Thomas Loy Bumgarner

right now into Hillsong such as Mighty to Save, From the Inside Out, Hosanna, The Stand, Still, etc. also Don Moen with God is good all the time, My Hiding Place, Rescue, etc.

I re-listened to the podcasts after reading her book. I understand using annonmity(?) for those who were "leaves" at the "twig" level but changing Mrs. Wierwille's first name, Donald's, John Paul's, and Sarah's, Chris Geer's, Craig Martindale's, Walter Cummins', but not Harry's. Also why move Pikes Peak Seminary from Colorado to New Mexico, but not Emporia or Rome City? or Gunnisson? Not consistent. Why change Jim Doop and Steve Heavner? Some of the people are dead and no need to fear recrimination from them. At least Karl was more open in his book and named names. I am not attacking Kristen but had serious questions. She mentions going to Texas towork on a ranch. Why not change the location to protect the innocent. I am sorry she was abused and feel her remorse, but the major characters should have been given their real names. Maybe she just wanted to move on. Unlike Karl's book where the background of The Way is given in detail, Kris' main focus is on the manipulation, deceit, mental and physical abuse. If anyone was devil possesed, it was Wierwille, Geer, Martindale, and the others who sexually seduced her, not Kris(confused and bewildered, yes but not Sataniclly possesed). Wierwille was not an exorcist. Sorry for the long sermon.

This book along with Karl Kahler's The Cult that Snapped gives us an insiders look at TWI. I don't know if Martindale, Geer, Lynn, Cummins, Sarah, John Paul, and others would have threatened a lawsuit if their names had specificly been used or not. It is a shame that Kristen couldn't have used real names in her account like Dopp and Heaver like Karl had in his book for top leadership. I understand about twig and branch leaders and "leaves" being given aliases/psudeonyms to protect the innocent. Still kudos for Kris giving her story and the long road from sexual abuse/predator manipulation/addiction and mind control. My prayers for her continual recovery.

just got the book yesterday. I had no idea that Kris was bi-polar. I was happy that she remarried someone else. What ever happened to her ex? Did he divorce the 2nd woman? Is he still in TWI or 1 of the offshoots? Was he ever prosecuted for abuse? Also why was Dorthea Kipp Wierwille and Donald given aliases, but Harry was not? Also why relocate Pikes Peak from Colorado to New Mexico? Inquiring minds want to know. Finally Kris, if you are reading this, know that I and others here at GSC are always here to listen to you.

sounds like Kenyon,Copeland, Hagin, Smith Wigglesworth, Lester Sumrall, maybe Rufus Mosley, Derek Prince

sickness as in cell regeneration(white blood cells or cancer) makes me think Wierwille was into Science Fiction. Maybe he was The Master from Doctor Who

W@!t*r C^mm!n$ and B#rn!t@ J*$$ along with G@r^ C^rt!$$ would proably back you up on that observation

I was going to say all I want for Christmas is my 2 front teeth

I prefer Thomas. we have been having lows in low teens in Hickory(but the mountains have been in single digits with wind chills 10 degrees or more below zero). Each begins with Jehovah(Yahweh). 1. Jireh= provides 2.Rapha= healing 3.Nissi= protection, banner, canopy 4.Shalom(Salem)= peace 5.Tsidkenu= righteousness 6.Shammah= presence 7.Raah= shepherd .

These are holy grounds, we are walking on holy grounds. Actually in the book The Living Word Speaks, section 3(Fellowship) V!nn!@ F!nn@g@n wrote The 7 Redemptive Names of God.

Wierwille had no training for creating his version of a theological seminary(though he attended 2 such institutions, and no, Pikes Peak does not count). Instead he merged a counterfeit seminary with Peace Corps, Salvation Army, and American military, particularly Marines. His WOW program was based on domestic evangelistic programs such as Jehovah's Witness and the Mormons(plus some Baptists) and Census field workers based on Navigators/Billy Graham Evangelistic Association's Christian Life and Witness Course(also used in Campus Crusaders for Christ and Fellowship of Christian Atheletes)and retitled as Witnessing and Undershepherding(see separate topic forum). His plagarized works were from Norman Vincent Peale, Robert Schuller, Albert Cliffe, Dale Carnegie, Ruben Archer Torrey, Albert Benjamin Simpson, Watchman Nee, certain books by Billy Graham, Oral Roberts, Kenneth Hagin, Kenneth Copeland, Derek Prince, Ethelbert Bullinger, Ezzak William Kenyon, George Lamsa,Stiles, Leonard, etc. We were naive and led by a Satanic counterfeit to genuine Christianity. If only we all were given a second chance and make a different choice.

