Kit Sober

Chockfull. One awesome thing (among many) about this Greasespot Cafe, is that we are all allowed our opinions. You are allowed yours and I am allowed mine. For my opinion I have no power or anything outside of Christ. WIthout Him I am completely helpless. Geisha: "Leave them" is exactly what we did. Forgiveness is how we complete that "leaving." When forgiveness fills our thoughts and our emotions that are directed towards who we have "left" we can truly "leave". Forgiveness allows us to shake the dust off and move forward without being bound to the torturer. For me it has taken supernatural strength and the power not of mysefl but of the Lord Jesus to want to forgive and to be able to forgive. I find that when and where I forgive I break apart the bondage of oppression and have that peace promised.

Forgiveness isn't about the one who hurt you. Forgiveness is about releasing the life of the Lord Jesus in our own life. Where would Cori Ten Boom be if she had not decided to forgive that murderer who killed her sister and others in the concentration camp? Cori Ten Boom was required by the Lord to forgive the Nazi war criminal, not because he asked for forgiveness but because forgiveness is the nature of the Lord. When The Lord Jesus said, "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do," He issued forgiveness for of us whose sins and griefs tortured him unto death, it was our sins and griefs He bore. When we forgive we are carrying the Lord's presence in the world. Forgiveness is not about the murderers and tortured, it is about the tortured ones. If we are to live and have the life of God released in us, we must forgive. It's an either/or proposition. We either forgive or we live without the Lord. Sid Roth's guest this week, 2/28 to 3/6/11 Brian Adams here has a ministry of delivering people who are bound by unforgiveness. Abuse and cruelty run rampant in twi and in many other places in the world but to refuse to give pays the torturer twice. Once when he physically and mentally abuses and then again when the tortured one refuses to forgive and thereby retains a double punishment. On the glory side of the ledger: To forgive is to take the place of the Lord in the world and the benefits of this is unfathomable.

This was in a devotional I received today from a man who has been in ministry for many years. I generally love what he has to say, and today was no exception.

Thanks Pawtucket.

1) Why do ex-twiers get so adamant on the trinity.........and NOT adultery? In my opinion, the "Trinity" is always an easy issue to keep Christians divided, and adulteryrequires confronting practical and practiced Christianity, which many are loathe to do. Practical Christianity tears down walls of hypocricy and artificial dividing walls. (Adultery does not equal to acting like an adult) 2) Does there need to be solidarity of like-mindedness to enjoy christian fellowship? In my opinion, our solidarity should be with the Lord Jesus Christ and what He said to do (by your fruits you shall be known. Jesus Christ did not demand loyalty to the synagogue, but to the words he spoke. 3) In listening to offshoot teaching tapes/cds......are you "tapped to the root?" I have been listening to Sid Roth (http://www.sidroth.org) and the things that his guests have made available and others. In my opinion, there are so many wonderful things that the Lord is bringing into the earth -- and it's not to any one particular group of people other than that selfl-defined "group" of those who hunger and thirst after righteousness. There is just so much goodness of the Lord He is making available. This week I was listening to David Allen on Sid Roth's "It's Supernatural" show (can hear it online. I don't have tv anymore). David Allen was teaching about translating from place to place and how we are going to need to be able to do it more and more in the days ahead. I'm going to be working on this one to see if I can get my mpg on my car up because I have SUV and it doesn't get good gas mileage. I just think that God is still into us for fun, but there are lots of other of His children who are out there to play with and have fun with getting to know the Good Lord more and more. Sid Roth also has had some wonderful teachings on speaking in tongues, and the benefits, and multiple people who have spoken in tongues and have had it understood by those who heard. Not just a long-time-ago-I-heard-of-this-happening-in-a-foreign-country stuff but Sid Roth's partner/supporter on the tv show did this for her mom. Others also who make the whole walking in supernatural love and grace right now reality. :) The people I see practice the Christianity they preach. Last nite on the "Billy Graham Classics" (TBN also available on pc) I was just hungry to hear that good old story, Jesus Christ the same yesterday today and forever, He died to save you from the fires of hell, and there in the Pittsburgh PA three rivers stadium (which was torn down in 2001), Billy Graham spoke the timeless words he is famous for holding fast. ps. Enjoying other Christians other than twi ones is what got me into trouble with twi years ago and still does with many people in and out of twi. Twi is not the only bunch that likes a closed circle of friends.

