TheEvan

Good, simple answer, raf. I hold the same thing.

I followed the opening lines of your post, 2027, and I think I agree. Biblefan & others. Nothing you offer as "proof" comes close to confirming that people are "born of the wrong seed". Your looking through glasses that got dipped in some seriously tainted tint. Satan has no such power or ability. "in him is the life, and his life was the light of men". Satan cannot impart life. Period. He is not a god, he is a created being. Also teh Way's wacky bible literalism does great damage to perfectly understandable scriptures. And rationaization. And through it you come up with born of the wrong seed, or Wierwiiles unbelieveable exegesis of John 1:1

Biblefan, just for your own edification, you should search around for posts on PFAL's infallibility. There's a guy here who maintains steadfastly that Piffle and other of Wierwille's writings are, like, a new revelation that supercedes the Bible, it's God-breathed, all that. Not kidding.

Wierwille was to sound biblical scholarship what Ron Popeil was to classy, subtle marketing

True, WierWord© came out with the athletes thing first. I always theorized he shuffled it to the Kreig to help lend the guy some Legitimacy™. We had a sham of a Korps© meeting where we, the (oh so) rank & file could argue the points. We thought & were told we would "discuss" it from the Word™. Riiiiight. As alfa & I know too well, Wierwille angrily shouted down the few of us who expressed concerns about the doctrine. Wierwille said "we'll discuss it from the Word™" Wierwille meant "you'll find stuff that backs this up". As usual, of course. Ask anybody who was on his "Research Team"©

So, Biblefan, the fact that we ALL were children of disobedience, what happens there? Guess it's seed, right, and we're all unredeemable.

HAHAHAHAHAHA DMILLER!!!! LOL rOTFL! When I was on staff our purchasing department varied from 7-12. Grossly overstaffed. Always was.

Yep, focusing on doctrine, such as it was, was certainly The Way's way. I find it a pitiful excuse for vital religion. vital religion focuses on Jesus Christ, something The Way assiduously failed to do. Which makes it a false religion, in my book. BTW, have you the remotest shred of evidence that the Devil could get people "born again of the wrong seed"?

Wow, I almost missed this jewel! The bible says a great deal about forgiveness. And much of it differs. What you said is why... Reminds me again how the Way imprint can be so strong. Religion -in-a-box

Surely, dmiller, you admit it is profoundly irrelevant, yes? Just "ax" yourself, what IS relevant about those who were crucified with Christ. Otherwise it becomes an interesting exercise in contemplating your navel.

$35 '70 I got my money's worth as it was taught by Fugit, not W-wierwille. Pretty funny.

Or you could go orthodox on the verse, applying the verse to the individual as opposed to a sweeping statement of dispensations. Meaning, for each of us, before faith came (to us) we were kept under the schoolmaster, subject to its requirements, and falling short of the same, to its dire curses & pronouncements.

Wm. Shakespeare obviously "got it" as witnessed by this: But then I sigh and, with piece of scripture, Tell then that God bids us do good for evil; And thus I clothe my naked villainy With odd old ends stol'n forth of Holy Writ, And seem a saint when most I play the devil. (from Richard III)

johniam, I wouldn't call any of what you listed as a 'key' to walking in the Spirit. 1. Wierwille's teaching on believeing is so wrong as to make it poison. Yes, unusable. 2. The whole deal of not condemning yourself as taught by Wierwille has to be one of the most dangerous teachings of all. Peter & Paul both remained painfully aware of their sins. That was part of their greatness. So, what do I deem so dangerous? In the Way lexicon of practice, if you sinned the WORST thing you could do is compound the problem by condemning yourself, right. Yep. Just put it out of your mind and think about something else. All those warning signs, your inner voice telling you what's really so...all of that is effectively silenced. Leading to massive cognitive dissonance. The point of "beloved if our heart condemn us not then have we confidence toard God" is NOT 'don't condemn yourself' but to REPENT. The POINT, as always, is JESUS. He is the advocate. OUR requirement is repentance and confession. "Don't condemn yourself" effectively silences repentance. It effectively rids one of the need to make things right when one has messed up. Very dangerous. The key to walking by the Spirit, by the way, isn't a key. It's a person, Jesus.

Never saw it. But I knew a number of people who were laid hands on (clothed, mind you) earlier. Also, I understand my Advanced Class may have been the first where VeePee (& perhaps a few others) didn't "lead people into" ministering along the lines of how BG always did it. I never heard of it from the mid 70's on...

