savior - he's not a means to an end for them...he really is a brother, a savior, a confidant and so much more. I got out my WAP syllabus to see some stuff on fear for AmazingGrace in the dungeon and was just looking through it.... the first segment is about "getting to a standard of truth" - the Bible Segment 2 - Trusting God by trusting the Bible Segment 3 - The stability of our times - the Bible Segment 4 - The subject of the word of God - Jesus, but how you have to see him in your study and veneration of The Bible - and how Jesus did the same thing Segment 5 - Keys to interpreting the Bible - Segment 6 - In the beginning and how God's word is as much God as God is God - not written for the unbeliever - yep - the focus - the Bible Segment 7 - The face of the deep - just more Bible Segment 8 - God prepares the earth - "bringing our thinking up to the level of the" Bible Segment 9 - Formed, made created - learning proper interpretation of the Bible Segment 10 - Knowledge of good and evil - learning from the Bible Segment 11 - The first sin of mankind - extreme perversion of the Bible Segment 12 - The greatest principle in all of life: Believing....based on the Bible Segment 13 - Believing; the endurance of Job as seen in the Bible Segment 14 - Spiritual integrity - living according to the Bible Segment 15 - True endurance - Job's endurance learned in the Bible Segment 16 - Adminstrations in the Bible Segment 17 - Grace administration in the Bible Segment 18 - Musterion - the mystery of speaking in tongues and holy spirit in the Bible Segment 19 - Born again of God's spirit from the Bible - Jesus is mentioned merely as the means to the end of getting born again so you can have that holy spirit power Segment 20 - Building up the spirit - speaking in tongues as taught in the Bible Segment 21 - The compeition - "emotions come and go"...your focus should be on the Bible Segment 22 - Your sonship rights as documented in the Bible - your power, you - you - you Segment 23 - Valiant for the truth - standing on the Bible in the household of God Segment 24 - Walking in fellowship - never leaving the household of God cause it says in the Bible bad things will happen if you don't Hmmmm......I don't see much about Jesus or God in this FOUNDATIONAL class... <_<

Mark 11:23, 24 “doubt” – the first step down is doubt, then worry, then fear and it issues in unbelief “believe that ye receive..” – Jesus is teaching to believe – not make excuses. Jesus was more concerned about living the word than making friends Fear is from wrong teaching or ignorance pistis – faith or believing Believing in action – the majority of the ways it’s translated – most of the time pistis should be translated “believing” Faith of JC – the bridge spiritually between God and man Family Faith – The standard of STAYING IN THE HOUSEHOLD OF THE BELIEVERS Manifestation of believing – special category of believing in the holy spirit field Faithfulness fruit – fruit of the spirit that you develop by operating the manifestations of the spirit. Romans 4:19-21 Faith in the OT should be translated “faithfulness” “staggered not” – How did Abraham get fully persuaded? By speaking, confessing in his heart and confessing with his actions – this is the synchronized life. Not that you ignore reality, rather consider the situation and decide to believe. You can be right about something and not handle it properly if you let fear in, and it turns all wrong, because fear is believing in reverse – wrong believing. This is where Job opened the door to his calamity. He wasn’t sure – he should have confronted his kids – instead he just “prayed and worried about it”. The adversary gets involved by the fear in the believer’s mind. Fear erodes, corrupts and eats holes in your believing. You’re never going to master the living of the word if it doesn’t start at home. let’s get tough in our minds – in a spiritual sense. Let’s get more disciplined in our thinking. The only justice is in God and his word and the household of God Why did Job get attacked so viciously when his sin didn’t deserve this kind of consequence? Because we have a personal adversary and if he can get through the hedge of somebody who has boldly stood and boldly spoken for God, the adversary will make it the worst. Get the doubt worry and fear out of your life so you can be more than a conqueror and not get cheated out of what you deserve in life. There’s no “chance” in life. You can beat any attack/fear if you want to.