Many have documented in various threads examples of plagiarism we have known by vp: JE Stiles, BG Leonard, Norman Vincent Peale, Billy Graham, etc. etc. in addition to taking credit for the work of the "Research team" when "Jesus Christ our Passover" and other books were published. Plagiarism defined at Dictionary.com: I thought that this topic title, including any links to other threds with examples and/or to the original works themselves, would facilitate future searches for specific examples of plagiarism by vp. What brought this to mind (again) was that Saturday evenings the Billy Graham bunch broadcasts "Billy Graham Classics" on TBN, and last nite they were showing a 1957 Saturday Nite from the the 1957 Billy Graham teaching at Madison Square Garden, NY NY. It was so cool hearing Billy Graham teach the realities and requirements of being born again. He made very strong points of how and why vital to live what the Bible says, to live a Christian life. What so struck me was that Billy Graham was another from whom vp stole mannerisms and "one liners" as well. The Holy Spirit gave strength to BG's teaching as he turned people's hearts to the Lord, and then vp used those same mannerisms and phrases to turn hearts not to the Lord but to vp. When vp insulted these men who spoke for God, he was working to ensure that we would not hear "the originals." Truly, when he said "you should hear it in the original" he was telling the truth. Hearing Billy Graham was so comforting and inspiring because when he spoke he spoke from a trustworthy heart of integrity.

Dear Twinky what was so especially filthy to me was how vp tromped on the feelings of a precious person, Mary Belavitz. And then he made a big deal out of his interpretation (putting "that settles it" before "I believer it"), as though it came straight from the Holy Spirit. Only a pigheaded prick would abuse a precious person like Mary Belavitz to exalt his own ego and then act like he had the support of the Holy Spirit to do so. Mary B was so precious even just thinking about her makes me cry. She was one of those things from twi - knowing her and being able to call her a friend - for which I will ever be thankful. The pfal class had some good doctrine in it, but the problem was that it was stolen (as has been documented plenty of times elsewhere around here and other websites). Because it was stolen material, the Holy Spirit was not present as He had been when the words were brought into the world by JE Stiles, Billy Graham, Norman Vincent Peale, and others whose material was stolen . The Holy Spirit backs up the Truth, gives us understanding and the strength to live, but is not present in stolen material. If we went back to the Bible and our research, with integrity and humility of heart, the Holy Spirit would teach us His stuff. We would bring Holy Spirit in and He could teach us, but vp didn't bring the Holy Spirit around any more than a car thief has the title to the car he stole. First Usage principle was documented by Bullinger and I'm sure others found it, too. It was not part of the "new light" that vp brought into the world. vp's new light was decades of abuse and leechery from God's people.

I am agreeing especially with mstar1. Bible tells us that every man (and i believe it's an inclusive use of the word and includes both men and women) is right in his own eyes. Only one who listens to the Lord and/or cares about the feelings and opinions of others will change what he does for the well being of others (prov 12:15, 16:2, 21:2, etc. etc.)

In the "Intermediate" pfal class vp insulted my friend Mary Belavitz who sent him a placque made and sent by her twi with all their love and prayers. In the class vp held it up and made a big deal out of "It doesn't matter if I believe it." Mary Belavitz is still one of the most kind hearted people on the face of the planet. And she believes what God says. She did then and she still does. vp insulted her on the video of the class. It was the first act of cruelty I could not ignore or pass off.

Thanks for not staying hidden. Congratulations on following the dream of your heart and on seeing success. Keep in touch, if not here, through "exwayvision" or the GSC facebook bunch. I'd love to read your book(s) and believe others also would.

Here is an animal feeding site: http://www.freekibble.com/

Thanks Seth. You are a blessing in the world. Thanks for you integrity of heart which helps keep us honest with who we are and what we truly believe. In hope for many happy days and much success in your new year and for always, Kit Sober

Shellon, Thank you for all the kindness you have brought into our lives. Wish you many happy days for the new year coming up and for always. Thanks, again, Kit Sober

One of vp's favorite tactics was criticizing other Christians. (Too bad we bought into it so easily.) In the middle of a devotional/prayer list I received today was " God Said It I believe it That settles it! And it looked good to me today. I was so glad the bittered arrogance of criticism was not apparent any longer. Today it simply means to me that when I believe what the Good Lord says, it settles into me and like rocks in me gives me stability so I don't get blown about by the howling winds of the adversary.

I had a dear next-door-neighbor friend for 15 years who adamantly would not discuss "religion" but he was a good-acting man. And a couple of weeks before he was going to die he told me how he had gone to confirmation classes with his friend when he was a child and been confirmed in Catholic faith, and then once when I visited him in the hospital he let me pray for him. 15 years it took, but indeed he did make it into heaven. It was so awesome to see the Lord get his heart and life. I look forward to seeing him in heaven.

