Thomas Loy Bumgarner

that last statement is very important, Yes you can interupt the sermon/homily with questions by raising your hand or add comments during or immediately afterwards. Something Leonard, Wierwille, Geer, Martindale, and Hendricks oppossed and objected to, and sorry to say most denominational clergy would not allow(at least not during worship but maybe afterwards possibly in their study/office).

I also had bought Gene Edwards book on organic church, and read articles by Neil Cole about simple church. Some meetings are hymn/praise sings where people chose hymns and praise songs from hymnals or DVD's from Integrity's IWorship with lyrics are used, or someone composes new songs, or Cd's from Marty Haugen, David Haas, Handt Hanson, Lutheran Songs Today(Dakota, Johnathan Rudulman). Some chose to omit music altogether if everyone agrees to that, going into free spontaneous prayer concerns. some people share joys and blessings maybe based on scripture. Other times may have Bible Study on Acts or some epistle, or even(gasp)the gospels. Some House/Home churches do glossalia/speaking in tongues with same person interpreting or some one else. It can be perfect praise and adoration to God and Jesus Christ( most are trinitarians), or prayers about situations/conditions/circumstances unknown to the small group, or like prophecy may be God speaking words of comfort/consolation/ encouragement/exhortation/edification, more like a spiritual hug or embrace by God/Jesus when one or more are hurting. Not all house/home churches do spiritual gifts/manifestations/activations. there is no money offering/tithes/abundant sharing because there is no budget and no one is salaried for full time ministry work(all receive income from secular jobs). Some celebrate Holy Communion/Lord's Supper/Eucharist with a normal meal daily or weekly or monthly or quaterly/semester or once a year, while others divorce this with bread and wine/graper juice only. btw, the Agape meal or Lovefeast really is more like a potluck supper or picnic on the grounds, or simply snacks and refreshments, unlike the Moravian tradition which includes coffee/hot chocolate/spiced tea and some bakery good like Moravian mollasses sugar cookies or cinnamon buns/danish/coffee cake while hymns, choir anthems, instrumental music, prayers, and maybe scripture readings are occuring. Any futher discussion? final thought, during any bible study questions are encouraged(re: to house church).

Haha

OMG, what BS(and that is not Bachelor of Science) :unsure: :blink: talk about stroking one's ego

O good God crash cymbal please

just thought of this song from Bye, bye Birdie(musical parody of Elvis Pressly) with change of words" O Victor Paul, we love you

Eagle, JS may have been a good guy at one time but now he has become egotistical, just like Wierwille, Martindale, Geer, Rivernbark, Hendricks. Schoenheit seemed nice to me when I wrote to him and Glasser, buying their books, the best being One God and One Lord( far better book than JCING)because of better hitorical background than Wierwille. However after firing Mark and Karen, and slowly becoming more paranoid I droped any affliation with S&T with their internal squables.

never took the AC but learned more from Sam Storms, Dennis Bennet, David Ireland(all Whitaker House published books) and yes got a copy of Advanced Class outline/syllabus from a former Wayfer.

yeah, despite attending college and seminary, Wierwille had no background in setting up TWC as a theological seminary/divinity school, instead he conned people thinking WC was more Peace Corps but was Marine Corps/military boot camp(which if a Sgt. or officer physically beats/batters a private, said personnel can be tried by a military tribunal court and/or criminal court, be sent to prison and loose all priviledges). But VPW, CG, and LCM had no authorities above them to reprimand them. Even all the military oppose that strict group think, at least officially(Congress, the President, and the Supreme Court can outlaw such groups if they become a meance to society).

John, have you read viola's books and what is your opinion of him? I listed the 4 books written by him. He seems to cherry pick from John White and Frank Senn's books on worship. and prefers loose networking with other Christians

the posts from Trust and Obey were the other points I was going to mention. Viola's books are Pagan Christianity? the roots of Our Church practices, co-authored with George Barna = Tydale Books; Reimaginging Church: Pursuing the dream of Organic Christianity = David Cook; Finding Organic Church; The Untold story of the New Testament Church = Destiny Image.

I have been reading books by Frank Viola about house/home churches aka simple, organic, NT biblical. His most controversial is Pagan Christianity? roots of our practices. He was a charismatic but opposes denominations, strongly trinitarian, and believes communion should be celebrated within a regular meal instead of seperate event. Any comments? discuss.He beleives church meetings must be small like 5-10 people, independent congregations with no hierarchy/clergy(every Christian is full time ordained pastor/elder but not salaried), no liturgies/rituals, everyone participates as moved by the Holy Spirit(Quaker/Pentecostal). Would VPW have perverted this?

WS said it, I believe it, that settles the whole matter, and God acknowledges it

and people think I live a grand delusion claiming to be a timelord. heck Mstart, I can regenerate whole body parts, and I am The Doctor(not Wierwille) and got mine from the University of Gallifrey in history and astronomy, NOT!

Bwahahahehehoho

this is a bit off topic but i was watching Ernest Angley last night and their trio called Rock of Ages sang a song in a C&W/Bluegrass style but reminded me of the video The Renewed Mind(though that was not the topic) and Angley came on, speaking in a style similar to Wierwille with same type of inflections. Oh, the tape that Nate refered to had Claudette Royal singing and then a song I never heard before called "The Lord's Lullaby". Wonder why that song never got recorded by Way productions. anyway Happy New Year.

VPW used Bullinger's Companion Bible footnotes and apendices for Judas, also if I remember correctly it is talked about in How to Enjoy the Bible

I am surptrised that the consistory gave him an 8 month sabbatical and that the NW Synod of Ohio of the E&R church permited it.

Remember Wierwille was of the German Reformed tradition, not Lutheran or Moravian, or Episcopalian. Also blue is a legitimate alternate color(Spanish/Mozabic, Swedish, and English practices). Oh Merry Christmas, Froeliche Weinachten, Joyeux Noel, Feliz Navidad, and Buon Natali, and a Happy New Year.

can't envision him as Bing Crosby, Fred Asaire,Danny kaye maybe as a clown

He lived in Charlotte for a few years before moving to Indiana, took courses in Greek and Church History. Idk if he graduated or not.

wonder how Wierwille, Geer, Martindale and company felt about Charles Dickens "A Christmas Carol" seeing that they all were Ebeneezer Scrooge

I believe that JS attended Gordon-Conwell campus in Charlotte, NC

yeah, we were taught fear was Satanic and always came from the Devil/Adversary and God wouldn't even hurt a fly. Likewise with anger. Supposedly God reserved that only against Lucifer and not innocent naive human beings. Wierwille inplied we were like animals/pets and that fear and anger were negative. Yep, God was viewed as a harmless nice Alzeimhers patient, almost child like himself. Yet Wierwille, Martindale, Geer, Hendricks, etc. thought it was godly to bully people and throw temper tantrums when people reprimanded them for heresy and immoral behavior. No, they saw themselves equal to God Almighty, why they had God's blessing and permission to act the way they did and they saw no reason to repent. Arrogant SOB's.

here, here