Belle

Prophecy fulfilled, eh, Dove? How many folks got to hear it and didn't see it? I doubt I would have believed it given the source of the information. :unsure: But still, it IS interesting to note. I didn't hear of POP or anything negative about TWI till finding WayDale, though....

I think gambling is expecting TWI to take care of you in your older years....

Yeah, but it's two different "classes", so that means the pressure's going to be on to attend both of them. I wonder what all those costs include....I'll bet it doesn't include snacks and hotel rooms...

True, Mo. I vividly remember listening to craig when he was on that tape saying that he was stepping down as president and thinking - geeze, he doesn't sound the least bit sorry about it - he sounds mad, angry and annoyed at the whole situation - in fact - he used the words annoying situation. Like it was going to all blow over and everyone would be kissing his ring and licking his boots again soon. :blink: I, respectfully, request that folks NOT respond to the dust mite unless he actually contributes something of value to the discussion, but I think he's valued out already. I'd like to keep the topic on track even if it means it dies a quick death for lack of response.

Sounds like a good idea for a thread, OM - how's about jumping off this one and starting your own with that very question.

OM - don't go throwing pineapples into this salad - stay on topic. THAT'S not the issue and NOT the topic - there's plenty of threads already on here where you can discuss that.

Thank you, BettyBoop, for accepting my apology. It comes sincerely from the bottom of my heart. I remember all too well the paranoia and the horrible feelings and fear that posting on these boards can cause. I apologize for not even considering that even though I was in those shoes for far too long. I do hope you'll stick around and let us get to know you better. :) Now, do you like being BettyBoop? I love the avatar and handle, btw! OR, is there something else you'd like to be called? What kinds of things do you like besides Outlaw Bikers? ;) We can brainstorm with you, if you want.

Actually, OM, you're wrong - as usual.... Where'd I put that "ignore" button???? <_<

Let's stay on topic as OM is want to throw tangents in where he can. Paul is not in any way, shape or form comparable to vee pee or craig. IF one insists on using Paul as the example - vee pee nor craig has exhibited any godly sorrow.... - not according to the example of Paul's life - not according to the teachings from Paul about godly sorrow Looking at Moynihan's teaching I posted excerpts from above - there is absolutely not one iota of evidence that either man repented or expressed godly sorrow for their actions. Craig is still alive, but we have yet to see any of these qualities exhibited in his life. We have yet to hear of any apologies from him to anyone. The point is NOT whether they were born again. The point is not whether they "got right with God" - The point I'm speaking to is exhibiting proper godly sorrow - proper remorse and making amends, which, I believe, the Bible does teach. I think at the very least - TWI doctrine as laid out in Bob Moynihan's article - should be the measuring stick for craig's remorse since those teachings come from him and his leadership and are approved of by craig's cronies at hq. None of those qualities are exhibted by craig - None of them are exhibited by Robert C. Moynihan nor his wife Dottie, for that matter.....but he did write the article.

Come on, are you really that dense, OM???? I didn't say he was RIGHT - I said he THOUGHT he was doing what God would have him do!!! When he learned better - he did better. He was sincere - sincerely wrong - but Paul was always working for God in the best way he knew how. Just like those 9/11 hijackers - they thought they were working for God / Allah - whatever you want to call him. They're wrong, imo, but they were zealous to do what they thought was right. vee pee and craig did worse the better they learned.... They knew what was right and never did it - especially after finding out how much they could get away with and how easy it was to rape the flock. There's a BIG - HUGE difference between Paul and those two predators. To even TRY to compare them is assinine and insane. Do I believe Paul apologized? I don't know, but I can certainly ascertain that he actually repented and changed his ways whereas neither vee pee nor craig would ever be convicted in a court of law for doing so --- just not enough evidence to prove they did. Craig's still alive - he could make amends or at least attempt to, but I don't see it happening.

