Jbarrax

A Classic!

Terminator: Rise of the Machines?

Those lines sound familiar. I think I've seen these clues before. Can't place the film though...

At one point during the Advanced Class, when VP was talking about revelation, he said. "There are days that go by where I just know everything that's going on!" or words to that effect.

WW was correct. I've bee out of town..had been out of town for five days so I couldn't jump in. Let's pick it up from Hush. :-)

Only the first rap song I ever heard. It was a HUGE hit on campus in the fall of 1979. Rapper's Delight by the Sugar Hill Gang. I'm not a big fan of rap, but this was a fun tune..and it was before "gangsta rap" came along and glorified thuggery. anyway... FREE POST.

haven't seen this one.

That's the beauty of the online community. :-)

Johniam, the artful dodger. Oblivious to logic and reason.

clever clue giving there, WW. :-) Btw, I had to make a change to my initial post. It's "Twelve o'clock news blues", not five o'clock.

Oh, sorry. I'm sittin' on this barstool talkin' like a dam fool, got those twelve o'clock news blues

Interesting post, Twinky. Thanks for the insight! Dreaming a dream isn't speaking in tongues, although if memory serves, Earl Burton made that analogy in the Intermediate class. When God sends someone a dream, it's more akin to word of knowledge or word of wisdom.IMHO. It's a form of revelation. But I guess you could say that Joseph had control of whether or not he was going to speak what God had given him. I still don't quite see that as analagous to being able to speak in tongues, even if it's ill advised; like some Pentecostals do.

Examples please. Where in the OT do you see evidence that people could manifest holy spirit at will regardless of whether it was in accordance with God's will? I may be wrong, but I'd like to see it in print. :-)

D'OH!

Nice analogy. If Genesis if the theme of the entire Bible, the first Scriptures about holy spirit should set the tone for the entire revelation thereof. Unfortunately, there's not much there. Of the first seven uses of the word ruach in Genesis, none of them deals with the phenomenon of God anointing people. All but two reference the spirt of God or the breath of life. Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit(ruach) of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3:6 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool(ruach) of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden. 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also [is] flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. 6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein [is] the breath(ruach)of life, from under heaven; [and] every thing that [is] in the earth shall die. 7:15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein [is] the breath (ruach)of life. 7:22 All in whose nostrils [was] the breath(ruach)of life, of all that [was] in the dry [land], died. 8:1 And God remembered Noah, and every living thing, and all the cattle that [was] with him in the ark: and God made a wind(ruach)to pass over the earth, and the waters asswaged; Perhaps the theme is established in 1:2 by the reference spirit of God. That's a pretty broad theme. All life comes from God who is spirit. There may be different kinds of spirit life, but God gives all of it according to his will. Somewhere in the variations on that theme are where we find the questions concerning the Comforter. :-)

