Belle

THANK YOU TWO SOOOOO MUCH!!! You've both done so much to help so many of us. I imagine there's even more folks you helped that you'll never know about. John was the first person I ever contacted when I was beginning to learn the truths about TWI. Treated me with kid gloves and never once laughed at the intense paranoia I had. Hope, all those phone calls! You helped me SOOOOO much! Thank goodness for that gym membership or I'd have never had an excuse to get out of the house to talk to you. Congrats on your freedom, your sound minds, healthy bodies and truly more abundant life!!

:) Glad to hear he's doing well, Groucho. Thanks! :)

I may not agree with the decision, but I definitely disagree with the government getting involved - especially in this case.

I have a friend who has cancer and she went one round of chemo that made her so sick and, in her case, there's no guarantee that the chemo will even help and even if it prolongs her life a little, she'll still be so sick from the chemo that there really wouldn't be any quality of life for the remainder of her time anyway. She decided to forego the rest of the chemo and just live "balls to the wall till I drop". She's loving life, enjoying every precious moment and not dwelling on how much time she "might" have left. Granted, she's an adult and can decide these things for herself, but it's a reminder to me that modern medicine can do wonderful things, but it's not always the best thing for everyone. I totally agree that it should be decided on a case by case consideration and the son and father seem to have come to terms with and are peaceful with their decision. I really just think the government is getting way too involved in people's personal lives these days. They shouldn't be babysitters. This situation and things like the Terry Shiavo case really get my blood boiling. Some things should just be kept personal and on a personal level.

Awwwww, sweet!! Congrats to Grandma & Paw Paw! Now, when do we get to see pictures of this beautiful bundle? :)

HAPPENING DAY AND A SNOW CONE SINCE TOM AND I MISSED IT! HAPPIEST OF BIRTHDAYS TO YOU, BIKER BABE!!

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, ANDREW!!!! And a hearty hug for his awesome Daddy!!!

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, TOPPERS!!!! I HOPE IT WAS AWESOME!!

I needed that today, Sudo! Thanks!!!

Missed you, Cool!! Glad you're back online!!!

Here's a quote from the teaching Rico Magnelli gave to the WC on Debt after Chris Jordan's research paper mysteriously made it into hands of lots of folks on staff. :unsure: ... it’s not noted in the church epistles that we should tithe. In the epistles, higher concepts take center stage. The sharing of our abundance, plurality giving, those things. Well, you can’t share above and beyond the 10%, your abundance, if you’re not sharing 10% in the first place, it’s not possible. So it’s implied. Remember, the church epistles are grounded and settled on the foundations of the OT scriptures, on Christ and the book of Acts and of course Acts is the church epistles happening. The law or the law assumes like tithing. There assumes that they’re already in operation or are already being done. Or the ten commandments, they’re immutable laws that in principle at least follow through, they’re just assumed that they are being done. Cause and effect. What we sow, we reap. So consequences, just like blessings are not always immediately evident. If nothing else happens when we are disobedient to the word we stand to not earn eternal rewards that we could have earned if we were obeying the word at the time. There’s a spiritual effect for disobedience, we do not earn eternal rewards. For that period of time we are giving up eternal rewards we could have earned during that period of time if we would have remained faithful. Does it remind you of, what you sow you reap? Unrighteous mammon referring to that in which someone trusts, beyond what God says we are to trust; like riches, wealth; it’s talking about money. It’s not that it’s evil, it’s just that it’s unrighteous mammon, it’s not righteous, it’s not what God declares we’re put to our trust in but it’s something people do put their trust in (riches and wealth), financial matters. There is a level of financial maturity and stewardship that corresponds to the level of the word that someone is entrusted with. If therefore he has not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to his trust the true riches? What are the true riches? The true riches are the things of God, spiritual knowledge, understanding. Once someone has been given a degree of the word, God holds them responsible to do it and serve others (and we’re not just talking about leadership here). This is a lesson for everyone. If someone is slothful and slobbingly in their physical carrying of their physical possessions, caring of their physical matters, they’re not usually the deepest person spiritually. They may have intellectual knowledge but that’s just the way it is. God is not going to open up and unfold the great spiritual truths to someone who can’t be trusted to take care of their own things. We may not own the newest, shiniest, brightest thing, but the key is, do we take care of the thing we own? That’s the point. PFAL pg 214 In the book of Acts, which chronicles the rise and expansion of the first century church, the physical needs of the believers are not addressed. Why are thy not addressed? Because the lessons of the schoolmaster were already being heeded, the lessons of the tutor were already taken to heart. They understood the issue of debt and how to identify it and how to manage it and the framework in which it was to be utilized. Who were the about 3000 men that were won on that first day? They were devout men out of every nation. That’s why it starts off in Acts chapter 2 as plurality giving (Acts 2:42-47). It’s not tithing or getting out of debt because the lessons of the law, they were already faithful, those men. If he’s a minister of the word and if there’s evil creeping in, it’s his responsibility to address it. Here’s the logical consequence for unbelief Switches to financial matters here. So, whatever is necessary, whatever is due to that person, that’s what we should give them. If it’s respect for their position or their stand, respect them. If it’s honor for their position or their stand, that’s what we should do, we should honor them. If it’s financial matters, we should support them financially (double honors – means both the respect and the financial support). Even in the OT there was a relationship between those two. There was the service of the Levites and there was the appropriate response of the people, the tenth. So the tithe was to be brought to the overseers who then utilized it properly.