ALSO, Paul THOUGHT he was working for God - He thought he was doing the Godly thing by getting rid of these "Christians" - his intentions were pure and good and zealous the entire time.....he did horrible things, but those bloody Egyptians were killed in the name of God, too....so was Jezebel and many other folks in the Bible...all killed in the name of God. Not only were vee pee and craiggers aware that what they were doing was wrong - they also KNEW they weren't acting according to any desires of God, whereas the others above thought they were. I don't know if they every repented, but "Loy Craig Martindale" is still alive and his lack of action speaks very loudly to me that he's not remorseful. I could be wrong, but I don't think so. **************** Let's look at it this way - according to TWIt doctrine, then: Let’s see about “godly sorrow” exhibited by craiggers according to his own teachings and doctrine. My comments will be in italics This article written by Bob Moynihan appeared in the September/October 1997 rag. Responding to Confrontation Evidence of Change 2 Cor 7 shows us in very specific ways what worked in the Corinthian believers’ hearts after they received confrontation, thereby providing signposts for us to live and apply today. It is God’s desire and good pleasure for faithful disciples of the household of the one Body to submit themselves to His Word and to one another (Eph 5:21). When that loving respect for God and His Word is lacking in the life of a fellow believer in the household, confrontation is necessary. Confrontation is necessary, yet Dottie merely counseled women raped by Craig and Bob did nothing when different people told him of Craig’s mis-behavior. Craig’s wife and Rosie not only condoned his behavior, but also facilitated it. Poor Craig never got the confrontation he should have… All he had around him were enablers. Another day my wife comes home from the store with a brand new set of curtains for every single window in the home. She spends so much money that it exceeds our budgeted amount for the year. I am responsible for the finances and so I don’t ignore this situation just because “I don’t want to have a fight”. I speak up. So, they will speak up about placing a picture of David Letterman in the living room and about spending money on curtains, but they say NOTHING about Craig raping women?? Hmm…..what kind of priorities do the TWIt leadership have?? Whenever situations are confronted within the household, …. we must work together in order to see the harmonious functioning of the one Body. Some confrontations are handled simply on a day-by-day basis….. Other matters are deep-rooted old-man habits which require intense, passionate attention and radical change. It is these more difficult situations that require the believer who needs to change and the individual(s) confronting him to have a standard used to measure that change has taken place. Confrontation is a vital part of presenting every believer perfect in Christ. When confronted, how does this person know whether he or she is making progress and properly responding to the confrontation? After confronting a situation, what signposts should the confronting believer look for when following up with the confronted individual? 2 Cor 7 has a section on “godly sorryow” which gives us the characteristics and attitudes that should be evident in people’s lives if they are committed to change. 2 Cor 7:7 And not by his (Titus’s) coming only, but by the consolation (paraklesis)[also] wherewith he was comforted (parakaleo) in [by] you, when he told us your earnest desire, your mourning [lamenting], your fervent mind [zeal, fervor] toward me [to “us” in Aramaic]; so that I rejoiced the more. The heart and manner of response of the one confronted is vital. … When Titus reported back to Paul, he relayed their earnest desire, their mourning and their fervent mind toward Paul and the other apostles. These were the elements of response Paul and Titus were looking for so Paul rejoiced at seeing this response. Has Craig demonstrated earnest desire, mourning and a fervent mind toward the Allens and Ms Parker for confronting him? Has he shown earnest respect and desire to those who were kicked out of TWI for confronting him? Has he communicated any mourning beyond being so doped up on prescription drugs that he appears that way? Besides that, have the Moynihans expressed any of these things for allowing these kinds of destruction of people’s lives to go on despite being confronted on it? “Earnest desire” indicates the Corinthian believers’ desire to have full sharing fellowship with Paul…. The Corinthian believers were not purposefully avoiding Paul and his leadership, oversight and direction. On the contrary, they were greatly longing to be with him physically and desired that their thinking, speech and actions would show their association with him. “Mourning” indicates the Corinthians were lamenting their wrongs and errors or their mistakes. They expressed a genuine remorse and grief regarding those things Paul confronted them on. “Fervent mind” is from the Greek word zealos. ….demonstrating… a passion toward Paul and the other apostles. Rather than holding on to their hurt feelings, justifying their error, and complaining about how they were confronted. These Corinthians had a passion for the truth that Paul represented and spoke. Seems to me this whole section is like they were worshipping Paul and not God. But, still if we’re going to evaluate Craig’s true “godly sorrow” as taught by TWI, this is the kind of action we should be able to document, no? It’s what Bob, Craig and others used as signposts and documented proof that someone wasn’t sorry and should be M&A *********** Comments from others: "The heart and manner of response of the one confronted is vital." Isn't God the judge of hearts? Not according to the MOG - nope. If you weren't bawling your eyes out and licking their boots, you were scum. No matter your heart or intent. The other alert that this is twisted is that... What MAN gives a rip what his wife spends on drapes as long as she makes it up to him once those drapes have been pulled? ;) 2 Cor 7:7 shows three elements necessary in the heart of the one confronted: 1) Longing to fully share with the leadership 2) Expressing genuine remorse for the error or mistake 3) Demonstrating zeal toward the leadership All three were vital to bring comfort to Paul. 2 Cor 7:8-9 For though I made you sorry with a letter….I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance… Verse 8 indicates Paul did not regret having confronted and reproved the Corinthians. Instead, he rejoiced that they grieved unto repentance. Repentance is a mental change of principle of motivation due to positive action. The Corinthians changed their minds. Every action is preceeded by a thought. So repentance, changing of their minds, was a vital aspect of their sorrowing. They did not wallow but rather took action by changing their minds and purpose. As a result of their thinking, they also changed their speech and life-styles. This was evident by the fruit produced in their lives. Has Craig changed his mind? Has he changed his purpose, speech and lifestyle? I don’t know – if he’s not out raping women it’s probably because he doesn’t have his wife, Rosie and Ramona pimping for him anymore – just mo, though. We KNOW Bob & Dottie haven’t changed theirs or they wouldn’t still be living off TWIt tit in the UK instead of in the US where they’d much rather be near those grandbabies. Pity the things one does for the love of money…. 