Belle

Abigail, I have that happen. What I have found that works for me is to take a break. Read a trashy novel, a fantasy story or just something totally for fun. A book I LOVE to read is "The Eight" by Catherine Neville. It's fun, flips back and forth between modern times, ancient times, midieval times, the French Revolution, etc. I've read it probably five times and never tire of it. Another selection that's light, funny and good for giggles is anything by Janet Evonovich or Sue Grafton - they can be read in a day and are no-brainers. If you still want to stay in the "scholastic" area - try reading "The Four Agreements" by Ruiz. It's awesome and he combines Toletic (?) philoosphy with Judaistic philosophy, I think. I've read it once, plan to read it again and am now reading his book on Knowledge and have the companion "workbook" to "The Four Agreements". I think, though, it's good to take a break - kind of like vacations refresh us - so does some silly time away from the seriousness and intellectual energy all these things we're interested in require of us. I've also started spending more time more consistently playing frisbee with Vixen and doing "fun" stuff with her instead of actual "training". It's been good for both of us. The same thing, I think, works for us.

Thank you! I may invite him over here - to the doctrinal area anyway. This is the latest on our discussion. I just really feel for this kid - and YES, he is CHILD: ---------- belle wrote -------- I was in a group who thinks like you do for over 10 years and was miserable, never living up to expectations and developed some serious problems while involved with them. That's performance based religion and, ya know, Jesus Christ is the only perfect man who walked the face of the earth. My own earthly Daddy doesn't put the stress, rules and regulations on me as your God does. He also doesn't expect me to be perfect. Love (1 Cor 13) is how I choose to live - and that's the law that Jesus left us with. That's what I prefer to live and life is so much sweeter, healthier and abundant living that way. I feel for you, Eyes, it's how my ex sees the world (black & white). He's still miserable and attempting to jump through all the hoops he imagines God wants us to. It's a pitiful, pathetic existence and definitely NOT the Eph 3:20 God wishes for us. ;) I hope you'll see it that way some day so that you can be peaceful, have fun and really and truly enjoy life without having to spend so much energy straining at gnats. ;) ---------- eyesofice wrote -------- I agree with you that Christ is the only perfect human who ever lived. Expecting perfection when it is impossible is completely illogical, which is exactly why I don't expect perfection. I aim for perfection, that way I'll arrive as close to it as I possibly can. Consider this: aiming for anything less than perfection means you are automatically allowing yourself some sin without trying to overcome it, which is sinful in itself. I am sorry to hear that you developed problems while spending time with your group. You said that one reason why you were miserable was because you were never living up to expectations. Were they too high? If anyone expected you to be perfect (including yourself), you need to realize that it's impossible and expecting it is illogical. The world is black and white, morally speaking. Sometimes we aren't sure whether something is black or white, so we think of it as grey. Other times we simply are decieved and see something that is black as white, or white as black. Sometimes we know full well something is wrong but choose to do it anyway, and sometimes we don't even feel guilty afterwards because we're so accustomed to doing wrong. It's important to listen to God and stay well in tune with your conscience in order to avoid morally wrong decisions and make good ones, to the very best of our ability. I have 2 questions: ***Who exactly are you referring to when you say "my own earthly Daddy"? ***Why did you say "your God"? I thought we were talking about the same God, the God of Abraham, the God who's Son is Jesus Christ? ***Why do you think my existence is pitiful and pathetic? I will never have peace, sweetness, pleasure, enjoyment or happiness. Not in this life. "Blessed are those who suffer for doing what is right. The kingdom of heaven belongs to them." When my soul is in Heaven, I will look down with relief at my cold, rotting carcass as it sinks face first into dirt.