LOL! Well, now I'm an ENFP. :) Does that mean I'm still in recovery or that I've overcome? An ENFP is certainly NOT cut out for the cult life! They ... are a major asset in brainstorming sessions. Followthrough tends to be a problem, however; they tend to get bored quickly, especially if a newer, more interesting project comes along. They also tend to be procrastinators, both about meeting hard deadlines and about performing any small, uninteresting tasks that they've been assigned. ENFPs hate bureaucracy, both in principle and in practice; they will always make a point of launching one of their crusades against some aspect of it. Close enough is satisfactory to the ENFP, which may unnerve more precise thinking types I'm Sanguine Choleric on the other one. A la prochaine, you only sound flighty to the OCD anally retentive mini-mog's. ;) Sounds like we have a lot in common and that is the total antithesis of what TWI tried to make us into. I know I felt like I was ignorant, irresponsible and would be able to learn and benefit from the structure of TWI. Little did I realize that the "structure" consisted of those metal bars you talked about. As Popeye says, "I am what I yam" and I'm learning to like that person. Warts, procrastination, spontaniety, sloppiness and all.... Would that TWI would have embraced the uniqueness and special talents, gifts, views and personalities all of us bring to the table.

List of Teaching Tapes I'm looking to see if I have any transcriptions of these tapes. I'm sure the non-existent policy must be mentioned in one, if not all, of these.

Ahhh, babysitting. I babysat the Brooks' kids and that wasn't enough for them - I also had to clean their friggin' house, put away laundry and scoured their palatial bathroom with nary a thank you. I remember being "reproved" for using notebook paper and a clipboard for my teaching notes instead of 3x5 cards. Teaching notes were to always be on 3x5 cards. Were the broken mints for the teacher a written policy?

Don't those things fall within the RICO statutes as being valid for a class action lawsuit? Goey's Summary of the RICO Statutes

I've been looking through some old threads and found this post by Oakspear. I wonder if it's changed much at all since it was posted in 2002: How about classifying those still "in"? * Those who want to get out, but are stuck in because of family or other committments * Those who are in, but are seriously questioning twi policies to the point of checking out GS or other sites * Those who are in and are just starting to question what is going on * Those who know how screwed up it all is, but don't think there is anywhere else that "The Word" is taught * Those who do not have enough brain cells to register on a postal scale and would not recognize logical thinking if it bit them in the @$$ * long-term Way Corps and clergy who could not get a "real" job if their lives depended on it * People who live in 2 million dollar log cabins

A La, I remember a teaching where craig talked about oppression as being in a submarine with the walls caving in. I sat in that teaching and started crying because that's exactly how I felt. Funny thing is, everyone else, thought I was crying because it was such a "moving" teaching to me and inspring me to be "bolder" in my stand for TWI (not for God). I'm not sure which personality test you took and I can't remember the specific name of the test, but every time I took it before TWI I was an ENTP and by the time I had become entrenched in TWIt doctrine I was an INFJ. Pretty telling. I went from craving and loving interaction and companionship with others to preferring to be by myself or at least invisible if I had to be out in public. I went from looking forward to learning how others think, live and whatnot to judging folks because they weren't interested in TWI and "the more abundant life". I started being unhappy and unsure of TWI and not really all that excited about it when I had "come back" after a 6-month hiatus. I started to see the hipocracy, the verbal abuse of people and the control leaders were exerting over the lives of people. I just plugged along and ended up giving up my own apartment to live with another "believer" and from there got married. During the first six months of our marriage I was starting to feel the bars of that cage strengthening and moving closer together. I was stuck because my ex bought everything TWI taught and demanded of us hook, line and sinker. I felt like the enemy in my own marriage. The longer we were married and the more pressure TWI kept putting on our lives and our time, the more those walls of the submarine were closing in on me. It just got worse once I found WayDale and tried to pry those bars apart and pump air into that submarine from within.

Welcome, Nowgrown!! You're in the right place for healing, understanding and support, but I'm sure you already figured that out. :) Two books that really helped me when I first got out and that I continue to recommend for people is "The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse" and "Rleasing the Bonds: Enabling People to Think for Themselves". Both answered lots of questions and helped heal my heart in so many ways. This is a great place to meet folks and enjoy good conversation. Feel free to move from booth to booth. Sometimes the best conversations take place at the counter and that can be found in the Chat Room. It's real-time, but beware that occasionally there will be a food fight.