2 Cor 7:9 – For ye were made sorry after a godly manner [according to God’s mind and will], that ye might receive damage in nothing. Paul confronted the believers and reproved their inappropriate behavior, speech and thinking in the household so that the believers would suffer no loss or injury! Paul, as the minister of God, was a helper of their joy. 2 Cor 7:10 – For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of, but the sorrow of the world worketh death. Verse 10 reinforces verse 9 by saying that godly sorrow will be evidenced by repentance, a change in behavior, to salvation or wholeness which endures. This is what Rev. Martinpuke has taught us: If we make up our minds to strengthen our lives where we have weakness, we can get so strong there, we need never have weakness in that area of our lives again. I’m curious, think someone who has been sober and involved with AA for ten years would agree with that? Why didn’t Boob and Dootie make up their minds to protect God’s kids from craiggers and the abuse they knew was going on? Why didn’t craiggers himself, Donna and the slimy fox make up their minds to get rid of their weakness? What happened to leading by example? 2 Cor 7:11 - ….ye sorrowed after a godly sort….what carefulness…what clearing of yourselves….indignation…fear…vehement desire….zeal….revenge! ….clear in this matter. This verse shows the aggressive mindset of the Corinthians as they took believing action to restore themselves to alignment and harmony with God and HIS HOUSEHOLD. Looking at all these qualities listed above will help us recognize the characteristics and attitudes indicating that change is actually happening in a person’s life after he has been confronted. “carefulness” is the Greek word “spoude” – diligence, emphasizing no delay or waste of time in putting forth effort in whatever one is doing in his service to the Lord. So, there should be an immediate, eager response by the confronted individual to the end that there is “serious purpose” to correct his error. This is not merely an outward, happy, enthusiastic response. When a person has godly sorry, he responds by finding the scripture that addresses his hneed. Then he speaks, thinks and acts according to the word of God with immediate diligence. The desired changes can take place right away. And even with behavior patterns that may take more time to establish, this immediate, eager response initiates the process. We should not have to strain to see this; it should be evident! Why hasn’t TWI come out and expressed great sorry and immediate zeal to correct all the practical and doctrinal error that they used and allowed to ruin people’s lives? There should have been teachings all over the place about confronting leadership – about not covering for leadership – about being honest to your people – about caring for the flock ----- sooooo many areas TWI should have expressed true godly sorrow and WE SHOULD NOT HAVE TO STRAIN TO SEE THIS; BOB, IT SHOULD BE EVIDENT!! “Clearing of yourselves” is from the Greek word apologia. This word is better translated “an answer of truth in the face of accusation and criticism.” In order for the confronted one to clear himself, he must proclaim what God wills to be spoken, the truth. This requires him to know the word and will of God as it applies to his situation and then to bodly speak and evidence that word in his life. THIS is why I think an apology is necessary. THIS is why I think it’s absolute b.s. to think that that man is sorry one iota for what he did. Even in his taped response about stepping down from the presidency he wasn’t apologetic – it was a “nuisance” to him and he so much as said so. It was one annoying fly in the ointment – there wasn’t even a HINT of remorse…and wasn’t, even later when the lawsuits finally came around and he had to speak… Wouldn’t an answer of truth in the face of accusation and criticism mean that they admit the truth about what they were doing wrong? The believer should be able to re-establish himself in the heart of the Word and the fellowship of the household to the end that he can clearly identify the allure and methods of the adversary by which he was deceived. Further, he should then be able to honestly and openly share how he has applied the Word of God to manifest the deliverance of God and what he has done to maintain his deliverance. Where, again, is GOD in this? I’m to “manifest my own deliverance”? However, we’re talking about remorse and godly sorrow according to TWI – which, we’ve yet to see any of this exhibited by craig, bobby, doottie, donna, rosie nor any of the other cronies… “Indignation” is from the Greek word aganaktesis…physical pain and irritation: hence, vexation, annoyance” Likewise, the confronted believer should have an “attitude” about the adversary and his devices….Operation of the truths and principles taught in our DTA class would replace the voids and weaknesses that allowed the adversary to gain entrance … to the end that he determines never to be beaten in that area again. Where’s the example – the LIVING EXAMPLE for us?? Where’s the evidence that craiggers has done any of this? Craig nor TWI has a single one, do they? Didn’t think so. Posted by: Kevlar2000 Feb 14 2006, 01:12 PM ...2) Expressing genuine remorse for the error or mistake... Why hasn’t TWI come out and expressed great sorry and immediate zeal to correct all the practical and doctrinal error that they used and allowed to ruin people’s lives? To express sorrow and remorse, one usually has acknowledge they did something wrong, and have to be sorry they did it. I don't get the sense they believe they ever did anything wrong.