Garth, in you eagerness to make your valid point (the wide sweep of persuasions held by that non-monolithic group known as athiest) I fear you do damage to fact...that is that communism mandates non-theism, as Trefor points out. Not that it has worked out that way strictly, but it sure has in the majority sense. Cathilicism is tolerated in Cuba,f'rinstance, but China still actively persecutes their religionists. I have a hard time b'leeving that the majority of athiests here are Ayn Rand style objectivists. (I was, for a time, a Christian Ayn Rand style objectivist myself...now there's a self-contradiction!). johniam: "ANYTHING that tries to forcibly tell you what's right and what's wrong is religion" ________ Man, I don't get this at all. When did Jesus forcibly tell me what is right & wrong? He simply told me. Nothing forcible about it. I'm missing something, right.

Oldies, I'm sure you were missing my erudite take on the subject. You were, weren't you? Well, it's all been said, better than I can (there goes erudite, down the rat-hole), so carry on one & all. Remember, a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump...

snoballer, I'm guessing from your post you may be from the UK. I know that in many European countries it's flat illegal to home school. I'm gratified to hear it's possible where you are. You must be a real pioneer...good o' you.

Glad, that's a beautiful testimony of why so many of us homeschool. Thanks. Hey garth, read my lips :P-->

Garth, you're sure doing a lot of projecting on the home schoolers here. Public school: Money is not the problem. Funding goes up, scores go down. In nearly every school district in the nation. The problem is more down at the roots: disintegration of our culture, and more to the point, the family. I know there is a separatist back-to-the-woods evil gummit not gonna git me element out there who is home schooling. I've not run into any, though. We are the president of a local Christian homeschooling organization. We have 325+ families, representing over 1000 kids. Is this movement a threat to public education? You bet it is. What to do? i'm not sure about that. But I AM sure about how to handle my kids. I waiting for somebody to allege 'lack of socialization' as the big bugaboo of homeschoolers so I can explode that myth...

The Thumbnail view, according to the CoachHoser: Jesus (whose last name is Christ) is born, says a bunch of things we'll skip because they are now irrelevant, and then is crucified....in the middle of...here comes the important part...FOUR GUYS! Then Paul & all them wrote down the real gospel, the meaning of which was utterly lost during their lifetime. And so it remained for all time... UNTIL... An Ohio preacher with a fake doctorate took a break from boffing his secretary and saw snow on gas pumps. AND THUS... we now have the truth™ as it's not been known since way back when©, all yours for a mere $85 ($20 charge for returned checks) Now, pleeeeze enter mah coach, sweeeetie. That should cover the truly relevant points.

HA, Geo. Yeah, OSC storage was a joke. For a long time the ill-fated No-Way, errrr, Snow-Way was kept there. Wonder how many grazillion $ went into THAT crazy thing? Way more than the PigHopper, errrrrrrr, TwigHopper, which f'sure was pushing 100k in cost. To their credit they did some clean-out giveaways. I picked up a neat old tube amp that way. Also just sitting in giveaway was the ultimate iconic/nostalgic trophy: that hideous yellow beaten glass swag lamp featured on the Piffle film set. I picked it up, but thought better of it. I went & got JP to see if he wanted it. At first he said naw, but then he took it. Imagine what that puppy would bring on ebay...

It was the right decision? How? Time proved it the wrong decision after DerVeg changed all classes & sts, etc to VHS, leaving the folks on the field who bought a Betamax hung out to dry. You're right, the people on the field didn't enter his mind. He didn't care. At all.

It was like the imprimateur of this being The Word™ and God's Work© gave us the right to be a-holes to anybody outside our group. We were not at all doing God's Work©, nor was it really The Word™

Steve!, I was in on the Betamax decision. Happily for my conscience I was stumping for VHS. At that time it wasn't clear VHS would be the prevailing consumer technology. All that was clear was that VHS machines were cheaper. Joe C---r of AV argued for Betamax on the grounds of quality...who cares about the consumer machines being cheaper, the Word™ needed the Best© quality. He didn't get that the decision was for the people. Or that the master was a poor quality boring-as-heck 16mm film. I bring this up because that was typical of the inward-looking myopia that governed much decision-making. (Sorry about that one, Hope & John!) Another example was their supreme arrogance in dealing with outsiders. They, of course, were unbelievers. As such, they were imbued with spiritual cooties, weren't fit to breathe our air, and didn't know squat (never mind how many eons they'd been in their business). As I was in Purchasing, this attitude was a daily problem for me. Note that not everybody dealt with vendors in that manner. But the lack of cooperation cost us magillions of dollars. Many of our common practices were downright unethical, but that's okay, they're 'body & soul' (never mind many, or most, of them were professing Christians). When we approached our largest vendors asking them how we could change our practices to make it easier (and cheaper) for them to do business with us, many fell out of their chairs. We found that on many categories we were paying the top possible price, because we were such an unyielding always-right pain to deal with. A little cooperation dropped prices considerably. Dumb arrogant know-it-all idiots!