Tom, I think he posts to get attention and because he's so miserable he can't stand to see others with answers and having the truly "more abundant life" WITHOUT TWI that we were promised BY TWI. ;) I also pity him because he, of all people, must be most miserable. He tries so hard to justify the things of TWI and the abuses, maybe he was actually very involved with and responsible FOR those abuses and to acknowledge those things makes him responsible FOR them and that would mean that he's less than perfect - so it's easier to blame the rest of us for NOT being perfect like him than to face up to things that are wrong and, God forbid, to apologize for being imperfect and making mistakes. To hear OM tell it, TWI NEVER did anything wrong and HE never did anything wrong. If we are hurt, in pain, remoseful, confused, in ill health, have terrible, awful scars, it's all our fault for not being perfect like he and TWI. I hope people get to read this before it gets censored and deleted. :)

Thanks you two! I can't tell you how much I appreciate this! I've gotten to know this guy a bit through the site and feel soo sorry for him! He's so legalistic and intent on living "right by God" that he reminds me of my ex in so many ways. My poor ex was told by the priest in his Catholic upbringing that if he said enough Hail Marys during his lifetime he'd go straight to heaven. He spent every waking minute (even at red lights) saying all the Hail Marys he could hoping to say enough to make it to heaven. There's a deep seated fear there that he won't/can't see.... Here's his response to your posts. :( ---------- e wrote -------- Hmmm... that sounds like something Satan would say. "Do you really WANT to be burdened by so many rules and regulations?" God puts rules in place to make us happy. Without them our world would be total chaos, death and destruction everywhere. Does that sound happy to you? Your examples from Genesis and Deuteronomy both discuss the law about being obliged to have kids with your brother's wife if he dies, so his name survives. They do not speak directly about birth control in a marriage to prevent too many kids. BTW, that law about being forced to marry your dead brother's wife and have kids is a good example of some of the Old Testament laws that no longer apply. Protestant churches continue to stray farther and farther from God, and change rules to suit their own desires. I don't want any part in that, I'm sticking to what I know is right. I'm not going to Hell. Modern society is very selfish, materialistic and shallow relative to earlier times. It's also reached an unprecedented level of sexual obsession. Sex is the equivalent of God in medieval times. Nobody has ever wanted or felt a need for sex as much as they do today, and I fear that eventually it will be impossible for most people to have chastity without insanity. Do not decieve yourself so you can enjoy things that are wrong and not feel guilt.

I'm gonna most likely be in Jacksonville on Saturday. Anyone else gonna be in the area?

As someone who frequently buys "healthy stuff" with the greatest of intentions...... I'm afraid I HAVE seen this more times than I care to mention. I can also provide a run down on other fruits and veggies and what happens to them if they aren't consumed within a timely manner. :ph34r:

HEY! It's a REAL recipe!! I made the Thanksgiving Turkey in the Bikini one year, too and it was super! I actually prefer garlic and rosemary rubbed under the skin and piled into the cavity, but this does look fun!

DANG! I was hoping the lights had been turned off or something. Oh well! I can dream, can't I?

CHICKEN BREAST RECIPE I saw this picture for a lemon breast chicken that really looked good. 1 whole chicken 1 large lemon, cut into halves Sprig of rosemary Salt and pepper Butter or olive oil Heat oven to 350 degrees Rub butter or oil over skin of chicken until completely coated. Take a knife and separate skin from breast meat. Slide lemon halves under skin with peel side up. Juice from lemon will coat the breast. Season skin of chicken. Place sprig of rosemary inside chicken. Cover and place in oven for 30-45 minutes. Remove cover and continue roasting until juices run clear, basting every 15 minutes. If you've followed these steps, your chicken should look like the picture below. Bon Appetite!

Will do! I don't get pop-ups on it, though. :blink: We need to get you a popup blocker. :)

Oops! As my seestor ex says, "sowwy". Thanks Bluzeman.

Did we miss an announcement from HQ?? Or is it normal to have this many guests online at one time? Hi Mr. Linder! Hi Meister! Hi Rosie! Hi Donna!

Check out Freecycle.com - Cindy! told us about it on here a long time ago and I've seen some pool tables, jacuzzis and unreal things be given away on our local ones! I got a KILLER GENUINE LEATHER chair for my office. In EXCELLENT shape and the darn thing must have weighed 500 lbs. and cost well over $2000 brand new. FREE - All I had to do was come pick it up.

