Belle

Not NO, but HE11 NO!!! Nada Nilch Nyet Never Not on your life Nope Nothing doing No way No how No sir Not a chance Nix Uh-Uh Not even if he11 freezes over!

(((((Hopefull))))) You are in a very sad predicament. I wish I lived nearby to give you my shoulder and help make you laugh. I can't add any more than what these great posters have already said, but wanted to let you know that I care and that if there is anything I can do, please do let me know.

Ditto Thank you, Frances. :)

Thank you, all! (((((Cool))))) I'm praying for you and your family, friend.

^_^ :P :D :lol: :D :P ^_^

:P :D :lol: :D :P

Dang, Sprawled, I thought it was spelled Idnit. I think some people are just so obnoxious and so "right" that they feel they have to prove it no matter what. I think for some others, it isn't "hounding" per se, but rather (or maybe) frustration with the fact that they don't provide a logical basis for their belief when asked. It's "because vee pee said so" or something so vauge or cliche that there really isn't any "discussion" going on. And, some of those PFAL supporters just flat out refuse to even think of considering that something taught in TWI might actually be wrong. Then again, of course: Any point worth making is worth making over and over and over and over and over.

I hear ya, Sprawled Out. Those are the same things I wrestle with. IF this God is all knowing, all loving, all powerful and everywhere present, then why would he set us up for failure? I mean, that's what it was. Is it like "I'll kick 'em while they're down so I can pick them up and make them love me"? IF this God is all knowing, all loving, all powerful and everywhere present, then why couldn't he create the world with free will, but free will such that there's only positive outcomes and choices to be made? All goodness and light, sort of stuff.... IF he is this huge, wonderful God surely he could have done that. Why does free will have to include ugliness and evil? Besides that.....IF someone uses only the Bible for the basis of their beliefs, then aren't they severly limiting themselves? Kind of like ONLY using TWIt material to study the Bible. I don't have answers and since leaving TWI I actually have MORE questions than I did BEFORE TWI. But I'm also more comfortable with saying, "I don't know" and "What difference does it make?" NOT that this doesn't make a difference - just saying sometimes TWI forced answers where there really isn't any and that these days I'm okay with not knowing some things.

Bramble, she sounds very similar to my great-grandmother, Ma Myrtis. :) Great, strong women who never gave up and just did what they had to do. I haven't ever, Roy, but my aunt does. She said that she helped my grandfather, her Daddy, "cross over" and it was a really neat story.

And I'd give them an A+++++ for how well they raised you, Roy. :) Thank you much for your time that you give to us here. I'm so glad that it was a good birthday and that we all had the chance to tell you how very special you are to us.

I'm lurking. :ph34r: I think TWI's teaching on "to die is gain" was that if Paul were to die, then his next waking moment would be at the resurrection and being face to face with Jesus. As I'm typing it, I'm thinking it doesn't make sense because all that time would be wasted in the grave instead of doing, teaching, ministering on the earth. But, it would make sense if one was to go immediately to heaven when they die. There's a lot here to digest and I do think there's some merit to your observations, Clay and Todd. Dan and Bliss, I always enjoy your input. Dan, you are one awesome dude when it comes to the historical information that is so helpful, especially the Marcionite studies and resources that you're so familiar with. Bliss, I've had more fun learning, reading and studying since leaving TWI than I think I did the whole time I was involved. :) Of course, here, we're allowed to think out loud and to consider such an array of opinions, interpretations and topics that it's boundless whereas we were so limited and chained to TWIt approved topics and resources. I don't like the fighting and do enjoy it when we can disagree civilly and avoid attacking one another or their beliefs, but manage to stay on the topic and keep disagreements to those areas.

Time does fly, doesn't it? I remember my Daddy said he knew he had arrived when he found out that I had actually taken his advice on a situation I had called him about. I imagine it must be pretty dang exciting for a parent to see their child reach yet another rite of passage into adulthood.

Bye, Bye, Paris. Are we good, or what? Apparently the band Fuel has already approached Chris about being their lead singer. I think next to go will be Kat or Elliott. :( It's so hard to see any of them go now that it's getting down to the nitty gritty. And, yes, I do vote! Cingular Text Messaging, Baby - it always goes through. "Resend" is my friend. I vote for both Chris and Taylor.

