TheEvan

Smurfette, excellent quote, really wonderful. And great post, thank. Yes, I do think that Way invlovement begs for repentance. And, if possible, to make amends. I've had at least one post-way "conversion" experience. One was a crisis of faith I experienced when I doubted my salvation. I had a week or two of extreme difficulty grappling with this, spending time on my knees, actually crying, walking around with a huge pit in my tummy and feeling quite lost. In the end, I received an assurance I never had before. Before, my doctrine gave me assurance I was saved, cuz my doctrine said that if'n I talked in tongues I was saved. Now I knew on a deeper level. I'm wondering if I were just unsaved before. It's certainly possible. That event changed my life & I'm forever greatful. But in WayThink, "doubting" is, like, negative. It's the best thing that ever happened to me.

Yep, sounds like somebody had a wedding Saurday...

I don't know any of the others, but can you imagine the scintillating energy and excitement that will flow through that joint if the highly colorful and charismatic R. Mittler becomes El Presidente? -->

Allan, if you'd care to engage in a discussion about "saved", "new birth", etc. etc. I think it might be enlightening for everybody. But I'm asking you to go first. And over in Doctrinal, of course. I just don't want to start the discussion unless you really want to have the discussion. But if you do, I'll participate as best I can.

feline I meant killed, as in dead or whatever that Greek word might be. Concordance that

I dispute Wierwille's formula for getting born again. It reveals a fundamental misunderstanding on his favorite formula verse, Rom. 10:9. Show of hands, who really thinks that one day you get the bright idea you're going to , you know, bleeeve. So you do the formula: 1. Confess with your mouth Jesus 2. Bleeeeve in your heart god raised him from the dead. Now you're "saved" glory hallelujah, "born-again" etc. etc. How come not one other passage that speaks of salvation or the new birth mentions "the formula"? Me, I don't think God is nearly so formulaic as He's been made out to be. AND I think the Bible supports my position abundantly. Oops, now I'm going doctrinal. Sorry.

I wonder if the fella gets Reeeeal powered up he could raise some o' those cats he's killed from the dead/sheol/hades/thanatos, you know, there. Lord, that's scary. Those terms just popped up in my head.

Dang I'm impressed And a bit slow

I'm researching diligently, Juan, but I can't seem to find the 'collateral damge' on tres concordi.

Dang, those are too funny! And highly evocative of my experience there. Shhhh.

It's cool, Allan. Most folks who come in here go through stages. A common early stage is to defend the doctrine, our "Father in the Word" etc. Most grow out of this stage, except perhaps oldiesman. Many go through an angry stage. Then you have us Waydale/Greasespot oldtimers who've mellowed. I'm not ****** at all any more. I'm actually thankful for my time in that cult, even though they didn't teach the truth. It's cool.

Read up on it. From a layman's standpoint, Derek Prince has a fairly cogent thing on Baptisms in his book, um, might be called "the spirit-Filled Life" or something. I believe in water baptism in the same sense I believe in practicing communion. The act doesn't confer anything, but the symbolic act, when done with meaning and faith, can be rich in meaning. Not essential for salvation, of course, but taken together, these acts can be a significant thing for a christian. Any more than this & I'll have to go doctrinal on you.

I consider it a mark of growth that I now view my term with Der Veg as part of god's plan for my life. In that I mean He has used it to grow me and prepare me for other things. I was involved in a home school conference recently and picked up the keynote speaker from the airport. In the course of conversation it came out that I had a background in the Cult of Motorcoach. He's had several exwayfers in his ministry. His comment was "you guys are like the canary in the mine". Meaning, we can 'smell' when things are getting manipulative, controlling & cultish before others have any idea. Hey, we've been there.

That ROA that the Leonards came to (I think it was the one after VP died), nobody needed to tell BG to "take a chill pill". Though he often referred to the sin of stealing his work (too often, really) he never allowed himself to name the perpetrators. Ever the gentleman. Once there, LCM had them, in effect, confined to the trailer where they were housed. No matter, people were coming to their door all hours of the day and night for ministering. Think about the implications.

It's NEVER too late to redeem broken relationships, GOIA. Welcome to the 'spot.

Hmmn? Were you saying something?

Rachel, could you email me? enpyle@cox.net

I took it several times & enjoyed having Rev. & Mrs.Leonard as a houseguests for 3 weeks. The seminar is called "The Gifts of the Spirit". It would be a stretch to say that VP got his info from it. But he got a lot from it. It was the original concept for his class, Piffle. By the time you and i took it, it had changed substantially. I enjoyed the leonard class immensely, particularly Leonard himself. I don't agree with everything in it by any means, nevertheless, it's a great and very original piece of work.

We had a VeeP Visit when we were wow's. Well, at least we cleaned up the place, but forgot to remove the scotch bottles from atop the fridge. His eyes widened a bit when he saw all that scotch so I offered him a drink, but he politely declined. Perhaps he had his own snort on the little Winnebago he n Howie (and their traveling love-babe) were traveling in. The whole weird routine got so out of control.

Mom! He's baaaaaaaaaack!

Wow, that is some twisted stuff! VeeP & ForeHead apparently just fabricated all of the 'seed' stuff whole cloth. All the while claiming the Bible as their standard! And with a straight face. scary.

That little china coffee cup that he kept at his desk when teaching corps night or advanced class or the like was, often as not, filled with Drambuie. I know. And wer'e talking morning class.

This doesn't reply to the opening post directly, but in the most general terms let me say: The terms 'body of Christ', 'church', 'household of faith', 'true church of the firstborn', 'bride of Christ', etc. all refer to the same group of people. I bleive the Church consists of all people who trust Christ for salvation. I believe that it includes all present past & future. (Thus the great hymn line "and mystic sweet communion with those who've gone before"). We're going to be together a long time. Best be learning to get along, yes?

I'm one & the same, Jessio. Too funny. You really expressed well the strange unreality going on in VeyVorld.

Toooooo Funny Jessio! :D--> I also like "Moneyhands"