Mo, I haven't been following the posts of 'he who mut not be named, bur rather ignored', but you're absolutely correct that we were taught that there is a difference between Holy Spirit and holy spirit - God, who is Holy Spirit - gives us holy spirit - the gift. There's the giver and the gift - the gift is not capitalized, but God, Holy Spirit, is. God, who is spirit - is also holy and is HOLY SPIRIT should always be referred to with capital letters H and S because it's God we're talking about. The gift of holy spirit is a gift, not God - even though it's taught that it's "God in Christ in you" - this gift of holy spirit is always lower case. I still have all my syllabi out on the table at home and will be more than happy to provide documentation if it will shut someone up. I doubt we'll be so lucky as to shut them up, but at least we could settle this one of many instances of ignorance on his part.

Sogwap said: Alright, one - I can't stand having craig nor vee pee compared to Paul, but that's the norm so....going with that.... FIRST – Paul thought he was doing God’s bidding by his actions. He was wrong – but he thought he was doing the right thing – vee pee and craiggers knew they were destroying lives and it wasn’t “in the name of God” that they did those things. Where’s Mo with that fruit bowl for this apples, oranges and banana salad? SECOND - Do we KNOW that God didn't have Paul apologize to folks? Do we know that during his travels he didn’t look up folks and spend time with them? Do we know that during Acts 9 that he wasn’t falling all over himself with grief and apologizing and lamenting his actions? Just because the Bible doesn’t say so, doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. THIRD – Acts 9:26 – ff – doncha think there must have been some public remorse declared by Paul when the disciples would have nothing to do with him? Surely Barnabas alone wasn’t able to persuade them to give Paul a chance without there being some sort of “Godly sorrow” exhibited by Paul. FOURTH – Paul spoke openly of his past and that it was wrong – just because the Bible doesn’t record the words, “I’m sorry” doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. FIFTH – How about all those teachings regarding confessing your sins? FIFTH – As kids we’re taught to appologize when we’re wrong. I gladly apologize when I’m wrong – just did this morning, as a matter of fact. Did our parents just make that up, or is it some Biblical principle? SIXTH – Check out Bob Moynihans article I posted on here about Godly sorrow – it’s full of scriptures according to TWIt doctrine about apologizing, getting straight and proper behavior when one has done wrong. Bob and Dottie would do well to practice what they preach, but so would craiggers. Sorry, Sogwap – I disagree with you 100% - craig owes folks apologies and until I hear of him doing that just once, I seriously doubt he has any regrets past being sorry for getting caught and having his power taken from him.