Sorry. Still clueless. :(

Moses had the same thing that Elijah, David and all the Old Testament saints had; holy spirit upon them with limitations. It was a powerful anointing. Moses spoke very clearly of this, as recorded in Numbers chapter 11:25 - 29 And the LORD came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that [was] upon him, and gave [it] unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, [that], when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease. Please note that God gave the elders some of the spirit that was upon Moses. This language implies a limited anointing. None of them had as much as Moses did, nor did their anointing come directly from God. This reinforces the notion of a limited portion. 11:26 But there remained two [of the] men in the camp, the name of the one [was] Eldad, and the name of the other Medad: and the spirit rested upon them; and they [were] of them that were written, but went not out unto the tabernacle: and they prophesied in the camp. 11:27 And there ran a young man, and told Moses, and said, Eldad and Medad do prophesy in the camp. 11:28 And Joshua the son of Nun, the servant of Moses, [one] of his young men, answered and said, My lord Moses, forbid them. 11:29 And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the LORD'S people were prophets, [and] that the LORD would put his spirit upon them! Moses said it was God's will for all his people to be prophets. But obviously, they weren't. So again, this says to me that not everyone in Israel had spirit upon them. It also reinforces the connection between between the anointing of holy spirit and prophesy. Many in Israel loved the Lord God and were honest, upright, decent folks. But they did not have, nor did they manifest holy spirit. Sorry, but that's the way it was before Christ redeemed us. Why do you think we needed a redeemer? The coming and work of Christ rewrote the rules, changed the spiritual landscape. I don't think anyone here has even a partial understanding of the impact and import of the work Christ did. I appreciate that Clay, but I think it misses the point. Have we seen power manifested on the level of that shown by the Old Testament saints? No. But I could also ask, have we seen power manifested on the level of that shown by Peter and Paul after Pentecost? Have any of us seen people healed by the passing shadow of a man of God? No. So comparing the Biblical record to modern life--more accurately, to our limited knowledge of what happens today, since none of us has a comprehensive understanding of what all God's ministers are doing in the world today--is a moot point. The correct comparison is not between us and Solomon, but between Solomon and Paul, between Shadrach and Peter, Abednego and Phillip the Evangelist. That comparison shows us that the Old Testament saints did indeed have an anointing that was limited, as noted above. There is no reference anywhere in the New Testament of God taking spirit from one believer to give it to another. It is always depicted as coming straight from heaven to the believer. And portions are never mentioned. Phillip is not said to have received a portion of the spirit that was upon Peter. God did not take from the spirit that was upon Peter to anoint Cornelius and his household. More importantly to the topic at hand, there is no reference in the Old Testament to a believer being able to manifest holy spirit at will.. They did so according to God's timetable, with God's permission. Attempts to operate as a prophet outside God's will could cause calamity, as seen with Saul, who did so and lost the anointing. (I Samuel, chapter 13). We, on the other hand, can manifest holy spirit at will, even if we do so contrary to the stated will of God! I Corinthians 14 attests to this. That is the definition of amazing grace and cannot be found anywhere in the Old Testament. I respectfully disagree. He did not have eternal life. He had kept the law, but he didn't have eternal life because he had missed the point of the law, which was to lead him to the Messiah. The Messiah stood before him and said "follow me". Instead of sacrificing his worldly wealth to follow the Messiah, the literally man walked back to his earthly possessions. Matthew 19:22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions. Hence the famous proclamation, "And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God!" This touches on a different topic; the convoluted body of Scripture regarding salvation and eternal life. I say convoluted because the NT is split on this topic with lots of Scripture saying salvation is by grace and lots of scripture--including Matthew 19--saying it's by works. So let's set this aside and focus on the Comforter; on the differences between how holy spirit was given and manifested before Christ came and how it was given and manifested after his ascension. God Bless!

Is it agin' the rules to Google it to get the title of a movie you almost remember? :-) Here's what I do remember. Maybe it will make it click for someone else. • It stars Gene Hackman and Denzel Washington (they're the actors who spoke the dialogue above). • It's a submarine drama involving a nuclear crisis and resultant mutiny • The commanding officer is a bigot, but also an excellent officer. • It's NOT the Hunt for Red October, which is the title that comes to mind whenever I think of this film. Anybody know this one?

CMAN, my admittedly traditional understanding of that passage is that Christ was prophesying about the giving of holy spirit that would be available after his Ascension. On Pentecost, the Apostles received holy spirit in a manner unprecedented. Before, it had been given in portions and conditionally. As you know, Elijah received "a double portion" of the spirit that had been on Elijah energizing his ministry. King Saul is said to have lost the anointing of the holy spirit that God had given. Jesus was prophesying that, after his departure, God would give his follower the holy spirit unconditionally and without limits. Which was received and manifested by the Apostles on Pentecost when they spoke in tongues. THAT manifestation, also unheard of prior to that day is the Comfort because it's one that can be produced at will by the believer and it reminds us that we are saved, that Christ is risen, that we have eternal life. That's the comfort. I know your interpretation of the term spirit is much broader than that, so this may not make sense to you. But that's the way I "understand" it, and practice it.

Oh, man. This is one of my favorite movies. I remember the plot, the cast...everything but the friggin' title. :-(

Breakdown by Tom Petty. Great vocals on this one. I love how Petty often uses different vocal styles, almost as if he's impersonating someone. It adds a whimsical element to the song. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIv_MLCfH1Y

So now WordWolf is THE DEVIL? You're pathetic.

It's ZZ Top. My head's in Mississippi. A great blues tune. Sorry, since this is one of their more recent hits, I thought it would be easy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFLqACIj8nc FREE POST.

Thanks for the clarification, WW

I call BULLSHAT on that one. When VP told that story back in the Advanced Class, around 1983 or so, he said he SAW a snowstorm. He claimed that he was about to give up and demanded a sign from God or some such hogwash. He told God that if He could make it snow in July he (VP) would stick with it. He opened his eyes and couldn't even see the gaspumps because the snow was sooooo thick. That's the story we heard. If it was disproved then he was obviously lying. No surprise there. If you still value PFAL, you obviously haven't learned to separate truth from error.