Dan, he did win it for us! Didn't you see "The Patriot"? ;)

LOL! Linda, I feel guilty actually. We've got some of the coolest temperatures in the nation right now except for George up in WA. Somethings so very wrong with that! Even Boston was showing 101 degrees on the weather this morning. Florida is NOT supposed to be cooler than everyone else! :unsure: NOT complaining, mind you - My boss thinks he saves gas by riding with his tailgate on his truck down. The things some people do to save a penny just cracks me up. My neighbor bragged about getting gas for $2/gallon. He neglected to mention that he spent to get there and back than he saved. :blink:

Thank you, Mark! Very thorough and very interesting. Two totally different organizations, for sure!

I've been having a conversation on another board with a young college student (18-21). I'm not sure doctrinally where he comes from, but he's been asking an awful lot of Biblical questions and usually I just give him the verses primary to the topic and what the various beliefs are regarding the topic. This one has me stumped and I asked him if I could post our conversation here to get your input. I'm leaving out parts of my answer that are already common knowledge here. I did give verses to back up my examples and what I was saying. --- e's Original Question --- Fire needs 3 things for it to exist: oxygen, heat and fuel. Without even one of those, it cannot exist. Sex needs 3 things for it to be morally right: love, pleasure and reproduction. It cannot be morally right if even one of those is not there. If you are a pyromaniac and wish to have sex the way God intended it while on fire, you need 6 things (the sexfire hexagon): oxygen, heat, fuel, love, pleasure and reproduction. Without even one of those, you will not be having morally acceptable fiery sex. Agree or disagree? ---------- belle wrote -------- Um, are you saying I can only have sex to reproduce? ;) If I prefer "PRACTICING to reproduce" more than anything else does that makes me immoral? ---------- e wrote -------- Okay, let me explain. My question was very brief. love- the two lovers have sex to bond and because they love eachother, and it's one of the most special kinds of intimacy pleasure- it feels good (orgasms) reproduction- the possibility of reproduction is recognised and accepted; this DOES NOT mean you are only supposed to have sex when you are doing it intentionally to get your wife pregnant, but it does mean that you shouldn't try and stop it, and if a child is conceived you should be ready to become parents... sex creates more people on this Earth ERRRRR...!!! I don't understand how God expects us to enjoy sex AND have a manageable number of kids... I will have to investigate this further ---------- belle wrote -------- It sounds like you're actually pondering birth control and whether or not it is morally wrong. Sex doesn't always end in pregnancy, but, theoretically it *could*. Some of the morality will depend on how literally you take the scriptures. If you look at them as "guidelines" but still providing for free will decisions - or if you look at them as literal rules and legal expectations God has for people. I'm just thinking out loud, and will throw some things out there for consideration, but I'm not exactly sure how you believe, so if I insult you, please know it's not intentional. :) First, during Biblical times it was necessary to have lots of children to have free help on the farm, with the animals, etc. Psalms said that blessed is the man who has his quiver full of kids and that children are an inheritance of the Lord. Proverbs talks about the wife and how she is to be treated: Let thy fountain be blessed: and rejoice with the wife of thy youth. [Let her be as] the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love. Song of Solomon is a total love story including the erotica of the time - it's all about love, lust and pleasure. God gave us orgasms and made sex to be fully pleasurable with all our senses and I can't find anywhere in the Bible where birth control is forbidden. :/ Jesus said that his yoke is easy and his burden is light. Could that be taken to mean that we are allowed to do what we need to do in order to be able to live a peaceable, God-loving life? Some people believe in "Administrations" of the Bible. e.g. ... We are not under the law anymore because Jesus fulfilled the law. .... There are no longer any laws but a) Love God with all your heart soul mind and strength b) Love your neighbor as yourself (Matthew 22) Furthermore, Paul teaches this as well: .... As long as we live our lives to the glory of God, then there is nothing wrong with us enjoying sex purely for pleasure (including with no intention to procreate). It's when we use that liberty to hurt our fellow man or to cause him to stumble in his own walk with God that we err. We also want to keep ourselves from situations where we, personally, stumble in our walk with God. :) ---------- e wrote -------- I could use other arguments, but there's one simple one... Thou shalt not kill. How big is the difference between killing a new human being by getting rid of the zygote after the sperm and egg have met, and preventing their unison when it would have happened had you not intervened? ---------- belle wrote -------- Ahhhh, but THAT's dependent upon when the Bible says life begins. ;) I think there's a big difference between the POTENTIAL for life being created vs. the actual creation of life. ;) It seems as though that type of thinking is straining gnats and swallowing camels with an extremely literal and legalistic perspective. (Matt 23:23-ff) Jesus said that he came that we might have life and have it MORE abundantly (John 10:10) Do you think it's a more abundant life to NOT have sex because you're afraid of getting pregnant and bearing children you can't afford to raise properly? Guilt and suffering aren't from God, it's from legalism and religion. In OT law if a man causes a woman to miscarry, he is only fined. If a man kills, then he is stoned to death. (Exodus 21:22) Jesus is called a "holy thing" until he is born. A fetus is, by some (including in medical terminology), considered an appendage to the mother's body until it breathes on its own. (Luke 1:35) Some use the example of when God gave Adam breath, and then "he became a living soul", not before. (Gen 2:7) Life isn't considered as existing till there is "breath" (Gen 6:17, Gen 7:15, Gen 7:22, Job 33:4, etc) In the medical field, they weigh the baby's lungs to decide if it was stillborn or died at birth. ***************** Another thought: There were abortions when the Bible was written. The Assysians had a law that no abortion was legal, they thought the mother could die, but the fetus should be saved. Women were only important for bearing children. Is it significant that the Bible is silent on the issue of abortion? ************* When that fetus starts moving around it's telling you "I'm alive!" It's when a baby STOPS moving that a woman starts to be concerned that the baby has died in her womb. Why? Because there is no sign of life! So - do we say that a fetus is alive when it starts moving? Or breathing? or when it's merely the "potential" to become a fetus? How does one decide? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ What would you say? How would you/would you have responded?