Johniam is right. This group, The Way International, the craig ran is insidious and they watch every post on here, they keep records and files of all the posts on here and have even used them to try to shut people up. They've kicked folks out of the group, caused divorces and ruined lives of people who have been bold enough to post on here. In fact, Craig Martindale is the one who was behind it and started it when a website was started to keep people informed of the lawsuits against him for raping women. I'm afraid your posts may get back to craig and, thereby, ruin any sort of relationship you two may have been building. :( I still wouldn't let him alone with my wife, kids or any other people (men nor women) whom I love and care about.

Wow, Betty, no one is trying to run you off. Maybe a little more information would have helped. *shrug* Ever thought about a "generic" name that would transcend both boards? "BikerBabe" used to post here and that would work on both boards - "Harley Hot Shot" .... I have CRS pretty bad, so having just two screen names and one password makes life a lot easier for me. They don't sound like very good friends....well, they don't sound like friends at all if they are embarrassing you for your thoughts. It could also be the way you write or talk that gives you away....I know when I was posting under another handle in order to expose the evil going on in the way while I was still involved and trying to save my marriage, I would write my post and edit it a million and one times hoping to get my "personality" out of the post....if I couldn't - I'd e-mail what I wanted to say to someone else and let them post it. I'd be more than happy to do that for you, as would many others here, I'm sure. It's important, imo, for us to be able to express our feelings here and I think that's a huge part of the healing process of GSpot (and the former WayDale)....we get to think out loud - we get to tell stories of our lives that we never could dream of telling anyone while we were actually going through it.... Hearing that others thought the same things - went through the same things, etc.... it's more comforting than words can express. Again, folks who do that are NOT friends and they have no reason to know who you are or even comment on it if it isn't to help you - you'll get enough flack from our regular "thorns" here. ;) There's no rule book that says you have to respond to PMs, e-mails, phone calls, etc. - especially if it's folks who are going to just tear you down or make you feel bad for something you expressed and shared from the heart on here. Your post sounded suspicious to me and I'm sorry if I came across too harsh. (I was also typing up old TWIt teaching notes and getting *%^#*ed re-reading how manipulated we were, but it's no excuse for being rude to you.) I suspect that Paw, like others here, have friends that they talk to and express things with instead of having a separate moniker on here. I know I do....If something's very personal, hits too close to home or upsetting for me, I contact someone I'm very close to and it's more likely than not someone from here that I've known for YEARS - even if I've never met them in person..... You can't establish relationships like that if you keep changing your name. I think that's one of the benefits that we don't think about when we choose a screen name and stick with it for a long time. Anyway, please don't leave. Everyone here (well 99% of the folks here ) are an asset to the community and contributes something whether they realize it or not. I'm pretty good at helping friends on other sites to come up with screen names that they like, that fit their personality without giving away their identity. If' you'd like some help, suggestions, or to bounce ideas off someone, please know I'd be delighted to help. And dump those folks who don't care about your feelings and who "spy" on you and make you feel bad for things you post. Life's too short for buggers like that.

Well, Galen, I think we've all pretty much come to the conclusion that you and OM have vastly different experiences with TWI than the other 99.999% of us. Oak, my ex used to pride himself on "studying" the Bible. Funny thing is, studying the Bible as taught in TWI really just mean re-reading the scriptures that they had already read to us, looking up those in the parentheses that were just referred to and writing them in our syllabus. We'd look up the word in the concordance and see that it said what they said it said. We'd "maybe" look up a few other verses using that same word in the same manner for a teaching to show how spiritually adept we were at studying. We'd use our "scripture reference" to see where those verses were used in other TWIt publications. In short - we became very adept at re-packaging what we were taught and teaching it as if it was something new we had come up with. I didn't really study or look very deeply into any scriptures until you and I started corresponding and you helped me with the "epiluo" study, shared with me your work on "the face of the deep" and many other things. I was really "working the word" when Chris Jordan came out with her paper on debt, but I had learned those things from YOU and others here on the board - not from TWI. I was afraid to touch the PFAL thread JBarrax has so kindly preserved and Geek's Top 10 and Raf's awesome threads as well. They were over my head and just too much for me to comprehend.....pity, because if TWI was a true research ministry, I should have been prepared and excited to show them what true research was and how it backed what we were taught. As it is, they were the ones with the true research skills and the results of such research was pretty damaging to TWI. Here's an excerpt from the WayRag Article thread and the "new" WC in-residence training class they have: **** In the fall the students focused on a series of study times called “Ministry Resources Studies” TWI provides resources such as oral teachings and written publications that contain Biblical research and teaching. This research and teaching of God’s word helps people to understand and apply it. During these study times, the in-res WC learn to adeptly utilize these resources to help themselves and others. The students were presented with hypothetical but common situations where they may be called to serve. In searching out word-based solutions, they learn to use the word taught in current STS services and Rag articles, on TWIs website and in our ministry books, publications and oral teachings. One student in the final year of training shares, “The ministry resources study times are not only inspiring to me to dig deeper into the truths we have available right at our fingertips, but they’re also building my confidence in becoming a minister. I have more boldness now in knowing where to go to help people in various life situations. What is even more exciting is that I am building such a healthy word-based habit in my life, and I can help others build it in theirs.” Study hall is also a focused time in the Bible that helps the students build strong study habits. One recent grad writes, “Working in the publications dept at hq allows me to use many of the things I learned in study hall. Each day I believe to help make each publication the best before it goes to print. It’s an exciting adventure, and I work with loving and encouraging people – a team of WC and AC grads. I am thankful for the training that showed me how to build hours of disciplined study into my life in that wonderful Household Commons Library….” ***