Okay - I pullled out my WAP syllabus - this is craigger's class....the one that was just replaced and, since this is standard TWIt doctrine, I'm sure they're still teaching it.... My comments are in italics....the rest is typed using the vee pee form of non-plagarism.... The Greatest Principle in All of Life: Believing Believing is the greatest immutable law, standard, rule of action in life. Everyone believes something; everyone is convinced, fully persuaded about something. What we want as followers of the way who desire to live this way of abunance and power is to believe God, His word, to walk the steps of JC and to do the same works ... to do that, we ahve to believe like he believed. Heb 10:38 The only thing that pleases God is if you blieve him; and to believe him, you ahve to trust him and the integrity of his word. Heb 10:39 Luke 9:59-62 "bury my father" - oriental custom. The father was not dying or dead. The man used this cultural custom as an excuse to keep from responding to the call of God "let the dead bury their dead" imo, this is one of the digs TWI makes to keep people separated from their family and to put their kids, parents, friends and relatives second to what TWI wants of your life Fear always has excuses for not acting on the word "no man, having put his hand to the plough"....That's to shrink in fear. They're not fit, not adequate, not committed for God. To believe Negative - doubt worry fear - issues in unbelief Positive - confidence by learning the word - trust, faithfulness issues in believing Unbelief defeats the promises of God. All religion - traditions and philosophies of men - falls short, and all issue in doubt, worry, fear - unbelief Romans 12:11 - if you want to live the more abundant life, you've got to work at it. God says "this is truth" and that's what we're to get the confidence in, trust in and be faithful at....that issues in believing. Believing comes from the heart, which is a figure of speech for the part of the mind where the real honesty of your soul resides. In your heart is where you're fully persuaded...have to have single minded believing. Romans 10:10 - "with the heart the man believeth" YOU DON'T FOLLOW YOUR HEART! You determine your heart by your thought patterns which determine your believing and believing is the only way to please god. Believing is the way to abundance and power. Prov 23:7 - as he thinketh in his heart. You have two choices - you either believe positively or negatively - you're always going to believe something don't you sometimes just "not think" about something??? Negative - fear in believing - believing in reverse, wrong believing gives negative results Sin is always based on fear and brings fear. "Fear is the air the adversary breathes" That's his greatest device against your mind and he has mulitfarious ways that he disguises it: religion, religious ritual, man-made forms of worship. Filty rags - why "follow your heart" is wrong - selfish and ego covers fear - it's really fears Homos at some point all know it's wrong when they sell out & may sear their conscience with a hot iron - but they did, at one point, recognize that it's wrong. Unbridled lust never satisfies. You follow the word, put it on in your heart and believe. If someone wants to get delivered they have to get honest about the fear in their lives. You've got to determine what you do is wrong or what you do is right - it's your responsibility to determine what you think. You've got to be a competitor to believe the Bible. You take charge of your life if you want the way of abundance and power. You want to be a champion? You want to rise up to be more than a conqueror? You want to really walk like JC? This is the ministry for you. It has nothing to do with how god loves you; it has to do with, do you love him? We're getting down to where you live!!! Do you want excuses or do you want to live for God? to be continued

(((((Suda))))) I don't really have any great words of wisdom or any advice on how to reconcile the two beliefs in the house, but I can really relate to where Sudo is coming from. My experiences and thought processes are probably not very similar at all, but I think the frustration, anger and process of evaluation of what we were taught and always believed could have very similar parallels. When something is confusing or seems wrong to me, I don't just take a step back - I go all the way back to the beginning and start over. Doing that, imo, takes all the preconceived notions out of the picture so that what I'm looking at seems to be free from being tainted. Sudo, actually, brings a great deal of logic and food for thought to the board and I've benefitted from his "hard questions". What I did was go back to "OK, so I was raised Christian and to consider the Bible as very important - like a rule book and a "yearbook" of Christianity and God, if you will". Where did this book come from? How and why do we put so much stock into it? A friend introduced me to the book, "The Origin of Satan" which talks about where the devil came from in ancient history - not ancient Christianity - history. I looked at the "facts" we know about the Bible itself - not the things IN it, but the actual Bible. I looked at the Nag Hammadi Scrolls, the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Marcionites, the history of different religions and also their "sacred scrolls". I looked at historical mythology, the tales of other cultures, religions and the tales and foundations of those things. There's a lot of similarities....too many, imo, to ignore them and too many, imo, to come to the conclusion that Christianity and the God of Chrisitanity is the end all and be all of life and how we should believe and live. There's also still lots of contradictions and evil that's really hard to reconcile. A god who kills? A god who commands that people be killed? (The explanations from all the various Chrisitan religions, really doesn't sufficiently answer that for me. It sounds like kids trying to make up bogus excuses, to me) That being said, as I said on the agnostic thread Chas started - I'm afraid NOT to believe in God....a God...a supreme being of some sort. I just don't know, though. The alternative sounds pretty harsh, don't you think? And, on other days, I pull on the scriptures that I learned growing up - not from TWI, but from growing up and post-TWI. I do believe in "loving your neighbor as yourself" and I do believe in taking care of your fellow man. Religion? Bah! It's got too many holes in it for me. But in two hours, I may feel differently. It's a perpetual state of confusion for me.... Almost like a part of me wants to believe, but it just swells up cognitive dissonance since I really don't believe the Bible to be all it's cracked up to be and that's the basis for all Christianity. I've also read the book by the founder of skeptic.com - "Why People Believe Weird Things" - I started it out of interest in how easily I dropped believing in the Holocaust treachery merely because TWI said it didn't happen. It taught me a lot more about critical thinking and how folks can believe the most unbelieveable things. I've pretty much decided I don't know and I don't care that I don't know. I reckon whatever God tells me when I die, will be what my sentence is and if He doesn't exist, then, well....at least I didn't spend my life trying to please a god who wasn't ever going to be pleased with me anyway since he made us unable to live up to his expectations. p.s. these views are subject to change at a moment's notice.