didn't other clergy like Billy Graham, Oral Roberts, Derek Prince, Ruben Archer Torrey teach this? Also found in Integrity Music's DVD"s You are Holy(Prince of Peace), and This God,He is our God. This is the Integrity Worship Together DVD series.

I got a plane that loops the loop and also a hulahoop. oh sorry, that was the Chipmunk Song. Actually got a number of fast food resturant gift cards and received Christmas cards from family and friends. Also earlier that week snow, sleet, and freezing rain-up to 4 inches or so. Anyway, Happy New Year to all.

:unsure: :blush: :blink: :wacko: :o

In more recent times has been Servant Evangelism by Bill Hybels of Willow Creek Church where Christians are to show compassion such as free car washes, lemonade/ice cream socials(free of cost), sharing water bottles in summer/coffee kiosks for travelers at major traffic/road intersections, mowing grass/raking leaves/snow shoveling driveways without cost. In fact, my church's council now fully fund youth trips and forbids fund raising for such church groups. Now this would have given VPW, LCM, and CG heart attacks. But my 1st post, most of the ingredients were used to entice me with TWI. Unfortunately, a legitimate evangelistic tool was abused to get us involved with this "counterfeit" Christianity.

In addition to "Mary, did you know", I love Michael W. Smith's "Gloria", a rock version of Angels we have heard on high. Also check out my topic on Hymns in which I list Advent and Christmas titles. Secular ones are Up on the housetop, Rudolph the red-nosed reindeer, walking through a winter wonderland, just to name a few.

The 4 chapters of the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association class called Christian Life and Witness Course(for training of couselors for Crusades) are: Effective Christian Life; Victorious Christian Life; Christian's Witness; Follow-up and Care of New Christians(Operation Andrew/Friendship Evangelism). This was originally developed by The Navigators(fishing boat crews).

too bad TWI didn't follow some of those suggestions, or at least continue that way.

is it possible Donnie Fugit might have taken the above mentioed class(Christian Life and Witness) and was familar with Carnegie's book, shared his experiences with Wierwille, and the Vicster adapted it to suit his purposes(PFAL)?

I remember that battle- The Doctor

Cheranne, while Victor Paul Wierwille certainly did not really show compassion to "newbies" (nor did his "Corps"), yet TWI "lovebombed" us with some of the techniques mentioned. Or at least that is how I got involved. But VPW really did not show Christ-like love; rather it was all about him and his "uniqueness"(?), not make Jesus Christ Lord and having authority in our lives. Quote the Bible/Scripture to pretend genuine concern publicly, but bully people in private(especially after they took PFAL and now were in their visor grips). Any other comments on how TWI misused this class from BGEA?

Another class VPW stole was from The Navigators and in turn Billy Graham Evangelistic Association was Christian Life and Witness, a class for BG's crusades and counselors(for those who came for altar calls). Only the last session was on Witnessing/Undershepherding new coverts to Christianity. It was called operation Andrew or Friendship Evangelism. Steps included:visualize the readiness of others to receive Christ; make an initial aqauintance; establish a growing relationship;extend an invitation to your home; cultivate common intersts; be available for those who are hurting; become a giver; find an appropriate "harvest vehicle". Under step 3, ask about job/vocation, hobbies, sports/recreation, family activities/interests, vacations, current news items, pets/personal properties, religious backgrounds, current projects/home improvements, currents books/films/music/ television shows. Under step 8, examples include home Bible studies, church meals, Christian movies, concerts, conferences and retreats, church sports programs, and other church sponsored events.After salavation, continue through local denomination having clergy/pastors and lay people follow through with conversations of encouragement for the rest of their lives on this faith journey. Did TWI's Witnessing and Undershepherding class come even close to this?