Given craig's vehemence and over the top inability to talk about anything else....I mean, come on, those of us who where there....how many times do you remember him talking about something and then - out of left field - we're listening to some tirade about homosexuality?? It was on his mind constantly and that's all he talked about, especially in the last few years..... I think it wasn't a mere dislike for that lifestyle and I think it goes much deeper than his wife being a lesbian....I think the man was psychotic, but I also think there's more to that specific hatred than just the fact that others were gay. I know men who are "uncomfortable" around it and I know men who speak disparaging of it, but craig is the only man, outside of my ex-husband, who I heard mention it with such vehemence. Craig was ALWAYS talking about it.....ALWAYS.....I'll bet the last 100 STS where he taught have some mention of it on them. God knows EVERY class does..... I'm planning to ask my therapist for documentation of studies about this, but in the meantime, I can tell you of first-hand accounts of my gay co-workers and their experiences with lots and lots of men who are publicly vehemently against homosexuality, but then found later in the bathroom at a gay bar wanting some "action" or contacting them through dating websites, etc....there's even a series of websites for "straight" men who want to hook up with a "gay" lover.... I don't know about craig personally, but I'm just saying his actions seem to indicate something more than mere hatred of a different lifestyle.

I agree with Geo, too.... excathedra, I remember those things being posted, but don't have the time or energy to search for them....sowwwy. I have to say, though, that I think his broken demeanor may be attributed to serious levels of prescription drugs, more than genuine remorse. Sorry for getting caught. Sorry for not having his pick of women to rape and abuse. Sorry for not having Dottie Moynihan and others to cover for him. Sorry for having to fix his own meals, wash his own laundry, clean his own toilet..... but not remorse for the lives he destroyed. I'm sorry that I can't feel sorry for the guy. If he was truly sorry, don't you think that, after establishing a relationship of trust with you, he would have come clean or at least expressed some sort of remorse for who he was in his past? I know my Daddy does....he was just very, very authoritarian and a strict perfectionist, but it was out of all the pressure to provide and be a good Daddy and husband at a much younger age than he was ready for. He'll tell people he was an foot when us kids were growing up and then he'll tell you what's more important to him than anything these days is us kids and that he learned his lesson and tries to put the most important things first these days. No need for either to go into details, but I would expect that if he was truly remorseful, he'd at least throw bits out there admitting as much as he was comfortable with. *shrug* Not skeptical of your posts, Freud, just skeptical that craig has any true remorse about his actions. I think he's sorry he's not having his feet kissed and kids praying to him anymore.

Just a thought....have you ever thought about actually contributing to a discussion instead of following Mo around attacking her, her beliefs and pulling her hair? I decided to read your last post because it appeared as though you might actually be having a discussion about the topic at hand....not intelligently (I know better than that), but at least staying on topic instead of spewing your b.s. So much for giving you the benefit of the doubt.....