I'm a summer. :) I can't remember the name of the lady who first started this and wrote the book on it, but she came to speak at Miss. State one year while my mother was working with the Program Advisor. We had her over for dinner the night before her appearance. She was a very nice and kind lady. I was so disappointed in being a summer because I hated pastels and wanted so badly to be a winter with the bold, bright colors. Now I have migrated to pastels without even realizing it.

Thank you, David! I knew I had messed it up somehow, but I have always loved that signature line. :) WN, I did the same thing! Finally, the second day of the Weenie Roast she asked me to pronounce her name correctly. I hadn't even noticed that everyone else was saying it differently. :blink: Of course Shellon is her real name, but it is funny being around folks in person, knowing their "real" names and still calling them by their screen names. It's just how you get to know them and it's so hard to use a different name for 'em.

:P :D :lol: I was fixin' to call you a liar! But with cups like that, I guess you might be telling the truth. :ph34r:

Amen, Jim! BUT, naturally, there are some things you want an instance response for - like agility, rally, flyball, obedience, etc. and just plain good doggie manners, but I suspect that's not what you're talking about. Vixen and I are like a team. We go hiking through the woods quite a bit. She'll go ahead of me checking things out, smelling stuff hear and there, but will only go so far before circling back to see where I am and make eye contact with me. I'll tell her "good girl" and she'll take off again. If she finds a hole she wants to investigate, she'll stand at the entrance and wait for me to nod to her before she'll go in and I never trained or asked her to do that. We do that the whole time we're out and I think when the next Master Earthdog Trial comes up she's gonna kick bu++. I've never, ever, ever hit Vixen, EVER. It's not necessary with positive reinforcement. But with dog training, the dog is always right - it's the human who's got the communication problem. If she messed on the carpet as a puppy, it was my fault for not watching her and paying attention. If she chewed a shoe it was my fault for leaving it where she could get it and/or for not having her bones out. It also takes a great deal of time, patience and repetition. The more time you spend with your dog if you use positive training, the better you two will know each other and respect each other's limitations. There are a lot of things Vixen and I can now communicate with just eye contact or the slightest movement. I would suspect that the time, patience, repetition and positive reinforcement would work with children, but as someone mentioned before - you don't teach children to blindly obey, you want them to grow up to be rational, logical, thinking and mature adults.

Moynihan brags about flicking his kid on the ear when he was growing up. He proudly tells the story of Brian getting his hair cut when he was a toddler. When it was through, Moynihan told Brian to say, "Thank you" to the lady (another WC person). Brian refused. Moynihan "flicked" him on the ear and told him to say "thank you". The poor WC girl had to stand there and couldn't leave until Brian "obeyed" his daddy. They ended up standing there for nearly an hour with Brian getting his ear flicked over and over and over again until he finally said "thank you". Made the WC girl behind on her schedule and late for something (which she probably got reamed for). I don't have kids and I don't pretend to know how to handle them in every situation, but this seems a little outrageous and unnecessary to me. I think with kids, like with life, you have to pick your battles. But in TWI we had to "win" all the time, even if that meant it was at the expense of the children's well-being. :(

That sounds like my kind of church!!

Happy Birthday!

LOVE IT!!!

You and me both, Chas! What's up with that?? No sex and you get to beat 'em? Sounds like my kind of occupation!

That would be a great thread, imo. ;) I remember reading a thread on here about prayer and the next time my ex and I prayed together, I said, "If it's your will...." OMG - You'da thought I had committed a murder or something. I got reamed and railed on and yelled at for at least an hour about that. "What do you mean IF it's His will??? Don't we study the word so we KNOW what his will is?" "Aren't you BELIEVING for him to do those things for us?" "Are you AFRAID he won't?" "Well he sure as he11 isn't with that attitude"

Thanks, Jung. I really appreciate your saying goodbye as well. :) I also missed that book somehow and will definitely see if I can get as good a deal as BOWTWI did on it. Be sure to hit Tom Strange up for a snow cone before you leave. He's carries only the best.

Chris totally rocks!!! I think it's gonna be adios Kat or Paris tonight. Kat's first song was awful. :( Elliott continues to get better and better each week. I still love Taylor. Paris is cute, but she doesn't seem to connect with the audience at all....maybe it's that munchkin voice, Chas.