Congratulations. I am sure your mom and dad cherish their grands!!!

Dear Sunesis, Thanks. Your words reflect my sentiments, on the matter. I must read those books you mentioned,thanks. I have long felt that the justice of God would give people what they longed for -- Separation from God and His ways for those that want that, and for the Lord to be close as our breath for those who yearn for that. Truly the rain on the just and the unjust, the protection in society from wanton evil by social constrains as well as laws and godly placed policemen, social workers, ministers, businesses that give people ways of making a living and contributing to society -- so many people who work to make the world a more godly place and to help others -- as such a place has been Greasespot Cafe --These are all reminders that God loves the world and the people in it and the animals, the trees, the flowers, all of it was created from love. Surely those demons must hate being so constantly reminded of God and His gracious kindness. There was an "It's supernatural" segment I was watching today that included a man's descent into hell, and although the description of people were being tortured there, the demons didn't seem out of place or distraught at all. {I just noticed that when I was writing this response.) Thanks, again, for your words. Kit

vp cut out sin because he wanted a doctrine that woud allow him to be able to do whatever he wanted with impunity. That's a hallmark of hypocricy. Billy Graham to this day can preach against sin (which hurts and destroys the message of Christianity as well as the people directly harmed by it) because he has lived his years in the way he taught. The reason sin is spelled out in the Bible is because it is wrong. Inserting into your timeline the rapes, the stealing, the plagiarism, the phony academic credentials would give it more accuracy. Leave out the commas and periods if you want (which makes reading easier), but don't leave out the disgraceful sins -- the backbiting, the rape, the plagiarism -- which was the mortar of his building and which made every brick weak and crumbling as he built his "edifice" of twi.

I trust that God is good, always, and that His judgment is good and righteous and true altogether. I'm not really worried about vps judgment. I'm looking forward to stuff like seeing this housekeeping lady I worked with, Hannah Pipkin, when I was in Central Supply at Alta Bates Hospital in 1969 who the Lord told me was going to reign as a queen in His heaven. That's what I'm looking forward to seeing. And also seeing Excathedra being given an appropriate throne perhaps by the kind and loving God who is so thankful for the kindness from Him she gives to all of us here at the Greasespot Cafe :)

"Snakes in Suits" deals with the mentality and methods of a psycopath. Their brains are wired missing some pieces most people consider normal. And this difference is a key in their success: (1) They are not hampered by feelings of misgivings or guilt -- they have no compassion or empathy with their victims. And (2) their victims are easily conned because they/we assume the normal feelings, and expect certain normal responses that a psycopath does not feel or respond with. The September/October 2010 Scientific American -Mind Magazine additionally had an intriguing article about psycopaths also and noted that psycopaths have low rehabilitation rates because their minds are not rehabilitatable (is that a word?) They feel no remorse because they have no empathy and cannot "feel" for the victims. This article came out at the same time I was completing the reading adn reporting assignment of "Snakes in Suits" for my work-related required training. (I am an Internal Audit Manager and it's required that we be knowledgeable of people to detect and even better deter fraud, and also to protect ourselves and the integrity of our profession.) You cannot appeal to a psychopath's conscience because he does not have one. Snake oil salesmen may or may not harm someone. He is running a con. "White Collar" is a tv progam (you can also watch on "Hulu") that shows a con artist. A psycopath always hurts people because he cuts accross the basic ethical standard of society. From what I know of vp I would say he was a psycopath. He exhibited no empathy or compassion for anyone. He abused the trust and loyalty of his wife and children as well as the followers of twi who trusted him so. He lied and stole words as plagiarism, and when he taught those words he stole our finances by pretending he was God. I certainly don't know anyone who is better off because of him. As others have noted here in this thread and elsewhere, people were saved by the Holy Spirit in spite of vp's sins and not by vp's goodness and reliance and trus in the Lord. People like Kathryn Kuhlman, Billy Graham and so many others who lived to show the Lord's face in this world did their best to live what they taught. Not so with vp. Many people were able to be found by Jesus Christ in twi and we thought we had a fresh start on life. But the distorted gospel he taught -- distorted primarily because vp plagiarized the Holy Spirit's words given to others and therefore when he spouted the same words they did not have the power or relationship with the Lord that that the words assured us they had. The numbers of people who have been lost to the Holy SPirit becuase of the errors of twi is known to the Lord. I for one stand with those who will be happy to see him reap his just rewards.