Revisiting this crap may be why I've been so "confrontational" on the other threads, LAE. :ph34r: Stirs up a lot of emotions, doesn't it? And folks who never were fully engulfed in the TWI II regime wonder why we were so scared to leave, so willing to hand over our last dollar and so friggin elitist.... I'm hoping this will shed some light on the mentality and things that were pounded into our head.....that's just the first page of notes, too....I have a whole friggin notebook of this stuff... <_< Come to think of it....I wonder if those financial things mentioned in this class would help the Peelers any.... I think it's time for a glass of wine, some smooth jazz, loads of candles and a girlie bubble bath tonight.... Maybe I'll be more "longsuffering" in the morning.

Dooj, I'll bring the sammiches....you want egg salad, pimento cheese or these BBQ ribs I've been saving to serve with my fried okra? I put him on ignore after reading his last response...if you can call it a response.....No need to even waste my time any further. :)

They clearly show the control TWI had over people's finances and the very distinct teaching distinguishing "TWI" from the rest of the world...... AC Special Notes: This is from 1997. Eph 6:10 Skimming over the words like (finally, brethren) is wrong – it minimizes the word and is out of fellowship. Don’t mindlessly go through the word, to not keep working,, learning and seeing the vibrancy of the word to grow is at some point out of fellowship and private interpretation I don’t live with immaturity Be strong – imperative and a command addressed to the faithful – expected of the believers at our level….in aramaic it’s the word for prevail. We have to dominate our old man nature/aspects of our personality and habit patterns… Example like “be no deceived” – that’s a command. “evil communications corrupt…” – Adversary 1st and foremost attacks our old man nature. When a person continues to sin there’s devil spirit influence…. 1 Jo 3:8 – longsuffering and patience – the adversary has used to hide behind it. our response to his pleeing to tithe has kept us (TWI) afloat. God allowed to hold things together because we’ve stewarded our $$$ - No reason TWI should be prosperous, Honestly disciple until you are at plurality giving level. When God gives privilege to get deliverance in a category and we go back to the old man, we get left in the dust. Giving….we have to grow up to the point of giving all on our own – not out of compulsion This is one of the keys of “walking by the spirit” covered in the advanced class Getting out of debt doesn’t change your thought patterns – the challenge will be to stay strong once out of debt. Endunamoo – all inclusive, right in the middle of…. Love God – Do his commandments The goal is to get so strong we’re not tempted – use the word and use the household to get that strong. 1 Jo 2 – addressed to this kind of group – those of us exerting power – kratos with an impact my brethren, little children / teknon – terms of endearment, affection and trust – addressed to the faithful, those who have proven themselves because you are strong the more the word opens up to you….you’re doing something with the word. – endeared to God by living the word so more opens up to them – especially the “how” in the spirit realm. Acts 9:19 – who w/to be strong – why we’re not unequally yoked together with unbelievers, like dead headed grads v.22 – we’re to be imitators of Paul so much for being imitators of Jesus Romans 4 The adversary mastered scripture to use against you – he’s a genius at your behavior and can effectively predict your behavior. Like some people master reading body language – if we’re stale in a category, the devil can set up scenarios to get you because you’re so predictable. If you do not increase in strength you will refuse to hear and therefore reach a point of apisita – they don’t want to go any deeper – they just stagger like a drunken man To be strong like Eph 6 you MUST live sanctified…. This is the family vs. the household – we’re the ones living sanctified. In Christ = fundamentals of alignment and harmony, SIT, etc. In the Lord = deeper step of maturity – in commitment – required of the household Zion is “in the Lord” – that’s where we in TWI are That strength is only available “in the Lord” – You can’t be “in the Lord” if you aren’t in the household – TWI Explains that “genuine spiritual suspicion” regarding “smoking out homos” was available to work because it was operated and acted on within the guidelines of “in the Lord” and, therefore, in THE Household – TWI.

Safari, there's pics of Paw in the Gallery that you can reach at the top of the forums. If you pm him, I'm sure he'll tell you his real name.....he has nothing to hide, these things are really said in jest....

It's TWI logic, too, CW... when kids got "unruly" and unmanageable and deserved to be stoned as in OT times, they frequently suggested that the kids be sent to the military or to the "unbelieving" ex-spouse. I say put 'em on the front lines and then let's see how tough they are.....Not the poor TWIt kids who were taught wrong growing up and then blamed for not behaving correctly, but those criminals you mentioned, they are the ones who should be on the front lines....if they can survive, they'll either be rehabilitated from necessity or dead without tax payers having to fork out the dough for it.