Thomas Loy Bumgarner

Derek Prince talks about fasting and prayer. I go on Water/juice fast only twice a year:Ash Wednesday and Good Friday for 24 hours only.

MC, also Vic took a sabbatical without either his congragation's nor his denomination's permission. It has also been suggested(but no proof) that Mister Wierwille physically theatened his first congregation(remember what his consistory reprimaned him on tithing and roared verbal threats to them about they were not ordained and to shut the he!! up or out on the streets with major injuries). If you kowtow to his whims, then you were his buddy for life, but rebuke him, and you are dead meat. VPW even threatened his superiors(I think the truth is he was defrocked and striped of ordination/fired and possibly was reprimanded to sign a letter of resignation or go to civil/criminal secular superior court on charges of intimidation and threats of murder). He even considered running as a dark horse for the 1st presidency of the UCC but reconsidered against it. This has been 2nd and 3rd level rumors about his "resignation" from the E&R Church. Possible and pluasible but no confirmed facts to support it.

It has been strongly suggested that Vic's father Ernst was an alcoholic, physically beat VP's mother Emma and children, and raped Lydia and Sevilla(Vic's sisters). So VPW couldn't go beyond what he was taught, ironic?

wing, according to some of the early corp in early 70's, Wierwille's early ordinations were similar to his own ordination from the E&R church, but with great flexibility based on his spin of theology. Eventually it was all improvised and would change from year to year. He added the salt covenant and revelation/prophecy on specific gift ministries. No, I never was Corps nor ordinained. Just relating info from others and digging for truth to TWI.

Ex, sorry about the confusion on my post. VPW ordination rites came from E&R Church Manual Acts of 1947, modified by his personal spin of theology. The classes offered at HQ, Emporia, and Rome City pretended to be similar to most theological seminaries(Old Testament History, New Testament History{Gospels, Acts, Epistles}, Koinne Greek-most denominations require 2 years, Aramaic/Hebrew- many divinity schools require 1 year of study). Outside of Figures of Speech and Orientalisms, other TWI courses were repeat of Seminars/Advanced Class Studies. WC and college division did not teach Church History such as the church Fathers(post apostolic theologians), the Reformation, or any other period including modern; no sacred music courses on hymnody or liturgy/ritual/worship, no pastoral counseling, etc. In most denominations, potential candidates talk with the clergy(Priest/Pastor) about discerning whether they should seek gradute school education then meet with members of local congregational lay board of trustees(council, consistory, vestry, session, deacons) to get their support, then the candidate meets with state level of the denomination called a Professional Preparation Committee/Task Force which regularly meets with candidate from their Senior year in college until just before graduation from seminary. Most denominations require 2 years at the institution, 3rd year as an intern assigned to a local congregation with clergy as mentor. Then 4th and final year return to seminary for final classes and just before graduation meet with synodical/diocesean bishop or moderator/clerk for assignment to first congregation. After graduation, ordination occurs either at annual state convention of clergy or candidate's home congregation. Usually a mixture of pastor's decision/congregation searching because of vacancy/ and bishop/district supertindent requests. The Way Corps was part, JFK's Peace Corp, part Salvation Army, and a lot of Military boot camp blended together. Hope this explains the difference between TWI's ordination and what other Christians do for ordination. Some other denominations, sects, and cults will radically differ as will your mileage. YMMGV. So much for this "sermon". Now please pass the offering plates and horns of plenty until I determine that enough has been raised. LOL!

Back to the original topic. Ordination in TWI was in part based on The Evangelical Synod of North America and German(Swiss) Reformed Manual Acts of Worship 1947, similat to what Lutherans, Episcopalians/Anglicans, Methodists, and Presbyterians were using at that time(More recent materials are similar to ordination rite in Roman Catholic/Eastern Orthodox traditions). In most denominations, potential candidates speak to their pastors/priests and get endorsed by their congregations boards(council/consistory/vestry/session). The candidate usually meets with a Professional Preparation Committee/Task Force of the dioceses or synod(state level of the denomination) while still in college(unless they are searching for another vocation/job), they attend seminary for 2 years, serve interim at a congregation with pastor/priest as mentor, return to institution for final year of classes. Such courses include 1-2 years of Koine Greek including reading New Testament manuscripts, 1 semester or year of Hebrew/Aramaic, Old Testament history, New Testament history, post-biblical church history from Church Fathers, Reformers, Religion in North America, Liturgy, Hymnody, Fine Church Arts, homelitics, heremenetics, counseling, etc. just to name a few. The Way Corps was part Peace Corps, Salvation Army, and military base training./boot camp. So how much was similar to WC and colleges of Emporia and Rome City?

Caveman, I believe healing can occur as a miracle, but also believe that God gives talents and abilities to doctors, nurses, and pharmacists to help in healing.

Proably lies with Rosie and Donna. LOL!

Sunesis, I think Revelation only mentions the tree of life which many theologians believe is Christ himself.

Just a wild guess since I haven't seen it, is it Showtime's The Tudors?(If right, the Doctor scores again and makes a hasty retreat by Tardis).