The best of times was the spontaneous get-togethers and sitting around chatting after fellowships. That was my first year in TWI and those times became more rare after that first year. The worst of times was when they started planning and forcing times like those spontaneous ones. I remember we would plan parties, game nights, etc. but nobody really wanted to be there and everyone was pretending to be having a good time. It just wasn't so much fun once it was required and you were expected to be there and to have fun - damnit!

TWI had plenty of "policies" that were never written down. Does that mean they didn't exist? Does that mean they weren't enforced? Does that mean we're liars for calling them policies? I've haggled over words and definitions of words enough in the 10 years I was involved to not really care to do that any more. I may ask what someone means by what they said, but will in no way argue that their perception is wrong. Perception IS reality even if that reality is different from mine. Even if they use words that I, personally, attach a different meaning to. Once I know what they mean, the rest is nitpicking and straining at gnats - just a waste of time. It deflects the actual point and core of the conversation as well as reminds me of the arrogance with which we talked to people when we were involved in TWI. TWI did have a plethora of unwritten policies and some were never even said out right in plain English, they were all "implied" and a new person had to learn to read between the lines if they were to behave "properly" according to TWIt rules. Which ones can you recall? - No mortgages - sure they wouldn't let people in debt take classes, etc. but they really did kick people out for not selling their homes. That's not written down anywhere, but it was very well known that if you didn't get rid of that mortgage, you were going to eventually be kicked out and slandered. - In your seats and ready to go 10 minutes before any meeting, fellowship, etc. - Use the "correct" language - Happy Household Holiday, Resurrection Sunday, Blessed Eggs, Pot Bless, devil spirits. Not using: hope, lucky, fortunate, Christmas, Easter.... - Do not wear angel pins, Buddahs, crosses, Ankhs..... - Do not waste time making friends with people who do not want to "take the class" - Do not ever miss a fellowship unless you're dying. - Do not ever question leadership. - Do not ever share something you learned in your own study that contradicts what TWI teaches. - Do not ever turn down an "opportunity" to host a TWIt event in your home. - Always take another TWIt with you where ever you go. - Always write an "I'm so blessed" letter after a big meeting, momentous celebration, class, etc. - Always have a card to present to the class coordinators. - Always provide an itinerary when you are leaving town and be sure to include all known details of your trip. - Always be available to help scour, clean and move top leadership. - NEVER expect top leadership to help you in any way - especially not when you are moving. - Always be prepared to clean every meeting location, no matter how clean it already is. - Never complain about the sound quality of the phone hook-ups and having to go to them because of the tape you will be receiving in a few days of the same information. Which ones can YOU remember?

Ya know, I never attended a ROA, but hearing people talk about it when I was involved and reading about it on WayDale and talking about it over coffee here at the Cafe, I am so glad that I never did go to one. Nevermind the fact that the first year I was really involved was the last year of the ROA. If I had gone to one, I'm quite sure that I would have been hanging out with the kids and teaching them how to best hide their indescretions. I was a youngster myself being in my early 20's and was as rebellious as Georgio has described, but being a wee bit older, I had figured out what worked and what didn't regarding staying out of trouble. So, something I've never understood...... What made the WOW burgers that darn good?

Sounds like the Blues Festival I went to every summer during my high school and college days, MStar! One year was sooooo muddy that all of us just gave up trying to keep clean and sat in the mud enjoying the music. Me and my friends were frequently the only white people there, pity. But everyone was colorblind at those festivals and KOOL always had a booth giving away free cigarettes.

I have it. :) Just haven't gotten to it yet. I THINK I have posted on it before, but can't remember. I DO know I've sent copies of it to not a few lawyers and others considering lawsuits for various reasons. It's with my stash at the office, though.

I transcribed many, many STS teachings and posted paraphrased versions on here and on WayDale. Perhaps there's some still left in the archives? Of course, they would have been posted under another name. ;)

Nandon, When I first left TWI and got divorced, I had awful dream after awful dream. Some of them I had repeatedly and it was extremely disturbing. I started looking into dream analysis and found that they are higly symbolic and not necessarily indicative of that particular person or situation. Just one example: I constantly had dreams about going to the bathroom and/or TRYING to be alone in a bathroom, trying to find a bathroom, all kinds of those things.... Supposedly that is symbolic of dumping beliefs, thoughts, something from our lives. I'd say I was dumping quite a bit of garbage from my life at that time. Once I started getting comfortable with that and having fun with all the analysis and learning I was doing in my overcoming TWIt brain and dealing with the divorce, those dreams went away. I have a friend who does dream interpretation and has been very good and very helpful to me. If you want more information, please feel free to contact me via pms or e-mail, I think you have my e-mail. :)