I don't think "Snakes in Suits" is off topic at all because vp's wickedness is the subject of this thread. vp was a snake in a suit, and that book helped me in understanding how I had been so misled. Kris Skedgell's book and others also helped. "Snakes in Suits" I was assigned to read by my boss (who is a practicing Christian and who has lifted my hope in the reality and existence of "true Christians" because he is one. There has been so many helpful books and information documented here that have helped me struggle free from the unhealthy mentality I was "trained up" in twi. It still is true that the truth will set you free. And knowing true Christianity and becoming a better Christian lifts the blindfolds that hid what vp was and what he did to people.

Arrogance: I lost so much time not reading and learning from others because of the cult mentality vp so steeped his followers in. I have been recently reading Dr G Amen ("Magnificent Mind at Any Age") and Dr Carolyn Leaf ("Who switched off my brain") who give so much helpful stuff regarding brain function and how we can take control of our brain functions and our lives. Also Dr Robert Hare and others have done some most helpful work in documenting the brain anomalies of psychopaths and how to relate to them when they are encountered, for instance in the work environment ("Snakes in Suits" for one). The cult mentality vp demanded is to denigrate and ridicule others to help ensure his perceived "supremacy." I am sorry for you johniam that you are still stuck with insulting others. There is so much to be gained when "esteeming others higher than yourself" is practiced because one cannot learn without humility. Hypocricy: Billy Graham has lived the words he spoke and wrote. His words are still good to read because of his integrity behind them. The hypocricy of vp is well documented, his plagiarism of Holy Spirit teachings and even the notable quotes. Norman VIncent Peale and Dale Carnegie were good men who lived what they taught and they made the world a better place by their lives and the words they spoke carried spiritual weight. You can go to the Carnegie and Guidepost websites and see the legacy of goodness into the world these men produced by their lives. vp only left an ugly swamp. This Greasespot Cafe has been a helping hand lifting people up and out of that swamp so they are able to get on with their life with the Lord.

Shepherd's Pie Shepherd's pie gets its name from the romantic notion that it was eaten by shepherds in the north of England long ago. My friend Gary LIndstrom who gave me this recipe made it with lamb, keeping the spirit of the idea. When made with beef, this classic casserole is usually called cottage pie in England. Either way...it's good and a one dish meal. Yum! 14 tbsp. butter 2 lbs. lamb shoulder, trimmed and cut into 1⁄2" cubes 2 leeks, white parts only, finely chopped 2 medium carrots, chopped 2 tbsp. flour 1 1⁄2 cups Beef Stock 1 tbsp. worcestershire sauce 1 tbsp. finely chopped rosemary leaves 1 tbsp. finely chopped thyme leaves 1⁄8 tsp. freshly grated nutmeg Salt and freshly ground black pepper 1 1⁄2 cups frozen peas, thawed 3 large russet potatoes (about 2 lbs.), peeled and quartered 1⁄2 cup half-and-half 1. Melt 2 tbsp. of the butter in a large pot over high heat. Add one-third of the lamb and brown on all sides, 4–5 minutes. Using a slotted spoon, transfer lamb to a plate, leaving fat in pot. Repeat process 2 more times, using 2 tbsp. of the butter and one-third of the lamb for each batch. Add leeks and carrots to pot, reduce heat to medium, and cook until softened, scraping up any browned bits, 3–4 minutes. Return lamb and its juices to pot along with flour and cook, stirring frequently, for 1 minute. Whisk in stock, worcestershire, rosemary, thyme, nutmeg, and salt and pepper to taste. Increase heat to medium-high; bring to a boil. Reduce heat to medium-low and simmer, covered, until lamb is tender, about 40 minutes. Uncover pot and simmer, stirring often, until thickened, 35–40 minutes more. Remove from heat, stir in peas, and set aside. 2. Meanwhile, put potatoes into a large pot and cover with salted water; bringto a boil. Reduce heat to medium-low and simmer until tender, 20–25 minutes. Drain and transfer potatoes to a bowl. Add 6 tbsp. of the butter, half-and-half, and salt and pepper to taste; mash smooth with a potato masher. 3. Preheat oven to 375°. Transfer lamb mixture to a 2-quart casserole dish. Top evenly with mashed potatoes, making swirls and whorls with the back of a spoon. Cut remaining 2 tbsp. butter into small cubes; scatter over potatoes. Bake until golden brown and bubbling, about 30 minutes. SERVES 6

I like Forest Gump's mother's definition, "stupid is as stupid does." Wicked is as wicked does.

If you really must go, dear Pawtucket, Could you sell it to someone so that all these things aren't lost? (All those In Memorium and prayer threads -- and just so much stuff)