Okay, David, I see your point and, I suppose if TWI hadn't been the major issue in our marriage the porn would quickly have become problem #1. :( I know a wee bit more about computers than he does, so even though he tried to hide his tracks, I knew he was lying about not doing it anymore. I'm not going to delve further into this since we know the WAYGB and the Moynihans monitor this site and I don't want to embarrass him anymore than I already have. I should have thought about that before I posted, but I really didn't see a problem with it when he including me. I got a PM from a lady who's too afraid to post, but she told me that her husband would stay up till the wee hours of the morning checking out porno sites. He would get all worked up sexually and then go to bed and rape her. She got to the point where she would sleep fully clothed - jeans, zippers, buttons, on everything to make it harder for him to access her body. Sex no longer was about two loving people, but rather about gratification and control. And we know TWI taught that the men were always in control.... ***** On another note regarding what I know about police departments: Most don't have the budget to spend on detectives. My ex's department detectives and officers who were supposed to be investigating, troubleshooting and trying to prevent crimes faced incredible budget shortfalls. Frequently overtime pay was cut 1/3 of the way through the year because of budget constraints. Sometimes it was just forbidden to work OT and other times they were allowed to accrue comp time. The problem with comp time is the officers were then able to take ungodly amounts of time away from work, which just made the problem worse, and the people available to work even more deficient. The parents are a HUGE issue with these things. So many parents just don't give a rip. They don't know the friends of their kids; the kids' last names much less who the parents are. You'd be surprised at how many parents don't know where their own kids go when they leave the house and they sure as heck don't want to spend time with the officers trying to help them when their kids get into trouble. My ex had a woman who's daughter was caught with men a great deal older than she was and they were smoking pot. They got busted and, this daughter was sleeping with these older men... (rape in my book, but not legally). When my ex took the daughter home and wanted to talk to the mother about it...out of concern for this girl's well-being...the mother asked him to hurry up because she needed to get to church. :unsure: Unfortunately I have way too many stories of parents like this and it would always bring him home in a bad/sad mood to see such horrible parental care, concern and oversight. This was in the poor sections of town just as much as it was in the rich sections. The problem with the rich sections of town was that those kids have more money and more resources to develop more serious problems more quickly. I think properly raising one's kids would be the biggest proactive way to avoid much of this. The problem is so many folks these days are quick to skirt any personal responsibility and to just leave it up to society to raise their kids. The church going crowd were the prime offenders second only to the drug addicts in my ex's experiences. I suppose that's yet one more reason why he was so adamant that TWI was the only "right" church. :(

The gay men I work with say the most vehemently anti-gay men they know are the ones they find on the sites where "straight" men are looking for gay encounters. <_<

I dunno, David. That's why I asked. My ex used to look at porn. Would've been fine with me if we'd done it together, it was the secrecy and then the continued action after promising to do that kind of thing WITH me instead of behind my back that bothered me more than anything. I'm not talking about online chats or anything personal involving real live other folks, but movies, erotica, magazines and online ADULT pics....

(((((Y'ALL))))) Thank you sooooo much!!!! I can't even begin to tell you how scary it is to think about putting yourself out there like this. It was very scary, but also something I've wanted to do. It's what I've been trying to do as Belle on the boards, but this is a whole different arena and hopefully one that will relate to and touch folks that maybe the online writings don't. It's the most horrific feeling to have it posted and then to wonder if anyone is going to listen and then, if they do, what do they think? Does it help? Do I just sound like a blubbering idiot.... all kinds of things go through your mind. To see your posts really means more than you can imagine. :) I burned copies of all the interviews - Chas and Rascal's intermission for family still on dialup and those luddites I'm related to. If someone wants copies just PM me with snail mail info. I'll gladly ship 'em out. And, WD, I'd be very upset if our relationship changed....don't you dare start being nice to me. ;)