Yang, are you Asian or is that your moniker so as to not be identified? Obviously you want to join Mike and Oldiesman in derailing this topic about this tragedy, and don't really care at all about this. Do I need to put you on ignore as well?

Caveman, Rosie Fox Rivenbark has been President since September of 2000(?). Rome city was sold to someone developing an athletic facility which was losing money, and he was selling it to anyone interested(maybe TAPS/The American Parapyschological Society aka Ghost Hunters on Scifi channel might want to investigate). They merged Martindale's class on The Way of Abundance and Power with PFAL. They occasionaly spy here on GSC as lurkers and trolls. Outside of that, no else knows nor cares unless 60 minutes, Dateline, Primetime, 20/20, or some news organization investigates. John Juddes, a Missouri Synod Lutheran Pastor might know more info. Maybe we need Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, or someone at Fox News Network to do some digging.

I have now added White Dove to my ignore list. Sorry WD, I thought we had some friendship between us, especially on music. I was going to apologize for including you with Mike and OM, but your attitude shows your immaturity. By the way, Jeno and Bride are correct on worship. It means worthiness, respect, honor, admiration, value, price, reverance, dignity.

Back a couple years OM was starting to act more human but recently has become more mean and cruel which is very disapointing(something in the koolaid I think). Don't worry have permanently blocked him and Mike(haven't heard from Mc what's his name in over a year). Maybe Mike and Oldies ought to audition for a Geico comercial.

Is it House,M.D. ?

The word Chloe was the key, plus "abilities". Thanks for the offer, but I am going to throw this in the air. Anyone else is free to post in my place. Besides I prefer some of the other forums.

Is it Smallville?

I should have not included Rocky's name in my diatribe. Otherwise I am contrite and ask forgiveness. I was wrong to threaten the posters, but felt frustrated. I sank to Craig Martindale's level in my retort. That's how hideous TWI made many of us. Violence directed at anyone even against Victor Paul Wierwille(when he was alive) or Craig Martindale, or even Chris Geer, despite having noble ideas of revenge(to give them a taste of their own medicine) is not true Christian maturity, or having Christ-like love. Again I ask my fellow posters here at Greasespot Cafe to forgive me for this stupid mistake. We now return you to our regular programing.

White Dove, thanks. I want to apologize to all the posters here. I ended up as bad as VPW, CG, and LCM with my outburst of anger. Already wrote to Pawtuckett expressing my shame for immaturity. Tried to be a knight in shining armor. At least I asked for forgiveness, something TWI never did. After hearing Ralph D's interview and what I took as OM's "attack" on Rascal, well that was the final straw that broke the camel's back. BTW, OM, WTH, MIke are now on my ignore button when they post. As I have said many times, I am struggling with my "Cult Addiction" and GSC is like a theraputic AA/NA group. Usually I am calm and not preturbed. .

Threats deleted

Brushstroke, on another thread I mentioned John Juddes, a Missouri Synod (Lutheran) pastor whose website I think is empire7.net would be a good choice to pm about you and Stephanie, and these threads you have particpated. John took PFAL, or Pilaf as some would call it, and is very familar about TWI and the questions you have posed here. He goes beyond what Raf O talked about. Wishing you the best. TLB

I knew Ralph when he was working with college Wows in NC during fall of '75 along with M1%^*y M@@Fn*y(from Fletcher/Arden,NC). I liked Ralph for his wackiness but sometimes serious side. BTW, I did not know he had been national trunk leader. He had been invited by Ted F*rr*ll to join Joyful Noise, but never found out why he turned down that offer. Sorry he and L are divorced. Did they ever have any kids?

Dooj, just checked the site. Lovett's picture makes one wonder if he isn't related to VPW(eerily similar facial features). At least he and his partner actually worked in the "real" world, something Wierwille and Martindale(until his defrockment) never had done in their lives.

If RJ believes in his teaching fine. Actually I have all Bullinger's, Kenyon's, Lamsa's, Erricoo's, Cliffe's, Torrey's, Albert Benjamin Simpson's, Carnegie's, Peale's, Eli Stanley Jones', Schuller's, Smith Wigglesworth's, Lester Sumrall's, etc. works(more than most TWI and offshoots) including Joyce Myers, Joel Osteen, Dennis Benett, Sam Storms, David Ireland, Watchman Nee, 3books from Leonrd's widow and associates, Nicky Gumbel, Neil Anderson, Rick Warren/Thomas Holiday, and so forth that far exceeds any splinter group. However, this is for my own personal study because I have no desire to start my own ministry sharing any of this. This includes about a dozen books on mideastern culture. But I have no hidden agenda for public teaching on any of this. No anger, just sad sympathy, wishing them good "luck" and hope they are happy. I certainly do not have the finale answer to life's questions, leaving that to Jesus Christ and our God, Yahweh Eloiheim Adonai.

R1ck and M@^&h@ live about 6 miles from me in nearby Newton and has informal ties to M!%* and J@^* T0mB*rl!n here in Hickory(they haven't been to fellowship/church when I have attended) and M&J have moved beyond TWI and VPW with their independent house church. At least they will admit using other authors in spoken teachings.