I want to learn: how to never make a mistake; how to never get fooled; how to never be taken advantage of; how to never be a victim in any way, shape, or form how to be absolutely perfect and always make the right decisions how to never find myself in a situation where I'm in danger how to never miss an opportunity to make the right decision Would that we could ALL be as perfect and smart as some seem to think they are. <_<

There will be no egg throwing on this thread, Dooj!! That's on WhiteDove's Pig thread in open! Yes, thank God people change. Pity it hasn't affected ALL the people who are left in TWI.

(((((WG))))) And I thought I had it bad with all the chores I "got" to do when I babysat. :( Your post reminds me of some other times when they had total disregard for our health.... <_< I think I feel another thread coming on.

(((((Eagle))))) We were all duped and we all thought that we were doing right. :( I've apologized to those I can but the rest are still afraid I'm possessed. Would that more people were as astute as you are. :) TWI would be a lot smaller than it already is.

LOL! That DOES sound like fun, SOGWAP! Probably couldn't get away with that today, though.

Well, after the Holocaust thread, I think we have established that there is at least ONE die hard conspiracy theorist in our midst. I DO have something pertinent to add, but can't do it tonight. :)

I think it's because of his movie about Christ. There was all kinds of hooplah about the movie being anti-semitic and then here he is drunk off his foot, insulting all the Jews in the world. It's like the ultimate hipocracy. Otherwise, it probably wouldn't have been AS much a big deal. But, then again, remember when Wynona Judd's mug shot for her DUI was published all over the country? People LOVE dirty laundry - especially when it's related to the "infallible famous".

Thanks a lot, Bow! Now that song is running through my brain! Lucky I'm sane after all I've been through........ 98 degrees 47 percent humidity I'm sooooo thankful for AC!! (and having the freedom to make it as COLD as I want) If there's any way I can help it - there are two things Belle will NOT be this summer - HOT - HUNGRY